2013 Dunk Contestees

[Majingir]

Re: 2013 Dunk Contestees

Griffins car and Howard with the first superman dunk were real overrated.

When a guy misses a dunk(but ball goes in the net) during dunk contest, commentators bash that guy, but when Howard did it, they loved him.


I just watched 2012 contest again, and Paul Georges glow in the dark 360 windmill dunk should be on that list. Real underrated dunk in that contest and he should have won that year too!

Gerald Greens cupcake one was cool, but didn't seem like anyone knew about the blowing out the candle stuff until seeing the replay.


Based on Raptors twitter account, seems like they might be doing some politicking(dirty style) to get Ross more dunk contest votes if he makes it to finals.

[d11king]

Re: 2013 Dunk Contestees

Griffins car and Howard with the first superman dunk were real overrated.

When a guy misses a dunk(but ball goes in the net) during dunk contest, commentators bash that guy, but when Howard did it, they loved him.


I just watched 2012 contest again, and Paul Georges glow in the dark 360 windmill dunk should be on that list. Real underrated dunk in that contest and he should have won that year too!

Gerald Greens cupcake one was cool, but didn't seem like anyone knew about the blowing out the candle stuff until seeing the replay.


Based on Raptors twitter account, seems like they might be doing some politicking(dirty style) to get Ross more dunk contest votes if he makes it to finals.

George's 360 windmill was nice, but the whole dunk contest last year was too gimmicky. Too much focus on props and showmanship rather than the dunk itself. I hate the stupid timer and I hate the fan voting, but the judges robbed AI on his dunk contest, I just watched it yesterday, Nate got a 45 for some stupid 3 attempt dunk he usually does in every dunk contest and AI gets a 44 for I believe a one handed between the legs reverse?!?!? can't remember correctly. It shouldn't have even went to the dunk off in the face place, and you sure as hell shouldn't have guys who've never dunked, as judges.

I'm surprised no one has attempted a 720. I thought Demar would've been the first, and I still cringe at Shannon UPS Brown not converting that 360 Statue of Liberty.

[VDusen04]

Re: 2013 Dunk Contestees

Dwight Howard's Superman slam being ranked above anything other than an outright miss makes my brain explode. I am not in any way a dunk purist that generally doesn't like throw-ins, but unlike a throw-in on somebody, which looks like triumph in the face of adversity, an undefended version just looks like a childlike cover-up of a miscalculation. In every context imaginable, having one's forward acceleration rapidly disrupted by an opposing force or stationary object carries a very different set of potential consequences than running out of momentum before a target is reached.

Any sports "journalist" who perpetuates the myth that he initially intended to throw it in, or that it was anything other than a shorted jump and desperate improvisation by a player tall enough to still have the opportunity to make it, should have their press privileges revoked.

You appear so strong in your beliefs on all these matters that I am unsure if there's a point in responding to them but for the love of message boarding, I press on. I did not find Dwight Howard's dunk to be a "child-like miscalculation". I also do not think he meant to throw it in before approaching, but I do not see how his improvisation was child-like. He pushed himself to the limit and attempted to jump from very far away off of two feet. Even if folks do not like the jam, I do not see it as a failure. He could have taken off from a step further in and dunked it in a traditional manner, but instead he upped the ante and tried to go even further out - and he still threw it down with incredible authority.

And again, it was essentially a monster one-hand oop. I understand that. If I had to make a top ten list of dunk contest dunks, that one would not have come to mind. However, I understand it. We know Howard is corny now, and we know he'd eventually run gimmicks into the ground. But at the time, I have to admit I got a little hyped with this first effort from him - the Superman, the miming of a monster takeoff, the crowd getting on their feet, and a payoff with a big throwdown. I understood the positive judge response from that play.

Even if you don't find the evidence convincing enough to conclude that the winner was predetermined before the contest actually began, Blake was going to reach the Kia-dunk final, barring a completely catastrophic performance. Ad campaigns (and dunk contests) aren't put together in a day. The fact that Griffin didn't sign his long-term deal with Kia until July of that year doesn't prove that it wasn't in the works much earlier. The saving grace of that win was that he deserved it on merit anyway.

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I do not think there any fixing here. I do believe, however, that Kia and whoever else was involved in this scenario thought Blake Griffin would be about the safest bet of reaching the dunk contest finals since Vince Carter.

And I feel, if catastrophe did occur and Griffin missed the finals, the "car dunk" would have been one of the secrets of the world of "NBA What-ifs". It probably would have been more legendary had he not actually attempted the dunk. Had he missed the 2nd round and people later discovered a car were involved in his final round slam plans, people's imaginations would have gone wild and probably assumed he wasn't planning a mere two hand dunk.

