92' Dream team vs 2012 USA team

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  • BringTheHeat
    MVP
    • Jan 2012
    • 2264

    #166
    Re: 92' Dream team vs 2012 USA team

    Originally posted by 23
    You're tap dancing around that point so hard Gregory Hines would be proud.
    "To the last minute, to the last second, to the last man, we fight"

    Comment

    • DieHardYankee26
      BING BONG
      • Feb 2008
      • 10178

      #167
      Re: 92' Dream team vs 2012 USA team

      No he wasn't playing against hall of fame centers every night, but Dwight isn't going up against any. He's the best center in the league because center is an awful position in the NBA right now, Ewing is a top 10 center all time. He would not be dominated by Dwight. Not at all.

      And David Robinson was a 24, 12, 4.5 block a game center that year who could actually shoot free throws. So I would say he was every bit as good as Dwight. The only reason Dwight is so highly regarded is because he is the only legitimate 20-10 center in a league full of one dimensional players and scrubs.

      EDIT: And there's a reason Dwight doesn't get that many shots. Because he's all but useless in crunch time due to his complete inability to hit a free throw.
      Originally posted by G Perico
      If I ain't got it, then I gotta take it
      I can't hide who I am, baby I'm a gangster
      In the Rolls Royce, steppin' on a mink rug
      The clique just a gang of bosses that linked up

      Comment

      • DukeC
        Banned
        • Jul 2011
        • 5751

        #168
        Re: 92' Dream team vs 2012 USA team

        Let's not forget David Robinson was legitimately 7 foot and is the same dude who scored 71 points in a game. A feat Dwight has not even come close to accomplishing against even scrubs. AND the same guy who recorded a quadruple double.

        <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/24NLqvKER1c" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

        <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/KkpT0QdUDIY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

        In what universe is Tyson Chandler or Dwight stopping Robinson? Much less Hakeem.
        Last edited by DukeC; 07-26-2012, 01:53 PM.

        Comment

        • ojandpizza
          Hall Of Fame
          • Apr 2011
          • 29807

          #169
          In 1992 Robinson had been in the league for two years, he wasn't at his MVP winning 71 points in a game scoring dominant level at that point. And he wasnt at his monster sized physique yet either..Shaq wasn't in the league yet, no Mourning either, to say DH wouldn't be a top five center then is harsh. I would only put Hakeem and Ewing over him at that point. And outside of those 3-4 guys the rest of the NBA was just as low on big men talent as it is now. I don't know how you don't think that if DH played then and doubled his amount of shots taken (to match those guys) he wouldn't be a statistical monster.. His game mimics a young Shaq, I guess nobody remember the success Shaq had individually his first couple years in the league playing against those guys..

          I stil don't see the 92' not doubling DH, i mean they wpuldnt want to give the 5th scoring option on the 2012 lineup a chance to get decent looks under the rim, especially with Rpbinson in.. I guess nobody remembers him getting WORKED by Sabonis.. Ewing and Robinson only averaged 9-10 points against the horrible overseas players of 92' I guess they're supposed to just come in and Dominate the huge athletic guys who are actually good defensively like Howard and Chandler when they didn't even do the same against foreign competition???

          Comment

          • DukeC
            Banned
            • Jul 2011
            • 5751

            #170
            Re: 92' Dream team vs 2012 USA team

            Originally posted by ojandpizza
            In 1992 Robinson had been in the league for two years, he wasn't at his MVP winning 71 points in a game scoring dominant level at that point. And he wasnt at his monster sized physique yet either..Shaq wasn't in the league yet, no Mourning either, to say DH wouldn't be a top five center then is harsh. I would only put Hakeem and Ewing over him at that point. And outside of those 3-4 guys the rest of the NBA was just as low on big men talent as it is now. I don't know how you don't think that if DH played then and doubled his amount of shots taken (to match those guys) he wouldn't be a statistical monster.. His game mimics a young Shaq, I guess nobody remember the success Shaq had individually his first couple years in the league playing against those guys..

            I stil don't see the 92' not doubling DH, i mean they wpuldnt want to give the 5th scoring option on the 2012 lineup a chance to get decent looks under the rim, especially with Rpbinson in.. I guess nobody remembers him getting WORKED by Sabonis.. Ewing and Robinson only averaged 9-10 points against the horrible overseas players of 92' I guess they're supposed to just come in and Dominate the huge athletic guys who are actually good defensively like Howard and Chandler when they didn't even do the same against foreign competition???
            So we're just going to ignore the fact that during 90, 91, and 92 (His first 3 years in the league) he was averaging 24 PPG, 12 RPG, 4 BPG while shooting just a tad bit more than 16 times a game? You're telling me he wasn't a monster?

