Is Kobe Bryant A Top 5 Player in the NBA At This Very Moment?

[kayfngee]

Re: Is Kobe Bryant A Top 5 Player in the NBA At This Very Moment?

KD and Melo are basically the same player, and if Melo ever gets a real pg again ppl will come to understand this

They aren't the same player. Durant scores while shooting a good percentage. Anthony scores while being a bulk shooter and shooting a much lower percentage. Also Durant doesn't force as many bad shots as Carmelo.

[TajDeni]

Re: Is Kobe Bryant A Top 5 Player in the NBA At This Very Moment?

...but we're talking about who the better player is today. Wade has his athleticism today. That's why that's such an inappropriate argument to make. Wade is the better player today and it isn't even close. He has Kobe beaten in basically every single statistical category that is important. Kobe actually gave up more points per 100 possessions than he contributed this year. That's not good. lol

i see your point but originally i was arguing the question of on what grounds are ppl saying that wade is a better player than kobe 2day. because i personally dont hold that opinion. sorry if that got lost but that was my original question. after that i was responding to the response

ftr: and i do think we are seeing the beginning stages of wade losing his athleticism.

Note:
lastly i find it very hard to compare these particular guys to kobe because their prime eras dont overlap. i mean AB today is prolly better 2day than Timmy, but i find it highly difficult to let those words escape my lips out of respect, because i know when Timmy was AB age, he'd destroy him. feel the same about Kobe. the fact that this thread even exist is a testment to kobe not those other names

[TajDeni]

Re: Is Kobe Bryant A Top 5 Player in the NBA At This Very Moment?

They aren't the same player. Durant scores while shooting a good percentage. Anthony scores while being a bulk shooter and shooting a much lower percentage. Also Durant doesn't force as many bad shots as Carmelo.

i disagree because KD is usually on the finishing end of plays, whereas Melo has noone to create or setup the play for him, so basically he has to create and make the play. which is going to reduce any players efficiency. when Melo played with Chancey he was considered by many as the most efficient scorer in the league. no pg and this is what happens.

also add in the fact that not only does Melo have to create and make his own shots but then he's expected to create offense for others. something durant is not asked to do at all or on a very limiting basis.

Melo, like Durant, is a finisher and when he gets other players who can setup the table for him like durant has currently Melo's effeciancy will improve dramaticly.

so really thats the only thing seperating them now, Melo has more burdens to carry.

[TajDeni]

Re: Is Kobe Bryant A Top 5 Player in the NBA At This Very Moment?

...but we're talking about who the better player is today. Wade has his athleticism today. That's why that's such an inappropriate argument to make. Wade is the better player today and it isn't even close. He has Kobe beaten in basically every single statistical category that is important. Kobe actually gave up more points per 100 possessions than he contributed this year. That's not good. lol

im not really a stat guy because i think they tend to start to lack context in the long run, though they have their place and part to play in the larger picture. so if you wanna argue efficency we can get into that, but skill 4 skill wade has never at no point in his career been on kobes level, not yesterday, today or tomorrow imo

[JerzeyReign]

Re: Is Kobe Bryant A Top 5 Player in the NBA At This Very Moment?

Russell Westbrook is better than Carmelo and Dirk?

Ummm, his stats are right up there with their stats -- he has a case. Please make a case for Dirk being Top 5 right now. Lets end all that elitist "swag" you got goin' on right now...

I would agree that its about more than just copping a ring. However, there are reasons why alot of the so called 'greats' don't have one. John Stockton was an incredible passer and spot shooter, plus he was a master at changing speeds off his dribble and moving without the ball. He doesn't have a ring because Karl Malone was a choke artist. Its also tough to fault Wilkens for not winning a ring since he could do everything on the court (besides playing overwhelming defense).

Pete Maravich was a terrific shooter and scorer, but he was a loser. He never played defense and he totally monopolized the ball. The year before Maravich joined the club, the Hawks were an up and coming 48 win ballclub. With Maravich aboard the Hawks won 36 games the next year. Sure, he drew SRO crowds, but he was strictly a one man show.

Derek Fisher on his own isn't close to Maravich. But in context with the five man game he is the better player. Infinitely better position defense, ace spot shooting, and savvy passes to key team offense.

For sure, Gervin was a more versatile scorer than Robert Horry was. On his own he is better. But in a team setting, Horry is the pick. Big shot Rob simply made more transcendent plays in the clutch, big time treys and traffic rebounds were just business as usual.

Elgin Baylor was another one dimensional star, he could score in bunches and rule the boards. But his defense was abysmal and he only passed when he couldn't see the basket. After he was forced into retirement, the Lakers went on a tear that ended in a Title.

LeBron's greatness is mostly a function of his numbers. He actually can't defend all that great (certainly not at a DeBusschere or Rodman level).

Every player has their weakness -- good reasearch but it still doesn't take away from any of those player's greatness on a basketball court. No one harps on Jordan's horrid 3pt shooting, right?

And then you add in the bolded part -- bruh, you just compared two power forwards to a small forward? If you don't see the D that LBJ plays then I can't help you. And those two guys are great defenders but the best defensive power forward to me is Timmy D -- Mr. Fundamentals

[DemiGodzillla]

Re: Is Kobe Bryant A Top 5 Player in the NBA At This Very Moment?

Which, in debates like "who is the top 5 players in the league RIGHT NOW" is basically the equivalent of saying "Take away Kobe's jumpshot and how good is he then?"