The real travesty was "Krypto-Nate and Superman" in 2009. The winner wasn't predetermined then either, but the final participants definitely were. Even if you consider the evidence to be more purely circumstantial, watch it again and you'll see the strongest circumstantial evidence in the history of inconsequential sports sideshows (excluding those that are openly predetermined, because they can choose to go hog-wild with foreshadowing as it suits them).

Everyone had a decent first dunk (Dwight somehow got a 50, despite his dunk not standing out in any way from the others), but only Rudy Fernandez was openly mocked. His tribute to the deceased Spanish legend Fernando Martin was initially misunderstood and trivialized (the production team clearly knew about it, shouldn't the guys have been informed and asked to lay off the jokes at least during that moment?), then the graphic they put up about Martin obscured the first element of Rudy's attempt (the behind the back, off the backboard toss). Kevin Harlan tried to redeem the tribute and allow the others to save face, but by then they were just stepping on the dunk itself. Adding insult to injury, Kenny Smith immediately dismissed the dunk by saying "Rex Chapman did that...maybe in the early 90's, and did it better", which was both unfair as it was the only strongly negative comment following any of the 4 relatively equal first dunks, and untrue in that the dunks weren't identical (different takeoff side, toss, and finishes [1x basic one-hand, 1x two-hand reverse]) when Rex did what Kenny was referring to, and Rudy's effort was more difficult and the finish much more explosive than either of Chapman's, looking back at all 3.

In the second round, Rudy was again torn down completely before and throughout his misses, starting with Kenny's "I thought I had skinny legs...", to Reggie Miller's "he's going to throw his arm out...", back to Kenny and Kevin for "his hands are too small...he can't even hold the ball", to questioning his athleticism and stamina, having Pau Gasol rather than a Blazer pass to him (even though his chemistry/communication with Pau is probably much better after years together playing for Spain), suggesting he should put on his street clothes and give it up, etc.
When he finally did complete it on his first "extra" attempt, it would be easily the best dunk of the round, and because it was first, the others should have been scored much lower by comparison and it should have stood as such. Not surprisingly, it received a mediocre score which they justified by citing the misses. That reasoning would be understandable if not for the timed/limited attempt format, which wasn't violated, and the sharply contrasted response that Nate received in both receiving a high score and being glorified for his exceptional stamina when he completed a nice dunk after multiple misses in an earlier year. Both guys have everybody doubting them, but only the shorter dude is impressive when he overcomes those doubts?

JR Smith had to settle for a far lesser 2nd dunk than his original idea (albeit off an eventually decent from-the-crowd-toss by Sonny Weems), and the result was extremely underwhelming.

Dwight pulled out a more elaborate (but completely expected) version of the previous year's Superman schtick, and the exciting (and unexpected) arrival of the taller second basket set a promising scene, but he completely killed any excitement with the most rushed and basic dunk possible given the setup and circumstances. He ridiculously received another 50, this time essentially just for jumping high while wearing a cape.

Nate was the major disappointment though. The only way he could have saved the poor concept of the step-up dunk was to wear an adult-sized diaper, onesie, or footie pajamas for some added humor. When he'd already established that he can jump with anybody, there was no point in going backwards and pretending that he needed a boost. As it was, the dunk might have been the dumbest thing in the history of the contest - and yet immediately after leaving that steaming pile on the court (this is not a shot at his step-stool Wilson Chandler), possibly before he even knew his score, he left for the locker room to change into his "Krypto-Nate" getup. I don't think it was SWAG telling him to do that. Kenny praised the dunk for its "risk factor", but kudos to Reggie for telling the truth about the dunk's lameness and seeming to go off script by doubting whether Nate should believe he'd advanced.

The most shameful, undeserved, and obviously fixed final was locked into history. The win was really irrelevant at that point.

I wouldn't care that Rudy had been (mostly playfully) disrespected, if it had been directed at everyone present like most of the TNT crew's humor, but Kenny in particular was obviously in the bag for Dwight and Nate, leading a clear narrative, as he does in every rigged/semi-rigged dunk contest, and J.R. apparently had too much dunk cred for anyone to slag him for any reason other than his choice of Weems as a passer. They were really singling out just one guy for ridicule, and whether that was intentional/premeditated or not, it seemed very unprofessional, even by their enjoyably loose standards. That disrespect, along with getting the short end of the stick from the judges (his scores wouldn't have been innappropriate in a one-man dunk exhibition, but given the context of 50 point scores awarded to inferior dunks by an unmotivated competitor who knew he was advancing no matter what and performed like it, they're shameful) would have been bad enough, but he was also planning to pull out a Djalminha dunk in the final, (which would have temporarily satisfied many of the folks that complain about a lack of originality in the dunk contest). To miss that, all in the name of a contrived pseudo-comic-book-narrative, put the last of my childlike innocence regarding honest sporting competition on life support.

