2014 Draft Discussion

[ehh]

Re: 2014 Draft Class

I just don't see bright NBA futures for anyone on UK besides Randle. I'm sure WCS, the Harrisons and Young will be on rosters but I'm not sure that any will be starters or even rotation guys.

It's not a knock on UK or Calipari, more of a sign of how terrible HS recruiting rankings are and how much of a mess youth development in the US is.

The first time you saw the Harrisons or Dakari Johnson in a college game you knew they weren't going to be great college players as freshman and definitely not NBA-ready. Same for other recent guys they've had like Poythress, Marcus Lee, etc. Archie Goodwin is in and out of the D-League.

99% of these "elite" HS recruits still need 2-3 years to develop.

[Majingir]

Re: 2014 Draft Class

Someone on Reddit made a weighted list of draft prospects based on various expert rankings.

I really like the Raptors' position in the draft. If they're around 20, they could end up with McDermott, Hood, LaVine, or Stauskas, my favorite 4 prospects.

Also interesting to see that Randle is averaged out to be #9 and Smart is ahead of Wiggins.

If Raptors get eliminated in first round, they'll likely be 18th-19th pick. If they get eliminated in 2nd round, they'll be 23rd-24th pick.

But Raptors need to draft either a big man or a SF(not a SF who plays PF), either a C/PF or a SF. I'd prefer them drafting a big man,but doesn't seem like it could be possible based on where they'll likely pick and who's going around then. Though Willie Cauley-Stein seems like he could be a good guy to draft.

[Skuxx24]

Re: 2014 Draft Class

I just don't see bright NBA futures for anyone on UK besides Randle. I'm sure WCS, the Harrisons and Young will be on rosters but I'm not sure that any will be starters or even rotation guys.

It's not a knock on UK or Calipari, more of a sign of how terrible HS recruiting rankings are and how much of a mess youth development in the US is.

The first time you saw the Harrisons or Dakari Johnson in a college game you knew they weren't going to be great college players as freshman and definitely not NBA-ready. Same for other recent guys they've had like Poythress, Marcus Lee, etc. Archie Goodwin is in and out of the D-League.

99% of these "elite" HS recruits still need 2-3 years to develop.

This is so true AAU ball has sort of ruined the development of young players in the sense that guys are not getting taught the fundamentals and when they come up against equal it better competition they look average. That why I'm a supporter of the NBA making college players stay at least 2-3 years. Or if guys don't want to stay that long have like a d league draft and make sure they stay a year at least in the d league before making the jump to the NBA so they can play against veteran players and have the older guys to teach them the ropes.

There no more leadership guys in the NBA anymore remember T-Mac saying on open court in Toronto that he had guys like Oakley and Antonio Davis to help mentor him and teach him the NBA life. Now your considered a veteran player at 25 that's crazy to me.

[AC]

Re: 2014 Draft Class

If Raptors get eliminated in first round, they'll likely be 18th-19th pick. If they get eliminated in 2nd round, they'll be 23rd-24th pick.

But Raptors need to draft either a big man or a SF(not a SF who plays PF), either a C/PF or a SF. I'd prefer them drafting a big man,but doesn't seem like it could be possible based on where they'll likely pick and who's going around then. Though Willie Cauley-Stein seems like he could be a good guy to draft.

Hood and Stauskas are ideal. We need a backup PG too though. WCS wouldn't be bad.

This is so true AAU ball has sort of ruined the development of young players in the sense that guys are not getting taught the fundamentals and when they come up against equal it better competition they look average.

Is AAU ball really that bad out in the states? In Canada, at least Toronto, it's really, really competitive and well coached. Very difficult to make.

[dsallupinyaarea]

Re: 2014 Draft Class

How is AAU ruining basketball when we're currently in a talent boom for the NBA? There's more talent today then there's been since Jordan.

I also don't get the stay in college 2 or 3 years thing. How are you going to become a better NBA player by doing everything but playing in the NBA?

[redsrule]

Re: 2014 Draft Class

Hood and Stauskas are ideal. We need a backup PG too though. WCS wouldn't be bad.



Is AAU ball really that bad out in the states? In Canada, at least Toronto, it's really, really competitive and well coached. Very difficult to make.

AAU basketball is ruining the game imo. They teach no fundamentals, no defense.

[AC]

Re: 2014 Draft Class

AAU basketball is ruining the game imo. They teach no fundamentals, no defense.

Wow, pretty much the opposite up here. Maybe it's just your area? Although I doubt Canada develops any big men any time soon, offense is run pretty much 100% through guards.

[Skuxx24]

Re: 2014 Draft Class

How is AAU ruining basketball when we're currently in a talent boom for the NBA? There's more talent today then there's been since Jordan.

I also don't get the stay in college 2 or 3 years thing. How are you going to become a better NBA player by doing everything but playing in the NBA?

Sorry should explained more clearly I think IMO of course that AAU has ruined the fundamental side of the game for me in terms of development of skills. There so many perimeter based players now which is fine for some people but I would say that there certain types of players we won't seeing anymore cause it not getting taught at the grassroots level like the Post up center or forward.

