NBA Movement Central 2012 (All Transactions 1st Page)

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  • Vni
    Hall Of Fame
    • Sep 2011
    • 14833

    #4231
    Re: NBA Movement Central 2012 (All Transactions 1st Page)

    Originally posted by bigeastbumrush
    You probably saw more of MWP than I did. All I know is that when I did see him for the first 3/4 of the season...he could not hit a shot to save his life and his defense was subpar for his standards. Don't know if it was the lockout or what but he looked like he was at the end of his career.
    He was definately terrible on offense at the begining of the season. I think he was something like 5 for 80 from deep at one time. That was ridiculous. But that's not really his role or shoudn't be at least. I don't even think they win G7 against the Nuggets without him coming back.

    Comment

    • Weeks
      L Corleone
      • Aug 2009
      • 2990

      #4232
      Re: NBA Movement Central 2012 (All Transactions 1st Page)

      Originally posted by bigeastbumrush
      It's funny to me. The Lakers don't even scare me (Knicks fan...I can't speak for the other teams).

      I'm looking at their bench and depth...not their starters.

      Their starters are so old that they're not going to just be dominating everyone. Miami's Big 3 is different because LBJ, Wade & Bosh are all in their prime. They beat alot of teams in transition.

      The Lakers can't and won't do that. The Lakers will have to beat you in the halfcourt.

      Are they as versatile as San Antonio? No.
      Can their frontline defend like OKC? No.
      Do they have better P&R play than LAC? Debateable.

      It should be fun to watch but I don't think they'll dominate the league like some people think they will.

      I don't know the extent of Dwight's back condition. But if it's anywhere near TMac's...he could be in for a long remainder of his career.

      Nash already has back issues and players are never the same once they leave PHX's training staff.

      Pau has to have a huge year and they need something from Metta because he looked like utter trash for most of last year.

      This should be interesting.
      I disagree, Nash-Kobe-Pau-Dwight as four of their starters scares me. Nash has continued to prove he can play at a high level despite his age, and after Kobe had the Germany procedure he had a good bounce back year last year.

      World Peace is on a rapid decline, and Pau hasn't been very good, but I think Nash will help rejuvenate Pau some.

      Dwight is the best defensive game changer in the NBA IMO, he has 3 DPOY's and is consistently among the leaders in blocks and rebounds. And Pau isn't a great defender but he can still bother shots with his length.

      There depth isn't great, but a Duhon/Blake-Meeks/Goudeluck-Ebanks-Jamison-Hill bench isn't bad at all.

      Bottom line is they have Nash who is one of, if not, the best players in the world at setting others up and running a team, plus he's money from three.

      Kobe who was averaging 28PPG last year.

      Pau who at 17-10, was considered as having a "bad" year.

      And then the best center in the NBA in Dwight.

      The death of this team will either be injuries (Dwight, Nash, Kobe...), or Kobe's ego being too big and not letting Nash be another main ball handler/not wanting Dwight to be the best player on the Lakers.

      Just my opinion.
      Chicago Bulls
      Chicago Bears
      Wisconsin Badgers

      Comment

      • PrettyT11
        MVP
        • Jul 2008
        • 3220

        #4233
        Re: NBA Movement Central 2012 (All Transactions 1st Page)

        Originally posted by Jukeman
        And the Houston deal was only better because they had a chance to get rid of those contracts, the draft pick from Tor was only a rumor. The crop of young players Houston was giving up were not better than Afflalo, Harkless nor Vucevic. Half those guys are DLeague talent.
        Kevin Martin is easily better than all three of those guys. He is a legit 20 plus a night scorer and has a lot more team friendly contract than Afflalo. That would have at least gave them somebody who could score some buckets. As far as the prospects go I would much rather have a Jeremy Lamb than Harkless or Vucevic. Plus Royce White and Terrence Jones are no closer to the D league than Harkless is. I just don't see how you can call those guys D league talent.

        But the real kicker that pushes the Houston deal over the top is they was offering an unprotected first round pick. That alone raises the value of the trade they was offering. I would much rather have a lotto pick to use next than have to wait at least two years for some mid to late first round pick.