First, I completely agree that it sucked to see Nate Robinson and Dwight Howard square off in 2009. The jump-off-the-back dunk, as you said, was embarrassing and ridiculous. And I know there was more I hated, I'd just have to watch the contest in full once again to remember everything.

With that said, as a completely neutral, outside guy here, it sort of feels to me like you are a very big fan of Rudy Fernandez and are therefore very slanted and hyper-sensitive in your opinion of his appearance in the 2009 dunk contest. I have followed NBA Dunk Contests very closely over the years and you may have as well, so if we're honest with ourselves, we should be able to recall countless years and individual players who, for whatever reason, just did not find themselves in the favor the TNT crew. Lame dunks, poor style or flair, confusing homages, whatever you want to call it.

Sometimes it just doesn't work out for some players. Darrell Armstrong's still being ripped to this day despite throwing down a pretty nice slam in his appearance (and barely missing some others). Cedric Ceballos won in '92 and he's still mocked by the TNT crew. Even dunk legend Desmond Mason, was openly mocked for his "Dixie Cup" attempt at Julius Erving's cuff jam. The list goes on for days.

To be completely honest, Rudy Fernandez's first dunk was essentially a routine one-hand slam. As a pretty normal 6'3'' dunk, I'd say that's one of the most makeable dunks I've ever seen in the NBA dunk contest (in terms of what I could throw down myself). It'd definitely be a lot easier to make than Rex Chapman's self pass reverse. So, whatever you want to call it, the supporting commentary team didn't get the jersey reference (nor did the crowd, just Harlan) and while they were confused, Fernandez threw down a one-hand jam.

Rudy's second dunk received a lot of surprise and respect in the dunk community. After the routine first jam, many folks were not expecting him to pull out something so creative. Unfortunately, with absolutely no momentum and hype from his first dunk, combined with zero flair, and 2:00 worth of misses, the dunk just did not affect us like it could have. It's the same reason half of Nate Robinson's dunks always made me sick to my stomach. Only, Nate Robinson rode the hype behind his height (and his peppy attitude0 for as long as he participated in the contest.

Also, TNT's ridiculous schtick has always been to criticize the passer in an alley-oop if it's anyone but that team's point guard. Even back in 2000, there were "He might pass it to the rim, Danny!" lines about Allen Iverson working with Larry Hughes. They then repeated the routine year after year from then on forward.

I wish to write more, but I am in a rush, so I apologize for my typos in advance.

[The 24th Letter]

Griffins first attempt of his 360 dunk would've been so nasty if he hasn't missed it...the angle on that was just perfect and looked different than anything I've seen before

Dwight Howard's Superman dunk was more about the moment then than the analytics if the dunk for me...that was just a fun contest...so it's definitely in my top 10...his dunks prior to that we're pretty creative too.

[VDusen04]

Re: 2013 Dunk Contestees

Griffins car and Howard with the first superman dunk were real overrated.

When a guy misses a dunk(but ball goes in the net) during dunk contest, commentators bash that guy, but when Howard did it, they loved him.

Real quick, the difference between Howard's dunk and other player's misses is he was still able to throw it down with authority, which is what I feel the point of a dunk was supposed to be in its infancy. I think the point of a dunk is more about forcing it into the hoop as opposed to touching your hand on the rim. As such, when a player like Jason Richardson more or less bounces in an attempted free throw line dunk ('02 Wheel), making the shot but with no force and authority, it most certainly will not have the same effect as someone powering one through like Howard did.

[SteelersFreak]

Re: 2013 Dunk Contestees

Surprised the 2011 contest hasn't been discussed more. Is it just pretty much accepted at this point that the thing was completely rigged?

[Majingir]

Re: 2013 Dunk Contestees

Surprised the 2011 contest hasn't been discussed more. Is it just pretty much accepted at this point that the thing was completely rigged?

I mentioned it awhile back, 2011 contest was stupid. DeRozan got screwed(likely why he didn't come back in 2012). Griffin got 1 point higher(1 judge gave him a 10 on what clearly was a 9 dunk) than DeRozan(meaning Griffin advanced to finals instead of a dunk off,where judging would be exposed as cheating if it's 1 on 1 dunkoff and Griffin won with worse dunk)

DeRozan is the first/only guy in NBA history to get a 50 and NOT make it to the next round. So that proves just how terrible the judges were. How does a guy who gets a 50, not make it to next round? He got one 8 on what was a 9 dunk(as rated by all other judges), and Griffin gets one 10 on what was a 9 dunk(as rated by all other judges).