No, it's not, taking away someone's athleticism is saying that they're not a well rounded player and they're relying on god given ability as a crutch to succeed at the level they're currently doing so, taking away someone's jump shot is taking away something they've practiced their whole life to attain and to attain specifically for use in the sport, it's apples and oranges.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Is Kobe Bryant A Top 5 Player in the NBA At This Very Moment?

No, it's not, taking away someone's athleticism is saying that they're not a well rounded player and they're relying on god given ability as a crutch to succeed at the level they're currently doing so, taking away someone's jump shot is taking away something they've practiced their whole life to attain and to attain specifically for use in the sport, it's apples and oranges.

Which is what this thread is about. Who are playing the best in the league right now? Right now, Kobe has his jumpshot. Wade has his athleticism. Wade is playing better right now, regardless of the fact that Kobe has more moves and whatnot.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: Is Kobe Bryant A Top 5 Player in the NBA At This Very Moment?

No, it's not, taking away someone's athleticism is saying that they're not a well rounded player and they're relying on god given ability as a crutch to succeed at the level they're currently doing so, taking away someone's jump shot is taking away something they've practiced their whole life to attain and to attain specifically for use in the sport, it's apples and oranges.

Regardless, it's irrelevant because Wade has his athleticism, so taking it away is a useless what if scenario.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: Is Kobe Bryant A Top 5 Player in the NBA At This Very Moment?

Serious question:

Why does Durant get a pass on defense? Whenever someone brings up Melo, the only thing you hear is "Well he's lazy. He doesn't have a championship attitude. He doesn't give any effort on defense." How many times has Durant just let LeBron run past him and thrown his hands up? I don't see how his defense is any better than Melo's honestly. The difference is, in the flashes that Melo does show that he can play defense, in my opinion he looks to have far more defensive potential than Durant.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Is Kobe Bryant A Top 5 Player in the NBA At This Very Moment?

Serious question:

Why does Durant get a pass on defense? Whenever someone brings up Melo, the only thing you hear is "Well he's lazy. He doesn't have a championship attitude. He doesn't give any effort on defense." How many times has Durant just let LeBron run past him and thrown his hands up? I don't see how his defense is any better than Melo's honestly. The difference is, in the flashes that Melo does show that he can play defense, in my opinion he looks to have far more defensive potential than Durant.

Agreed with everything you said.

[JerzeyReign]

Re: Is Kobe Bryant A Top 5 Player in the NBA At This Very Moment?

Serious question:

Why does Durant get a pass on defense? Whenever someone brings up Melo, the only thing you hear is "Well he's lazy. He doesn't have a championship attitude. He doesn't give any effort on defense." How many times has Durant just let LeBron run past him and thrown his hands up? I don't see how his defense is any better than Melo's honestly. The difference is, in the flashes that Melo does show that he can play defense, in my opinion he looks to have far more defensive potential than Durant.

He doesn't get a pass in my book! I think he's a 6'11, long armed no defense playing gunner!

But, he's only 23 -- when he learns how to play basketball he's going to be special.

[wwharton]

Re: Is Kobe Bryant A Top 5 Player in the NBA At This Very Moment?

Serious question:

Why does Durant get a pass on defense? Whenever someone brings up Melo, the only thing you hear is "Well he's lazy. He doesn't have a championship attitude. He doesn't give any effort on defense." How many times has Durant just let LeBron run past him and thrown his hands up? I don't see how his defense is any better than Melo's honestly. The difference is, in the flashes that Melo does show that he can play defense, in my opinion he looks to have far more defensive potential than Durant.

Not sure an example of any one man "letting" Lebron run past them is an indication of whether or not they play good defense.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Is Kobe Bryant A Top 5 Player in the NBA At This Very Moment?

Not sure an example of any one man "letting" Lebron run past them is an indication of whether or not they play good defense.

It's not just that he's getting beaten though. It's that he isn't really trying to move his feet and he's just lightly fouling guys basically begging the Heat for 3 point plays. And he isn't rebounding worth a damn either.

[SteelersFreak]

Re: Is Kobe Bryant A Top 5 Player in the NBA At This Very Moment?

Ummm, his stats are right up there with their stats -- he has a case. Please make a case for Dirk being Top 5 right now. Lets end all that elitist "swag" you got goin' on right now...

Westbrook is a great athelete, a great scorer, and a solid defender, that's about it. For a point guard, he's a mediocre passer at best, his basketball IQ is low, he's a decent, streaky shooter and he's a good rebounder for a point guard. He's a great player, possibly top 10 in the league. But better than Carmelo Anthony and Dirk Nowitzki. Dirk is a top 5 scorer in the league, and don't start throwing stats at me, his ability to score the basketball in a variety of ways is top 5. He's a nightmare matchup for every team in the league, he's one of the best shooters in the league, it never gets talked about, but he's one of the best passing bigs in the game, other than KD he's possibly the second most clutch player in the NBA. He's not a great rebounder and he's at best, a solid defender.

I don't even think I need to get into Carmelo, the dude's ability to score essentially puts him past Westbrook on his own. Westbrook is great, but he's still a number two guy at best, he's not at the level of being ranked up with guys who have carried teams on their backs for the past decade.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: Is Kobe Bryant A Top 5 Player in the NBA At This Very Moment?

It's not just that he's getting beaten though. It's that he isn't really trying to move his feet and he's just lightly fouling guys basically begging the Heat for 3 point plays. And he isn't rebounding worth a damn either.

Exactly. Best example was in Game 2 on his second foul. LeBron comes down in transition, and Durant just turns sideways and slaps him on the arm. He's not even attempting to stop him, and all he's doing is giving the Heat and-ones.