        Comment

        • Jukeman
          Showtime
          • Aug 2005
          • 10955

          #4234
          Originally posted by PrettyT11
          Kevin Martin is easily better than all three of those guys. He is a legit 20 plus a night scorer and has a lot more team friendly contract than Afflalo. That would have at least gave them somebody who could score some buckets. As far as the prospects go I would much rather have a Jeremy Lamb than Harkless or Vucevic. Plus Royce White and Terrence Jones are no closer to the D league than Harkless is. I just don't see how you can call those guys D league talent.

          But the real kicker that pushes the Houston deal over the top is they was offering an unprotected first round pick. That alone raises the value of the trade they was offering. I would much rather have a lotto pick to use next than have to wait at least two years for some mid to late first round pick.
          Kevin Martin was in Kevin McHale's dog house. You really think Orl wanted to even entertain another problem child? Plus he's pushing 30, he was only valuable as an expiring.

          And where was the lotto pick coming from? A dwight-Houston team is going to the playoff and that Toronto 1st round was only speculation.

          Comment

          • PrettyT11
            MVP
            • Jul 2008
            • 3220

            #4235
            Re: NBA Movement Central 2012 (All Transactions 1st Page)

            Originally posted by Jukeman
            Kevin Martin was in Kevin McHale's dog house. You really think Orl wanted to even entertain another problem child? Plus he's pushing 30, he was only valuable as an expiring.

            And where was the lotto pick coming from? A dwight-Houston team is going to the playoff and that Toronto 1st round was only speculation.
            He still has more value to me than Afflalo. The fact that his deal comes off the books after next season helps his value. With Afflalo you are still one the hook for 4 years and close to 30 million for a middle of the pack shooting guard. Martin gives you the better player and pretty much instant cap space if he doesn't work out.

            Even if the Toronto pick wasn't in(but word is it was) it isn't a lock that the Rockets would make the playoffs next year with Dwight not being ready for the start of the year. Let's also not forget Lowry and Scola are gone. They would by no means be a lock. It's not like the west playoff teams got worse this off season. A few of them actually added peices and should be better.

            But the point is having an unprotected pick in your pocket now has a lot more value to it than protected picks years from now. There is no way that can be disputed.
            Last edited by PrettyT11; 08-11-2012, 03:11 PM.

            Comment

            • slimm44
              MVP
              • Sep 2005
              • 3253

              #4236
              Re: NBA Movement Central 2012 (All Transactions 1st Page)

              For the record, I said that was the worst trade ever and stand by it. If I end up being wrong, I'll eat crow. It looks absolutely pathetic to me.
              Acts 2:38. Let the truth be told.
              John 4:23. He is seeking a seeker.
              John 3:20. Say no to normal.

              Comment

              • DukeC
                Banned
                • Jul 2011
                • 5751

                #4237
                Re: NBA Movement Central 2012 (All Transactions 1st Page)

                Originally posted by Jukeman
                Kevin Martin was in Kevin McHale's dog house. You really think Orl wanted to even entertain another problem child? Plus he's pushing 30, he was only valuable as an expiring.

                And where was the lotto pick coming from? A dwight-Houston team is going to the playoff and that Toronto 1st round was only speculation.
                What does that have to do with anything? I wager Mchale didn't like the fact that K-Mart didn't play a lick of defense. But then, if he went to Orlando that wouldn't have been a problem because no one besides Dwight played any defense anyway.

                Aside from that fact, he's still an efficient 20 PPG scorer because of his ability to get to the free-throw line where he shot 88% last year and 89% from the line this year.

                <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/IuBVagLkYTU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

                But K-Mart can't put up 20+ points because he's pushing 30 though...

                Calling Terrence Jones (who's played SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much better than Harkless during the Summer League is averaging 18 and 10) and Royce White "D-league talent" displays a severe lack of knowledge about those two prospects. Add on to the fact that Harkless is currently adjusting to a new position and the other two are not....

                <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ncol0AUiFXE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

                Royce White is a bum though.....

                Comment

                • ProfessaPackMan
                  Bamma
                  • Mar 2008
                  • 63852

                  #4238
                  Re: NBA Movement Central 2012 (All Transactions 1st Page)

                  Originally posted by Jukeman
                  I think its unfair to call this the worst trade in history while we havent even seen the results yet. I guess its just something to talk about until the season gets here..
                  See my earlier post to Bull Market.