I wonder if the same judge who gave DeRozan an 8 gave Blake a 10(I'll watch contest later and see)

[Streaky McFloorburn]

Re: 2013 Dunk Contestees

You appear so strong in your beliefs on all these matters that I am unsure if there's a point in responding to them but for the love of message boarding, I press on. I did not find Dwight Howard's dunk to be a "child-like miscalculation". I also do not think he meant to throw it in before approaching, but I do not see how his improvisation was child-like. He pushed himself to the limit and attempted to jump from very far away off of two feet. Even if folks do not like the jam, I do not see it as a failure. He could have taken off from a step further in and dunked it in a traditional manner, but instead he upped the ante and tried to go even further out - and he still threw it down with incredible authority.

And again, it was essentially a monster one-hand oop. I understand that. If I had to make a top ten list of dunk contest dunks, that one would not have come to mind. However, I understand it. We know Howard is corny now, and we know he'd eventually run gimmicks into the ground. But at the time, I have to admit I got a little hyped with this first effort from him - the Superman, the miming of a monster takeoff, the crowd getting on their feet, and a payoff with a big throwdown. I understood the positive judge response from that play.

I thought Dwight's overall performance was very good that year, and I too got hyped for the whole Superman thing. But to me, the result of that dunk was a letdown because it felt like if the exact same outcome had occurred for any dunker not wearing a superhero costume, they get docked points for it, instead of being awarded a 50.

When I say child-like, I mean it in both good and bad ways. Improvisation is an ability I admire very much, but I'm also talking about if for example, a kid had to clean their room by a certain time to be allowed to do something they're looking forward to, and instead of cleaning the whole thing, they mess around for a while, clean some of it, and then push the rest under the bed when they realize they won't finish on time. Good on 'em if they can get away it with I guess, but I also feel a sense of injustice imagining the brother/friend who got caught because his parents were more observant. Both kids did the same thing, but one was rewarded and one punished.

I see Dwight getting a 50 for that as being the kid with inattentive parents, but a Jamario Moon wouldn't have gotten away with it.

That's what I meant by child-like cover up.

First, I completely agree that it sucked to see Nate Robinson and Dwight Howard square off in 2009. The jump-off-the-back dunk, as you said, was embarrassing and ridiculous. And I know there was more I hated, I'd just have to watch the contest in full once again to remember everything.

With that said, as a completely neutral, outside guy here, it sort of feels to me like you are a very big fan of Rudy Fernandez and are therefore very slanted and hyper-sensitive in your opinion of his appearance in the 2009 dunk contest. I have followed NBA Dunk Contests very closely over the years and you may have as well, so if we're honest with ourselves, we should be able to recall countless years and individual players who, for whatever reason, just did not find themselves in the favor the TNT crew. Lame dunks, poor style or flair, confusing homages, whatever you want to call it.

Watching it live, I only remember being disillusioned by the apparent fix and the lackluster dunks that the finalists got in with.

When I went back for a close re-watching of the whole sordid affair to make sure my memories weren't overblown, that's when I specifically became offended by the treatment of Rudy Fernandez. As I said toward the end of my post, I feel like his scores were more than fair absent comparison to other dunkers, but given the context, it felt like he was specifically being targeted for ridicule so that TV viewers would think he didn't perform well and accept the results.

Sometimes it just doesn't work out for some players. Darrell Armstrong's still being ripped to this day despite throwing down a pretty nice slam in his appearance (and barely missing some others). Cedric Ceballos won in '92 and he's still mocked by the TNT crew. Even dunk legend Desmond Mason, was openly mocked for his "Dixie Cup" attempt at Julius Erving's cuff jam. The list goes on for days.

I think those overall performances do deserve some teasing (at least Ceballos, that dunk was more comedy than athletic spectacle). My problem is that there are dunkers who were given favorable treatment for equally poor performances.

To be completely honest, Rudy Fernandez's first dunk was essentially a routine one-hand slam. As a pretty normal 6'3'' dunk, I'd say that's one of the most makeable dunks I've ever seen in the NBA dunk contest (in terms of what I could throw down myself). It'd definitely be a lot easier to make than Rex Chapman's self pass reverse. So, whatever you want to call it, the supporting commentary team didn't get the jersey reference (nor did the crowd, just Harlan) and while they were confused, Fernandez threw down a one-hand jam.

