More Effective Player at age 38....

[DocHolliday]

I hate people that claim that Steve Nash is a totally terrible defender. Dude is always in the right spot, he just doesn't body up real good.

He is far from a nuclear meltdown on Defense.


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[x Stinkfist x]

Re: More Effective Player at age 38....

Lets not forget that Jordan at age 39 played better defense than Steve Nash did in his prime. Steve Nash throughout his career was all offense no defense, Jordan played both ways of the game with a good amount of efficiency and the age of 39 while Nash is considered a defensive liability and has been throughout his career. Nash has never finished in the top 50 in steals, never cracked the top 100 in defensive win shares nor placed in the top 350 of defensive rating. May I remind you that Jordan was also playing injured for the majority of his first season with the wizards and still managed to make a team of absolute scrubs win 28 more games than their previous season.

Lets not forget that MJ was also 3-4 inches taller, had far greater wingspan, was a better athlete and he wasn't guarding PG's who are generally the fasest and quickest guys on the court....I guess my main point in this discussion boils down to the Suns offense is Steve Nash, in Washington, MJ was their primary scorer, big difference IMO....You put Nash on the Washington Team and I feel they'd have a better record than the Jordan led club, on the other hand you take that 38 year old Jordan and put him on this Suns team and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be fighting for the playoffs like the Suns are now...And to the guy who said Nash only shoots nine times a game, do you really think if he took 3-5 more shots a game all of a sudden he'd bea a 42-44% shooter? Really....

[x Stinkfist x]

Re: More Effective Player at age 38....

I think the point that was being made is that it's easier to play close to the same level into your late 30's as a PG than a SG/SF. No idea why guys are getting up in arms by using this logic to describe Nash. The example given was pretty clear in showing how it's true for players of any level. It doesn't say a thing about how good of a point guard Nash is (he's one of the best ever), it only speaks on how much easier it is for him to play at HIS high level than it would be for Jordan to play at his.

If we want to talk about marginalizing a player then point the finger at Gortat. You can't just throw a name out there like that... he's playing at an all star level this year. That Wizards team was hot garbage and won 19 games the year before. I don't think there is a comparison to a player that can come back after 4 years off and go to a terrible team like that and have them in the hunt for .500 when being asked to be the main scorer. I don't cry a river for Jordan bc he should've stayed retired. But I also won't act like his role (which is much more physical in nature) is on the same level for a 38 year old as that of an elite PG.

Easier tp play PG as you get older? Hmm I'd disasgree, not to a msjor extent, but I mean look at the guys Nash goes up against on a nightly basis, CP3, D Rose, Westbrook, Rondo, Wall, Deron Williams, Jennings and a few others that from a quickness and speed standpoint Nash shouldn't really compete, let alone dominate, and yes leading the league in assists (or 2nd, it's been varying between him and Rondo) and being the only creator on that team is dominating IMO, the great thing about Nash is he sees the floor setting up so well that I wish the NBA would add the hockey assist to their stats, cause there are so many times when Nash makes the right pass to a guy who Nash knows will swing it one more time for the bucket. Nash may not get the assist, but its things like that that go unnoticed by the casual fan.

[x Stinkfist x]

Re: More Effective Player at age 38....

Matt Barnes?

Their stats/impact won't even comparable at that age ....not sure what you mean, haha

I think the whole point was that both Nash/Jordan at age 38 had solid impacts

Exactly, it was an interesting convo between my friend and I so naturally I thought it would be a good topic here...

[x Stinkfist x]

Re: More Effective Player at age 38....

Not acting like he was sitting around eating Cheetos, but let's not even try to pretend that you can just BE in NBA game shape and ready to play after four years like it ain't a thing.



And so are dudes that sit around not doing **** with themselves during a four month lockout, how does that tend to work out for them? There's one thing being in shape, it's another being in NBA game shape.

Sorry to pop your bubble but very few players today don't have half of MJ's work ethic, ask Tim Grover...And I'm sorry but players in general just have just have different priorities these days, not that I can blame them, young rich and you only live once, but lets not drive this off topic.

[Jukeman]

Exactly, it was an interesting convo between my friend and I so naturally I thought it would be a good topic here...

Sounds like you had an agenda.


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[wwharton]

Re: More Effective Player at age 38....