            Checkout the latest stats of David Robinson. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, draft status, shoots, school and more on Basketball-Reference.com


            Hell, in 92, 7 of the 10 leading scorers were big men. 4 of which were Centers. Hakeem, Shaq, Robinson, and Ewing. And then Alonzo was 15th in scoring as well.

            Checkout the list of all the 1992-93 NBA Leaders along with their teams, categories and more on Basketball-Reference.com


            Hell, I'd take a Healthy Alonzo before I'd take Dwight at this point to be perfectly honest.

            Comment

            • ojandpizza
              Hall Of Fame
              • Apr 2011
              • 29807

              #171
              Shaq and Mourning weren't in the league yet.. You have the wrong season bub..

              And I know the stats Robinson had but of you want to keep posting them that's cool too.. This is about the 92 dream team playing the 2012 team so if you want to talk stats you can say 9PPG against crappy foreign big men of 92' DOMINANT right there!

              You forget the NBA has changed. Nobody here ever wants to take note of that. In 92 nobody had ever played against a center quite like Robinson and even more so when shaq came into the league nobody had played against anything like him. Since then players have changed, rules have changed. If DH played then under those rules, getting those touches I see no reason to believe he wouldn't be just as much if not more effective. I never said he was the better player, if I had to list off the greatest centers of all time Ewing and Robinson would* obviously be higher on the list than Howard.

              Comment

              • wwharton
                *ll St*r
                • Aug 2002
                • 26949

                #172
                Re: 92' Dream team vs 2012 USA team

                Originally posted by ojandpizza
                ^ no he doesn't, and I think he's too fast and too strong for him, Ewing was never great defensively against athletic bigs...How am I overrating anybody? You are the one who said a team of 12 of the greatest basketball players in the world right now had no chance of even slowing Michael Jordan even a little bit.. YOU'RE over rating people.
                You're focusing WAY too much on stats. If you watch Howard play it's clear why he only gets 11 shots a game... he's got no post game to speak of. The offensive is focused around him and he only gets 11 shots a game, but you think that's by design? But more importantly, I have NO idea why you're underrating Ewing's defense. Someone else would have to cause the defense to shift to get Dwight the ball on an alley oop or something... but then he wouldn't be beating Ewing or Robinson, something he couldn't do very often on his own.

                Originally posted by ojandpizza
                And Ewing had a great post game? Most Ewing fans argue he was better in college than he was in the NBA.. His legs/knees failed him, he was slow and turned into a fade-away shooting big man..DH doesn't need a post game to turn around and dunk all over you, did you not see how successful a young Shaq was back then??
                What does any of this have to do with Ewing being able to contain Howard on defense?

                Originally posted by ojandpizza
                Shaq and Mourning weren't in the league yet.. You have the wrong season bub..

                And I know the stats Robinson had but of you want to keep posting them that's cool too.. This is about the 92 dream team playing the 2012 team so if you want to talk stats you can say 9PPG against crappy foreign big men of 92' DOMINANT right there!

                You forget the NBA has changed. Nobody here ever wants to take note of that. In 92 nobody had ever played against a center quite like Robinson and even more so when shaq came into the league nobody had played against anything like him. Since then players have changed, rules have changed. If DH played then under those rules, getting those touches I see no reason to believe he wouldn't be just as much if not more effective. I never said he was the better player, if I had to list off the greatest centers of all time Ewing and Robinson would* obviously be higher on the list than Howard.
                Please stop comparing Howard to Shaq. It's not even a contest. Shaq had more moves off the dribble from the wing than Howard does on the post. Everything Howard is TRYING to learn from Hakeem right now, Shaq was doing in college. The only thing they have in common is range on their "jump" shot if you want to call it that. No one saw anything like Shaq before, and they haven't since so that point doesn't really matter. You can change all the rules you want, IF Howard had moves like Shaq we'd have a discussion but he's very far from it.

                BTW, we are talking about the 92 team vs the 2012 team so Howard shouldn't be in the discussion at all anyway. But there were other good centers in the league back then. They just didn't get as much recognition bc there were HOF centers ahead of them (kind of like PGs today). You mentioned Sabonis abusing someone but fail to mention that Sabonis is one of the best players to ever play the game himself? He'd abuse Howard and definitely the rest of the 2012 team if he were in the league at that age today. He would've abused the NBA back then if he came over in his prime.

                Comment

                • ojandpizza
                  Hall Of Fame
                  • Apr 2011
                  • 29807

                  #173
                  I'm focusing too much on stats? Are you reading what everybody else is saying.. I failed to mention that Ewing was a great defender because I honestly don't think he was. Dont get me wrong he is a good defender and was greet in that team defensive concept the knicks had but I don't think he was superb 1 on 1 defender especially on big guys who are quicker and more athletic than he..