Still, the pass wasn't basic, the catch was good, and he dunked it pretty hard. All that on his first attempt. I could never dunk on a 10 foot rim, but I have enough experience at lower heights to know that there's no technical aspect of a reverse that makes it physically harder. What exactly is it about Rex's dunk that you find difficult? I reviewed both dunks and found his execution to be very meh, even compared to Rudy's, although I admit that it could have a lot to do with improved replay angles/production values.

As far as the Martin tribute, I think it probably true that Harlan was the only one with someone in his ear feeding him info, but that doesn't change the fact that they had a graphic ready to go. Someone knew in advance about who he was. I think that if you know your personnel, and that they're likely to crack on anyone or anything, you tell them in advance about the fallen Spanish basketball icon. I see that specific part as a failing of the producers, not the on-air personalities.

Rudy's second dunk received a lot of surprise and respect in the dunk community. After the routine first jam, many folks were not expecting him to pull out something so creative. Unfortunately, with absolutely no momentum and hype from his first dunk, combined with zero flair, and 2:00 worth of misses, the dunk just did not affect us like it could have. It's the same reason half of Nate Robinson's dunks always made me sick to my stomach. Only, Nate Robinson rode the hype behind his height (and his peppy attitude for as long as he participated in the contest.

This is just another case of me not liking double-standards. If it went the other way, I would have had just as much to say about it. You've probably seen enough of my posts to know that I get real busy with any subject I feel strongly enough about to comment on. I do have a rather large soft spot for the Blazers, but I'll defend any player whose game I know/appreciate, and I'm willing to do an obscene amount of research to learn about the players I'm not as familiar with.
Again, it's not Rudy's score alone that presents any problem, it's the fact that there is no consistent standard in the judging. His dunk was the first of the round, so regardless of whether there was any hype left when he made it, they still should have been able to compare the rest of the dunks to it and score them accordingly.

That woeful inconsistency along with the obvious narrative and Kenny Smith's transparent certainty of the outcomes throughout are what offended me the most at the time, but the slights against Fernandez were picked up on as I was re-watching/writing, so they were very fresh in my mind.

[VDusen04]

Re: 2013 Dunk Contestees

I thought Dwight's overall performance was very good that year, and I too got hyped for the whole Superman thing. But to me, the result of that dunk was a letdown because it felt like if the exact same outcome had occurred for any dunker not wearing a superhero costume, they get docked points for it, instead of being awarded a 50.

When I say child-like, I mean it in both good and bad ways. Improvisation is an ability I admire very much, but I'm also talking about if for example, a kid had to clean their room by a certain time to be allowed to do something they're looking forward to, and instead of cleaning the whole thing, they mess around for a while, clean some of it, and then push the rest under the bed when they realize they won't finish on time. Good on 'em if they can get away it with I guess, but I also feel a sense of injustice imagining the brother/friend who got caught because his parents were more observant. Both kids did the same thing, but one was rewarded and one punished.

I see Dwight getting a 50 for that as being the kid with inattentive parents, but a Jamario Moon wouldn't have gotten away with it.

That's what I meant by child-like cover up.

Yeah, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. Hype and excitement definitely matters though, so I agree Moon's slam may have been received a little differently without all the pomp and circumstance. But the dunk itself, I would have respected regardless of who made it. It was a pretty authoritative and nasty throwdown off of a pretty lengthy takeoff.[/quote]

Watching it live, I only remember being disillusioned by the apparent fix and the lackluster dunks that the finalists got in with.

When I went back for a close re-watching of the whole sordid affair to make sure my memories weren't overblown, that's when I specifically became offended by the treatment of Rudy Fernandez. As I said toward the end of my post, I feel like his scores were more than fair absent comparison to other dunkers, but given the context, it felt like he was specifically being targeted for ridicule so that TV viewers would think he didn't perform well and accept the results.

Yeah, and you're more than welcome to your opinions. It is merely my opinion that you may be overthinking this one a little. I did not really feel like Fernandez was being unfairly targeted at all, much less to fit everything into some pre-conceived TNT conspiracy. That's a little wild. Also, only 3 of the 8 first round scores came in above 43 points. No one was really lighting the night on fire. But just because some announcers joked about Fernandez more than J.R. Smith does not convince me they all were specifically targeting Fernandez, as if there was a vendetta of some kind.

I think those overall performances do deserve some teasing (at least Ceballos, that dunk was more comedy than athletic spectacle). My problem is that there are dunkers who were given favorable treatment for equally poor performances.

Some people get teased than shouldn't. Some don't get teased who should. In the end, it's just random guys on TNT saying things.