                  Again, you can literally say that about every trade ever made and it still doesn't excuse that Orlando got raped on their end. How can you say you wanna rebuild or follow the OKC Model(which is another thing I'm starting to take an issue with) but yet you took on additional contracts AND the picks you got from those teams are not only their worst picks but they're also protected and you're not getting them for another 2 years.

                  And I'm one of the biggest optimists on here in regards to trades but it don't take a genius to see that they could've gotten a better package than what THEY got for him.
                  Last edited by ProfessaPackMan; 08-11-2012, 03:56 PM.
                  #RespectTheCulture

                  Comment

                  • Bull_Market
                    Pro
                    • Jul 2012
                    • 618

                    #4239
                    Re: NBA Movement Central 2012 (All Transactions 1st Page)

                    Originally posted by ProfessaPackMan
                    See my earlier post to Bull Market.

                    Again, you can literally say that about every trade ever made and it still doesn't excuse that Orlando got raped on their end. How can you say you wanna rebuild or follow the OKC Model(which is another thing I'm starting to take an issue with) but yet you took on additional contracts AND the picks you got from those teams are not only their worst picks but they're also protected and you're not getting them for another 2 years.

                    And I'm one of the biggest optimists on here in regards to trades but it don't take a genius to see that they could've gotten a better package than what THEY got for him.
                    How do you know? Just because, us, the fans think they couldve gotten a better deal doesnt mean they couldve. Its pure conjecture, no of us hold any positions in a NBA front office, we arent privy to what the Magic couldve gotten.

                    Howard had all the leverage, not to mention a bad back. Whos going to give up a lot for a non-committal C with a bad back, who said himself, ”he still cant run”.

                    Im going to wait to see how this plays out, how the players develop & what the picks end up being, if im wrong, i wont hesitate to say so.
                    #HellaBandz
                    In Gunna I Trust

                    Comment

                    • Jukeman
                      Showtime
                      • Aug 2005
                      • 10955

                      #4240
                      Originally posted by DukeC
                      What does that have to do with anything? I wager Mchale didn't like the fact that K-Mart didn't play a lick of defense. But then, if he went to Orlando that wouldn't have been a problem because no one besides Dwight played any defense anyway.

                      Aside from that fact, he's still an efficient 20 PPG scorer because of his ability to get to the free-throw line where he shot 88% last year and 89% from the line this year.



                      But K-Mart can't put up 20+ points because he's pushing 30 though...

                      Calling Terrence Jones (who's played SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much better than Harkless during the Summer League is averaging 18 and 10) and Royce White "D-league talent" displays a severe lack of knowledge about those two prospects. Add on to the fact that Harkless is currently adjusting to a new position and the other two are not....



                      Royce White is a bum though.....
                      Martin is a streaky shooter, he got 17 a game because he's a volume shooter. I rather have Aaron who's younger, shoot better, plays better D and have a good contract if he have a break out year, not to mention he put up 15 last year.

                      Summer league? Yea that is a good measurement for college players who played in a top notch conference.

                      Jones is not skill enough to play 3 and not good in the post to play the 4 nor does he have a jumper to make up for his lack of post game. Lets see if he even average 9 and 5 during the next 2 years in the NBA. Harkless has more upside regardless of summer league.

                      And what made you mention Royce's name? I didnt even mention him. I said half of the guys they were offering are DLeague talent and that holds true (with guys like Lamb, Morris and Jones.)

                      Point is, the trade isn't as terrible as people are making it out to be. I personally would have accepted the Houston deal just for the fact that I am losing Rich, Duhon and Davis. Parson and maybe White (if he could translate his inside/outside game and protect the ball more) would def be in Orl for awhile but everyone else, not so much.


                      Edit-

                      And I think people are taking the "OKC way" out of context.

                      OKC did a fine job of scouting and evaluating players. Harden, West and Durant (too skinny) werent sure things. Each and everyone of those guys had negatives about them. I even remember people here saying Harden wasnt going to be good on draft day.

                      #1 pick or 30th pick, it doesnt matter as you pick the players that you feel fit into what you are trying to do on the court. I have no problem with the the comment especially with the way Orl been drafting for the last decade..
                      Last edited by Jukeman; 08-11-2012, 04:15 PM.