                  I know DH doesn't have the best post moves, everybody knows that. But I also know he isn't as bad as what everybody says. He's improved a lot.

                  The dude takes 11 shots and scores 20ppg..think about that. He's scoring nearly everytime he shoots.. Especially considering how bad he is at FTs.. And that team was not built around him scoring the team was built around shooting 3s.. Even Stan Van Gundy the freaking coach said that.

                  Comment

                  • wwharton
                    *ll St*r
                    • Aug 2002
                    • 26949

                    #174
                    Re: 92' Dream team vs 2012 USA team

                    Originally posted by ojandpizza
                    I'm focusing too much on stats? Are you reading what everybody else is saying.. I failed to mention that Ewing was a great defender because I honestly don't think he was. Dont get me wrong he is a good defender and was greet in that team defensive concept the knicks had but I don't think he was superb 1 on 1 defender especially on big guys who are quicker and more athletic than he..

                    I know DH doesn't have the best post moves, everybody knows that. But I also know he isn't as bad as what everybody says. He's improved a lot.

                    The dude takes 11 shots and scores 20ppg..think about that. He's scoring nearly everytime he shoots.. Especially considering how bad he is at FTs.. And that team was not built around him scoring the team was built around shooting 3s.. Even Stan Van Gundy the freaking coach said that.
                    Yes, you're focusing too much on stats... repeated the same stats again. You think it's helping your argument but it's not. He is one of the few true big men in the league and only puts up a few shots a game. They're not freezing him out... he can't do anything with the ball unless he catches it 2 feet from the basket or closer. That's why he only gets 13 shots a game and also why his FG% is so high. For comparison, Bynum took the same number of shots per game this past year, averaged close to the same number of points with close to the same FG%. But we all know Bynum didn't get the ball enough with Kobe dominating it. There is no Kobe on the Magic. They give him the ball... he can't do much with it. I hate throwing this term out there but have you actually watched him play?

                    Do you know why you put a bunch of 3 point shooters around a dominant big? Because when teams help he kicks out for open looks... that's called building around him. Do you know why it never worked? Because many teams didn't need to double down bc he needs to get the ball in layup range to be any kind of offensive threat. He scores almost every time he shoots bc even he knows he shouldn't be shooting the ball from much farther out so won't even try... which is also why your best player who plays almost 40 mins a game that you're comparing to HOFers only shoots 13 times a game, on a team where he should be the alpha dog.

                    Comment

                    • jd@os
                      Roster Editor
                      • Jul 2007
                      • 3716

                      #175
                      Re: 92' Dream team vs 2012 USA team

                      I hate when people say the game has evolved from 20 years ago but fail to consider this...

                      Has Chris Paul EVOLVED into a better player that Magic? Hell no.
                      Has Kobe EVOLVED into a better player than Jordan? Nope.
                      Has Tyson Chandler EVOLVED into a better player than Patrick Ewing? Nah.

                      That's three of 5 starters. The game has developed, but you must consider the above before you open your mouth, and if you do, you will quickly close it again.

                      When these 2012 guys EVOLVE their games, and Kevin Durant EVOLVES some muscles to guard Malone down low, and when Lebron EVOLVES a heart to not flippity flop (like he was hit with a sniper's shot) against Barkley's physical play, then we have a discussion.
                      Last edited by jd@os; 07-26-2012, 05:05 PM.

                      Comment

                      • Bull_Market
                        Pro
                        • Jul 2012
                        • 618

                        #176
                        Re: 92' Dream team vs 2012 USA team

                        '12 T--USA have their hands full with Spains bigs (Pau, Marc, Ibaka) the 92 team would assualt this team down low. Actually, im surprised this is even up for debate. 92 team, no sweat.
                        #HellaBandz
                        In Gunna I Trust

                        Comment

                        • ojandpizza
                          Hall Of Fame
                          • Apr 2011
                          • 29807

                          #177
                          Originally posted by wwharton
                          Yes, you're focusing too much on stats... repeated the same stats again. You think it's helping your argument but it's not. He is one of the few true big men in the league and only puts up a few shots a game. They're not freezing him out... he can't do anything with the ball unless he catches it 2 feet from the basket or closer. That's why he only gets 13 shots a game and also why his FG% is so high. For comparison, Bynum took the same number of shots per game this past year, averaged close to the same number of points with close to the same FG%. But we all know Bynum didn't get the ball enough with Kobe dominating it. There is no Kobe on the Magic. They give him the ball... he can't do much with it. I hate throwing this term out there but have you actually watched him play?