Still, the pass wasn't basic, the catch was good, and he dunked it pretty hard. All that on his first attempt. I could never dunk on a 10 foot rim, but I have enough experience at lower heights to know that there's no technical aspect of a reverse that makes it physically harder. What exactly is it about Rex's dunk that you find difficult? I reviewed both dunks and found his execution to be very meh, even compared to Rudy's, although I admit that it could have a lot to do with improved replay angles/production values.

As someone who can dunk on a 10 foot rim, I must say I believe the toughest part of Rudy's slam was the pass. At its essence, it was a routine off the backboard one hand dunk. The pass was more impressive than the slam conversion itself. Yes, it was powerful, but tossing the ball off the backboard then making a one hand dunk is awfully standard.

Rex Chapman's dunk wasn't incredible. I cited its superiority over Rudy's slam only to illustrate how bland I felt Rudy's dunk was. Some people are reverse dunking naturals but more often, people tend to be able to more easily throwdown a one hand dunk before they can make a two hand reverse dunk. Personally, I can throw down one hand dunks, bounce dunks, off-back-board dunks, and even 270 dunks but for some reason, my 180 reverses are awkward and sucky. A reverse, even if minimally so, is going to be more difficult to pull off than a one hand dunk.

As far as the Martin tribute, I think it probably true that Harlan was the only one with someone in his ear feeding him info, but that doesn't change the fact that they had a graphic ready to go. Someone knew in advance about who he was. I think that if you know your personnel, and that they're likely to crack on anyone or anything, you tell them in advance about the fallen Spanish basketball icon. I see that specific part as a failing of the producers, not the on-air personalities.

Maybe so, but that stuff happens. It literally felt no different than the hundreds of other times where a live basketball broadcast messes up a little bit.

This is just another case of me not liking double-standards. If it went the other way, I would have had just as much to say about it. You've probably seen enough of my posts to know that I get real busy with any subject I feel strongly enough about to comment on. I do have a rather large soft spot for the Blazers, but I'll defend any player whose game I know/appreciate, and I'm willing to do an obscene amount of research to learn about the players I'm not as familiar with.
Again, it's not Rudy's score alone that presents any problem, it's the fact that there is no consistent standard in the judging. His dunk was the first of the round, so regardless of whether there was any hype left when he made it, they still should have been able to compare the rest of the dunks to it and score them accordingly.

Again, that's kind of just how it's always been. The scoring system is an imperfect system and it just is what it is. The type of dunk, how it's dunked, the player's flair, the player's "swag", the crowd support, and many other small factors all tend to play a role.

All things considered, regardless of voting, I don't think Rudy's performance was stellar. As such, even if the judging of Robinson's terrible dunk and Howard's overrating never happened, I still don't think Fernandez was deserving of advancing.

That woeful inconsistency along with the obvious narrative and Kenny Smith's transparent certainty of the outcomes throughout are what offended me the most at the time, but the slights against Fernandez were picked up on as I was re-watching/writing, so they were very fresh in my mind.

At the end of the day, it is just NBA All-Star Weekend. The conspiracies, the vendettas, the favortism, the fixes, it's all a little heavy for me. I really do think it's possible it's just a couple of dorks (Kenny Smith, Chuck, and the bunch) popping off at the mouth during a weekend of festivities that, in the end, don't matter for much of anything.

[Majingir]

Re: 2013 Dunk Contestees

Based on dunk contest talks from today during rising stars game and celebrity game...White and Green getting lots of hype going in.

Hopefully it means nothing, but Green and Bledsoe were the only guys featured on the dunk contest screen graphic when they were advertising it.

[Rockie_Fresh88]

Re: 2013 Dunk Contestees

Paul George's glow in the dark was mad underrated !!

Its a popularity contest now I sware

[Majingir]

Re: 2013 Dunk Contestees

Paul George's glow in the dark was mad underrated !!

Its a popularity contest now I sware

Obviously. How else do you explain that almost every winner in dunk contest ever since fan voting was introduced, DIDN'T get the highest dunk scores.

Fan voting is stupidest thing ever. Not just NBA, but all over. Fan voting anywhere is just 1 big popularity contest, it's never based on skill or anything like that, just who the people watching likes more.

Fan voting has ruined the dunk contest, and I hope in 2014, they get rid of it.

And is voting in Canada even allowed for dunk contest? Cause in celebrity game and rising stars challenge, when telling people to text in their votes for MVP, both of them were only available to people in USA

If Ross doesn't make it to finals, I hope White does free throw line dunk. Cause I know anything close, I'll be biased towards Ross lol. So if Ross loses, I want him to lose cause of a crazy good dunk by someone else that beat out whatever Ross did.