As for staying in college longer I get where your coming from I just think that if u were to stay a extra year it would help develop your game further and be more mature like the Harrisons for example if they came out right now honestly they would be mid to late 1st rounders if that. If they stayed the extra league or went and even played in the d league it would allow to hone there craft even more.

[dsallupinyaarea]

Re: 2014 Draft Class

Sorry should explained more clearly I think IMO of course that AAU has ruined the fundamental side of the game for me in terms of development of skills. There so many perimeter based players now which is fine for some people but I would say that there certain types of players we won't seeing anymore cause it not getting taught at the grassroots level like the Post up center or forward.

As for staying in college longer I get where your coming from I just think that if u were to stay a extra year it would help develop your game further and be more mature like the Harrisons for example if they came out right now honestly they would be mid to late 1st rounders if that. If they stayed the extra league or went and even played in the d league it would allow to hone there craft even more.

Isn't a straight post up one of the more inefficient possessions in basketball? It usually ends with a big shooting a mid range shot (bad expected value) or kicking out for a reset with 10 seconds left (not enough time to get into anything good) on the clock. Teams relied so heavily on the post game back in the day because they simply didn't know any better. Basketball has evolved. A lot. Post ups have a place in today's game but the nostalgia for it can get over the top at times.


This always becomes a catch 22 for the players. Those that stay 3-4 years get labeled "finished product, no upside, already 23, etc". When you look at where 3-4 year players get drafted, it seems even the NBA hates when these guys stay in college.

[Majingir]

Re: 2014 Draft Class

Hood and Stauskas are ideal. We need a backup PG too though. WCS wouldn't be bad.

Vasquez-Lowry PG combo is fine for Raptors, that's really the least of their worries right now. Other than shooting, there's not much else I'd fix on the Raptors PGs.

C is really their biggest need. Obviously won't get a starting C, but they need another big man on this team. If JV struggles, we are basically doomed at C. PF with Johnson,Hansbrough,Patterson is fine, and PG with Lowry,Vasquez is fine too. Backup C and starting SF are their main needs,and unless Raptors gonna be getting a top 10 pick in the draft somehow, they won't get a starting SF in it so might as well go after that C

[AC]

Re: 2014 Draft Class

Vasquez-Lowry PG combo is fine for Raptors, that's really the least of their worries right now.

I strongly dislike Vasquez for how much he'll likely command.

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2014 Draft Class

I strongly dislike Vasquez for how much he'll likely command.

Considering all trade rumors I'm sure Lowry leaves after this year anyways..you'll likely want them to pay Vasquez as a starter next season.

[AC]

Re: 2014 Draft Class

Considering all trade rumors I'm sure Lowry leaves after this year anyways..you'll likely want them to pay Vasquez as a starter next season.

This would terrify me. I trust that Masai will (would've) trade(d) him if he wasn't confident that Lowry would resign. If we're lose Lowry then at least draft a PG.

[redsrule]

Re: 2014 Draft Class

Chad Ford called James Young a "good" passer. I no longer believe anything Chad Ford says, James Young is the worst passer I have ever seen at Kentucky.

[ehh]

Re: 2014 Draft Class

How is AAU ruining basketball when we're currently in a talent boom for the NBA? There's more talent today then there's been since Jordan.

Because more and more foreign players are in the league.

We have guys like Amare Stoudemire and Mike Beasley saying they were never taught defense until the reached the NBA. How in the ****?

Seriously though, some AAU isn't bad. The lower level or "normal" programs do a decent job. It's the handful of big time ones that constantly are loaded with Top 150 recruits that are a mess. That's what I look at - how we're developing our top 100 or so HS seniors compared to how Europe does it.

Our philosophy is backwards in the US, play as many AAU games as possible and practice as little as possible. Europe does it the other way, have 5-6 practices a week and maybe a game or two. Long, hard practices that focus on developing fundamentals.

Most loaded AAU teams go around the country pounding on lesser teams in weekend tournaments. Play 3-5 games, win them all by 20+ points. How is that helping them at all? Exposure, exposure, exposure. Sweet, that's about it. A guy who's way more athletic than a bunch of D3 players they're facing in that AAU game looks really good! Cool! What can you really tell about a kid other than the fact that he has DI athleticism? You can't project much his long-term outlook unless it's a freak like LeBron. You don't know how he'll play a real basketball environment.

You don't see guys against real defenses in real college or NBA situations. You don't see scouting reports, or elaborate offenses that teach players to play without the ball. AAU is a joke for the most part, just like the D-League. It's a selfish, showcase atmosphere. It's main goal is exposure, not talent development.

Why do you think the talent gap has narrowed like crazy in the last 20 years? Granted we're still clearly the best and will remain because we have better athletes it's a lot closer than it should be.

Many of the bigger coaches are sleezy as hell looking out for their own interest. The guy from Canada that was pocketing tuition money from parents thinking they were sending their kids to a school that didn't exist in North Carolina? Only in AAU.