                          Do you know why you put a bunch of 3 point shooters around a dominant big? Because when teams help he kicks out for open looks... that's called building around him. Do you know why it never worked? Because many teams didn't need to double down bc he needs to get the ball in layup range to be any kind of offensive threat. He scores almost every time he shoots bc even he knows he shouldn't be shooting the ball from much farther out so won't even try... which is also why your best player who plays almost 40 mins a game that you're comparing to HOFers only shoots 13 times a game, on a team where he should be the alpha dog.
                          I guess we just completely disagree then. I have watched him play, I can't stand him, I've never liked him as a player or person off the court either. But I don't think he's being given his due. I don't think it's just the fact that he can't shoot or has a lack of go to post moves. I think it's just how the game has changed. You mentioned that Bynum shoots around the same number of shots as Howard, and I said 11 shot because I was going off his career averages not just last season alone.. Maybe Bynum doesn't only take 13 shots because Kobe but maybe it's because NBA teams don't utilize the center position as they did in the 80s-90s.. I still believe Howard would be a better player then than he is now.

                          But I never meant to get off on his season or career numbers anyways, everybody's else's posts just lead to this because they wanted to talk about the other big mens careers..I just said if team USA would have had DH it would have made the game closer because he would have been hard for Ewing to guard 1 on 1...And everybody jumped all over it saying how Ewing and Robinson would just dominate him when they didn't even dominate against the teams they played in 92' - doesn't make any sense at all. Like I've said numerous times here no 1 player would even be taking enough shots or having the ball enough to dominate a game like this

                          Now that I think though if I was the 2012 team I would play Chandler when Ewing was in and Howard when Robinson was in. Chandler does better defensively against guys who aren't more athletic than him or quicker than him.. To me Robinson would kill Chandler. But I also think Robinson was a great shot blocker but not a great defender, that's why I would use Howard when he was in.. Just how I would coach anyways

                          Comment

                          • ojandpizza
                            Hall Of Fame
                            • Apr 2011
                            • 29807

                            #178
                            Originally posted by jd@os
                            I hate when people say the game has evolved from 20 years ago but fail to consider this...

                            Has Chris Paul EVOLVED into a better player that Magic? Hell no.
                            Has Kobe EVOLVED into a better player than Jordan? Nope.
                            Has Tyson Chandler EVOLVED into a better player than Patrick Ewing? Nah.

                            That's three of 5 starters. The game has developed, but you must consider the above before you open your mouth, and if you do, you will quickly close it again.

                            When these 2012 guys EVOLVE their games, and Kevin Durant EVOLVES some muscles to guard Malone down low, and when Lebron EVOLVES a heart to not flippity flop (like he was hit with a sniper's shot) against Barkley's physical play, then we have a discussion.
                            Dude I don't even know what you're talking about.. I never said any player had evolved to be better. I said the game has evolved in that big men don't shoot 20 shots per game like they did in the 90s. And I made a hypothetical evolving statement about players 40 year from now just to make a point about him being biased..? Nobody ever tried to say Chandler Kobe or CP were better than Ewing Jordan or Magic..? But honestly Magic couldn't guard any of the 2012s PG anyways and as far as "evolving" goes LeBron is the size of Malone, passes like Magic, and scores on the drive like Jordan.. Maybe you don't like LeBron and that's fine, but at this point in Magic and Birds careers he's easily the best player on the court not named Michael Jordan..

                            And maybe none of you ever took the time to read the 20+ times I've said the 92 team would win the game! Sheeesh!

                            Comment

                            • ehh
                              Hall Of Fame
                              • Mar 2003
                              • 28962

                              #179
                              Re: 92' Dream team vs 2012 USA team

                              Originally posted by ojandpizza
                              I see no reason to believe that if Howard was utilized the way big men were then he could be almost the equivalent of a young Shaq and outplayed Ewing
                              "You make your name in the regular season, and your fame in the postseason." - Clyde Frazier

                              "Beware of geeks bearing formulas." - Warren Buffet

                              Comment

                              • DieHardYankee26
                                BING BONG
                                • Feb 2008
                                • 10178

                                #180
                                Big Men don't shoot 20+ times a game because there's none good enough to warrant giving them the ball that much. Shaq took 15 shots per game 7 years ago. Dwight doesn't shoot that much because he's not good enough to get that many touches, and refuses to/is unable to expand his game outside of his comfort zone to allow himself to have more shot opportunities in different spots.
                                Originally posted by G Perico
                                If I ain't got it, then I gotta take it
                                I can't hide who I am, baby I'm a gangster
                                In the Rolls Royce, steppin' on a mink rug
                                The clique just a gang of bosses that linked up

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