Too many bad memories of dunk contests recently regarding Raptors players.Moon being eliminated cause a judge gave him an 8(if that judge gave him a 9 like all 4 others did,Moon would tie to advance),DeRozan losing cause of popularity contest in fan voting,then losing cause judges cheated Griffin(same as Moon,4/5 gave him 9s,while another gave DeRozan an 8,which cost him chance to force tiebreaker), so I hope dunk contest this year doesn't leave another bad memory.

[Streaky McFloorburn]

Re: 2013 Dunk Contestees

Yeah, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one. Hype and excitement definitely matters though, so I agree Moon's slam may have been received a little differently without all the pomp and circumstance. But the dunk itself, I would have respected regardless of who made it. It was a pretty authoritative and nasty throwdown off of a pretty lengthy takeoff.

From your first post I didn't get the impression that you were into the dunk at all. Now I see that you are, and that your assessment of it was exactly what you said and nothing more.

Yeah, and you're more than welcome to your opinions. It is merely my opinion that you may be overthinking this one a little. I did not really feel like Fernandez was being unfairly targeted at all, much less to fit everything into some pre-conceived TNT conspiracy. That's a little wild. Also, only 3 of the 8 first round scores came in above 43 points. No one was really lighting the night on fire. But just because some announcers joked about Fernandez more than J.R. Smith does not convince me they all were specifically targeting Fernandez, as if there was a vendetta of some kind.

It wouldn't be TNT's conspiracy. They're salesmen, not manufacturers.

The judges may have decided the final, but the fan vote determined the eventual winner. If Fernandez had made the final on merit (which would have happened with properly scaled 2nd dunk scoring), the commentators' constant negativity toward him could have unduly influenced impressionable fans. As I stated before, it doesn't matter whether there was premeditation or malice behind it, the effect would be identical.

If somebody offered you 4 similar looking products, but praised 2, said relatively little about about the 3rd, and then told you repeatedly that they had some doubts about the 4th one, can you honestly say you wouldn't have your own doubts about choosing it?
A subliminal message doesn't necessarily need to be delivered with intent to be effective, and I believe the cliche about the best salespeople being ones who believe in their products applies here.

It's not that there was a vendetta against Fernandez, it's that by degrading him, they promoted the other players by comparison. I never called it personal, just unprofessional - assuming that all 4 players are seen as marketable, it just doesn't seem like the NBA would want any of them to be portrayed as lesser, especially since Rudy was voted into the contest by fans in the first place - unless they were specifically giving a shine to Nate and Dwight.

Some people get teased than shouldn't. Some don't get teased who should. In the end, it's just random guys on TNT saying things.

I essentially agree with this. That's why I called the dunk contest "an inconsequential sporting sideshow." From a non-sports perspective it would sound like macho BS though. Am I wrong to worry about kids getting a bad example from ostensibly wholesome entertainment?

I can see that the 2009 contest was for me, the perfect storm of mediocre performance, one-sided commentary, and narrative coming before authenticity. It probably wasn't the worst dunk contest, but it was the only one I can remember that annoyed me more than it entertained me. I normally see being provoked to negative feelings as a indicator of something's effectiveness though, (better than being bored), so I guess it succeeded by being a lightning rod.

As someone who can dunk on a 10 foot rim, I must say I believe the toughest part of Rudy's slam was the pass. At its essence, it was a routine off the backboard one hand dunk. The pass was more impressive than the slam conversion itself. Yes, it was powerful, but tossing the ball off the backboard then making a one hand dunk is awfully standard.

Rex Chapman's dunk wasn't incredible. I cited its superiority over Rudy's slam only to illustrate how bland I felt Rudy's dunk was. Some people are reverse dunking naturals but more often, people tend to be able to more easily throwdown a one hand dunk before they can make a two hand reverse dunk. Personally, I can throw down one hand dunks, bounce dunks, off-back-board dunks, and even 270 dunks but for some reason, my 180 reverses are awkward and sucky. A reverse, even if minimally so, is going to be more difficult to pull off than a one hand dunk.

You can't dismiss the pass though. Everything up to the finish itself is just window dressing by that logic. You also shouldn't assume that Kenny was talking about the 2 hand reverse in 1990, as Rex did the same thing with a basic one-handed finish in another dunk contest.

I respect your knowledge of dunking, but I strongly believe that if we were to analyze the technical elements of each dunk by Olympic-style degree of difficulty and execution standards, there would be no justification for calling either Chapman dunk "better" than Fernandez's.

In any case, I fully agree that none of them were exceptional.