                      Comment

                      • King_B_Mack
                        All Star
                        • Jan 2009
                        • 24451

                        #4241
                        Re: NBA Movement Central 2012 (All Transactions 1st Page)

                        Originally posted by ProfessaPackMan
                        See my earlier post to Bull Market.

                        Again, you can literally say that about every trade ever made and it still doesn't excuse that Orlando got raped on their end. How can you say you wanna rebuild or follow the OKC Model(which is another thing I'm starting to take an issue with) but yet you took on additional contracts AND the picks you got from those teams are not only their worst picks but they're also protected and you're not getting them for another 2 years.

                        And I'm one of the biggest optimists on here in regards to trades but it don't take a genius to see that they could've gotten a better package than what THEY got for him.
                        The Laker pick is the worst of the worst. You don't see that pick until 2017. No way the Lakers haven't reloaded that squad by then.

                        Comment

                        • Kashanova
                          Hall Of Fame
                          • Aug 2003
                          • 12695

                          #4242
                          Re: NBA Movement Central 2012 (All Transactions 1st Page)

                          The Pick and Roll talk is silly. Yeah they'll run a few but do you think Kobe is going to just sit there and watch while Nash PnRs with Howard and Pau? I don't think so. Kobe will disrupt the offense just like he's always have with out Phil Jackson

                          Comment

                          • ProfessaPackMan
                            Bamma
                            • Mar 2008
                            • 63852

                            #4243
                            Re: NBA Movement Central 2012 (All Transactions 1st Page)

                            Howard had all the leverage, not to mention a bad back. Whos going to give up a lot for a non-committal C with a bad back, who said himself, ”he still cant run”.
                            Is this a trick question?

                            You had two teams(one of them I know for a fact)who were willing to give them whatever they wanted. The problem for one of those teams is that the Magic never wanted to deal with them from the start.

                            And I think people are taking the "OKC way" out of context.

                            OKC did a fine job of scouting and evaluating players. Harden, West and Durant (too skinny) werent sure things. Each and everyone of those guys had negatives about them. I even remember people here saying Harden wasnt going to be good on draft day.
                            My beef with this is that people get too carried with using the "OKC Way"(Which really isn't "their" way)is that people think they're the only team in the history of the NBA(part of this I blame on the Media since they force feed it down people's throats) that has gone the draft and develop route when it's not the case at all. They may have achieved success faster than other teams but that does not mean they're the first team to ever employ this strategy and have it work(which even right now it's still in the air because they have nothing to show for it in the grand scheme of things).
                            #RespectTheCulture

                            Comment

                            • Jukeman
                              Showtime
                              • Aug 2005
                              • 10955

                              #4244
                              Originally posted by ProfessaPackMan
                              Is this a trick question?

                              You had two teams(one of them I know for a fact)who were willing to give them whatever they wanted. The problem for one of those teams is that the Magic never wanted to deal with them from the start.


                              My beef with this is that people get too carried with using the "OKC Way"(Which really isn't "their" way)is that people think they're the only team in the history of the NBA(part of this I blame on the Media since they force feed it down people's throats) that has gone the draft and develop route when it's not the case at all. They may have achieved success faster than other teams but that does not mean they're the first team to ever employ this strategy and have it work(which even right now it's still in the air because they have nothing to show for it in the grand scheme of things).
                              I agree with that.

                              But isnt the new GM coming from OKC? I can see why OKC was referenced.
                              Last edited by Jukeman; 08-11-2012, 04:31 PM.

                              Comment

                              • Boltman
                                L.A. to S.D. to HI
                                • Mar 2004
                                • 18283

                                #4245
                                Re: NBA Movement Central 2012 (All Transactions 1st Page)

                                I'm still lmao @ people posing worse case scenarios for the Lakers.

                                Are they going to be world beaters? Of course not, lets not be silly.

                                Are they a better team than they were? In my opinion, absolutely they are.

                                I think some of you spend more time thinking about the Lakers than you do on whatever team it is that you're a fan of. (which I get)

                                We'll see what happens when the season gets underway. I predict a lot more Laker talk then, that's a given.

                                Based on a few people's opinions on OS, old *** Lakers combined with Dwight's back pose no threat to the title. Hopefully other teams will be thinking that as well.

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