Lets not forget that MJ was also 3-4 inches taller, had far greater wingspan, was a better athlete and he wasn't guarding PG's who are generally the fasest and quickest guys on the court....I guess my main point in this discussion boils down to the Suns offense is Steve Nash, in Washington, MJ was their primary scorer, big difference IMO....You put Nash on the Washington Team and I feel they'd have a better record than the Jordan led club, on the other hand you take that 38 year old Jordan and put him on this Suns team and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be fighting for the playoffs like the Suns are now...And to the guy who said Nash only shoots nine times a game, do you really think if he took 3-5 more shots a game all of a sudden he'd bea a 42-44% shooter? Really....

So why didn't you say if Jordan was Nash's height, had Nash's wingspan and was only the athlete that Nash is who would we say is more effective at 38?

This post is pretty funny, seriously. For one, Jordan at 38 on today's Suns would most definitely be competing like they are now. One, because they're a solid team and two, bc they have decent coaching. They really don't even compare to the crap the Wizards had back then.. but your agenda is pretty clear here, lol.

I actually only really replied to say the comment about Nash shooting 9 times a game was in no way a knock no his scoring. He's one of the best pure shooters the NBA has ever seen. It was mentioned as another example of how Nash and Jordan's roles are/were drastically different, making any comparison silly.

Easier tp play PG as you get older? Hmm I'd disasgree, not to a msjor extent, but I mean look at the guys Nash goes up against on a nightly basis, CP3, D Rose, Westbrook, Rondo, Wall, Deron Williams, Jennings and a few others that from a quickness and speed standpoint Nash shouldn't really compete, let alone dominate, and yes leading the league in assists (or 2nd, it's been varying between him and Rondo) and being the only creator on that team is dominating IMO, the great thing about Nash is he sees the floor setting up so well that I wish the NBA would add the hockey assist to their stats, cause there are so many times when Nash makes the right pass to a guy who Nash knows will swing it one more time for the bucket. Nash may not get the assist, but its things like that that go unnoticed by the casual fan.

I've played PG and coached basketball the majority of my life and am far from a casual fan. I've got a really good sense of what the aging process takes the biggest toll on, and how Nash's (and many pure PGs) strengths fit perfectly for playing at a high level later in life than other positions. But again, by your last group of posts this was just a thread to say "Hey look how great Nash is playing" and I'd prefer we just talked about that instead of finding a way to compare him to the greatest player we can think of.

[Vaporub83]

Re: More Effective Player at age 38....

I think this an interesting comparison I guess my two cents would be Jordan just because it is a ball handler league now. Remember no hand checking very little physicality. This also plays into Nash's game too. He is a big time finesse better in space kind of player.

As far as field goal percentage goes, only 9 shots diminish the impressiveness of 50% shooting. Less than 3 FTA a game doesn't scream impressive either.

[Silfa]

Re: More Effective Player at age 38....

Hard to compare these two guys,
but I would say that Steve Nash is a cool old guy on the floor and he starts to appreciate it;
MJ used to be a scorer, must have been harder to let it go...

[JerzeyReign]

Re: More Effective Player at age 38....

If you didn't get my first post, look at it this way:

I'm a 35 year old middle school teacher. Every year we have a really good boys team and every year we have a student/faculty basketball game. I played point guard when I was younger, so my job is to distribute the basketball, not turn the ball over, score when needed, and make smart decisions. If I do that, I'm effective, and I have been told as much by the students and the faculty. However a co-worker is a little older than me and a lot taller (he's 6'6" like Jordan). My job is a little easier than his, and we don't expect THAT much from him...but if he dropped 22 per game every year, had more rebounds, more steals and or blocks, then I have to admit that he's being more effective at an older age than I am.

Wait, wait, wait -- picking on 10 year olds is different then picking on another well conditioned athlete.

I think Jordan was more effective. In today's game in which the offensive player gets so much leadway its not that hard to really be effective. Nash has a ton of shooters around him -- assists shouldn't be that hard to accomplish. I mean, Calderon is top five in assists and he's in Toronto with nothing around him.

Plus, John Stockton has already proven a PG can be extemely effective at an older age. If Malone didn't dribble as much between shots he'd easily would have averaged more assists per game. What MJ did probably won't be done for awhile -- Kobe is like 33-34 and is already breaking down.

[DocHolliday]

Kobe almost led the league in scoring this year, I wouldn't say he is breaking down by any stretch.


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[Sam Marlowe]

Re: More Effective Player at age 38....

In doing so he's had one of if not the least efficient years of his career. Thats what usually tends to go with age.

[23]

Kobe almost led the league in scoring this year, I wouldn't say he is breaking down by any stretch.


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It's not hard when you take a ton of shots to do so

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