Maybe so, but that stuff happens. It literally felt no different than the hundreds of other times where a live basketball broadcast messes up a little bit.

It was no different in terms of intent, but I'd personally feel a lot worse trivializing a deceased person that was loved by millions, than just messing up a name or getting a stat wrong, and there's a much bigger chance that someone's feelings were hurt by it.

Mainly it was an opportunity missed. In an event that has no inherent gravitas whatsoever, it's too bad they couldn't get the one reflective moment right.

Again, that's kind of just how it's always been. The scoring system is an imperfect system and it just is what it is. The type of dunk, how it's dunked, the player's flair, the player's "swag", the crowd support, and many other small factors all tend to play a role.

Should that be acceptable though? I mentioned using Olympic-style scoring before - I bet that if the dunk contest were scored like a gymnastics event, we'd see rapid incremental advancement in the limits of dunking ability and technical competence. At least it'd be worth trying once.

Is there anyone that believes the dunk contest has ever been as good as it can be, format-wise?

All things considered, regardless of voting, I don't think Rudy's performance was stellar. As such, even if the judging of Robinson's terrible dunk and Howard's overrating never happened, I still don't think Fernandez was deserving of advancing.

I never said it was stellar. I repeatedly said only that it deserved better in comparison to the other dunks, and that I wanted to see the Djalminha dunk he'd previously said he was going to do in the final.

Not deserving? Earlier you agreed that:

"The jump-off-the-back dunk, as you said, was embarrassing and ridiculous."

And also said:

" Rudy's second dunk received a lot of surprise and respect in the dunk community. After the routine first jam, many folks were not expecting him to pull out something so creative."

Something that we both feel was embarrassing and ridiculous was only scored one point worse than something you feel earned surprise and respect. If the former had been scored 4-5 points lower than the latter, which would have been more than justified - Nate doesn't advance, and J.R. Smith gets in by a point over Rudy. But J.R.'s 2nd dunk was also extremely underwhelming, and shouldn't have been scored equally to his 1st dunk.

Considering this evidence, how can you say Rudy didn't deserve to advance?

At the end of the day, it is just NBA All-Star Weekend. The conspiracies, the vendettas, the favortism, the fixes, it's all a little heavy for me. I really do think it's possible it's just a couple of dorks (Kenny Smith, Chuck, and the bunch) popping off at the mouth during a weekend of festivities that, in the end, don't matter for much of anything.

It matters, because if I'm right, the NBA is getting pretty brazen in its deceiving of unsuspecting fans. It's not like I had to squint to see the conspiracy angle. Even if the only sign was collusion between Nate and Dwight in the final, it still shows that they were pretty sure they would both get there.

It matters, because if I'm wrong, the event was still getting judged like a drunk uncle shouting at the TV. Also, if there's no predetermination in the 2009 dunk contest, that may mean Kenny Smith is clairvoyant. Does that sound more plausible?

It matters because truly great dunk contests are like unicorns.

Don't you want to increase the odds of seeing another one? Is that cause helped by accepting mediocrity no matter how it's packaged?

It doesn't take a tinfoil hat to know that sporting events have been fixed in the past - just a quick look at history and an even quicker acknowledgement of the corrupting influence of money. If the worst example was an NBA dunk contest, I wouldn't care. But if you think billions of dollars couldn't taint more "important" contests, or that some level of manipulation doesn't happen with a surprising amount of regularity, then I guess you really must chalk it up to me seeing what I want to see.

I can appreciate taking an innocent-until-proven-guilty stance on sports. I can especially appreciate viewing them as WWE-style entertainment and caring about elite athleticism but not honestly earned outcomes. What I can't abide is entertainment claiming to be legitimate competition despite compelling evidence to the contrary, and when people who probably aren't in on the fix appear to be victimized by it. It would be incredibly shortsighted to assume that the only incidents of corruption in the history of sports are the ones that were exposed. The sad truth is that many unseemly things are at least partially revealed, yet people ignore the evidence (they're perfectly happy accepting the NBA's story of Tim Donaghy being a "rogue official") and go on believing unless/until the truth finally becomes too obvious to deny.

For whatever it's worth, I do see it as more egotistical on my part to believe things are fixed (meaning I could potentially have some huge influence on outcomes if I knew the right person to throw money at, or make a fortune gambling if I cracked the "code"), than if all professional sports were pure (meaning I have no control over the outcomes other than going to games and cheering/heckling, unless I take up some form of sports administration and excel at it.)

[Rockie_Fresh88]

Re: 2013 Dunk Contestees

I really think the dunk contest will be good this year!!!

No super huge names dominating making it a popularity show(as much)

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Use the sticky now

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