2014 Draft Discussion

[ehh]

Re: 2014 Draft Class

Isn't a straight post up one of the more inefficient possessions in basketball? It usually ends with a big shooting a mid range shot (bad expected value) or kicking out for a reset with 10 seconds left (not enough time to get into anything good) on the clock. Teams relied so heavily on the post game back in the day because they simply didn't know any better. Basketball has evolved. A lot. Post ups have a place in today's game but the nostalgia for it can get over the top at times.

So a dozen years ago Phil Jackson didn't know any better than giving it to Shaq as often as he could? The only guy that had a system that could win MJ and Shaq & Kobe titles didn't know any better? The same guy that was still winning titles five years ago? Okay.

Pop didn't know any better than running tons of offense through Duncan in the post/mid-post?

Let's be real, there are no true big men left and zone defense hasn't helped. Bynum had a shot but didn't give a ****. He showed flashes of dominance but didn't have the knees or the work ethic.

When a 37-year old (or whatever he is) Tim Duncan is still doing work in this league it lets you know how poor the traditional bigs are. All the new-age, flashy PF's out there yet Traditional Timmy is doing his thing and nearly won a title without a superstar on the roster.

[redsrule]

Re: 2014 Draft Class

Because more and more foreign players are in the league.

We have guys like Amare Stoudemire and Mike Beasley saying they were never taught defense until the reached the NBA. How in the ****?

Seriously though, some AAU isn't bad. The lower level or "normal" programs do a decent job. It's the handful of big time ones that constantly are loaded with Top 150 recruits that are a mess. That's what I look at - how we're developing our top 100 or so HS seniors compared to how Europe does it.

There are a bunch of "top" AAU programs that do it the right way as well. For the most part though they are awful. Teach no defense/fundamental and just try and get their guys some things to go on their "mix tape". The program Anthony Davis came from teaches the right way (Derrick Rose came from there too I think?) but AAU as a whole needs to get fixed from top to bottom. AAU isn't the only problem though, a lot of high schools are bad as well. They have kids year round for the most part, while AAU has them a few months in the summer.

[ehh]

Re: 2014 Draft Class

HS rules are far more restrictive though. Unless the rules of have changed the coaches can barely work with their players in the off season.

[redsrule]

Re: 2014 Draft Class

HS rules are far more restrictive though. Unless the rules of have changed the coaches can barely work with their players in the off season.

They still have them from August or so to May, which is a lot longer than the couple of months these AAU programs in the summer do. I think AAU is largely at blame, but it all shouldn't be on them. There are some very good events (Peach Jam) and coaches, but way too bad ones that focus on getting their guys the plays that will look good on Youtube.

[ehh]

Re: 2014 Draft Class

They still have them from August or so to May, which is a lot longer than the couple of months these AAU programs in the summer do.

Really? And coaches are allowed to workout players and the team? When I was in HS you could only have "captain's practice" outside of Thanksgiving through the end of your season. I remember my HS coach (who was also the gym teacher) going out of his way to make sure he wasn't in the gym when we were scrimmaging in Sept and Oct.

Maybe it varies state to state but I thought that was universal.

[redsrule]

Re: 2014 Draft Class

Really? And coaches are allowed to workout players and the team? When I was in HS you could only have "captain's practice" outside of Thanksgiving through the end of your season. I remember my HS coach (who was also the gym teacher) going out of his way to make sure he wasn't in the gym when we were scrimmaging in Sept and Oct.

Maybe it varies state to state but I thought that was universal.

You're probably right. But still, even Thanksgiving to when the season ends is more time than these AAU guys get. I'm not trying to take blame off them because the bad coaches/programs need to get outed so there can be a change. I'm hoping Adam Silver really pushes and gets a 2 year rule put in place. I think that'd help basketball a lot.

[phenom1990]

Re: 2014 Draft Class

The key to recruiting in college is less and less through developing relationships with their high school coaches and more with making sure you have a good relationship with their AAU coach.

I've watched a ton of AAU basketball over the last 4 years and while there are absolutely programs that do a good job, there are a lot of programs that do things the wrong way. From the lack of any offense being ran to coaches telling a player to stay on one side of the floor at the end of the game so he can get him "his dunk" to just a lot of other things I don't want to ramble on about with coaches attitudes, etc. Most of AAU basketball is run and gun and the main purpose of AAU basketball is to get exposure and not to actually win games. If I was a given a button to nuke AAU basketball, I would do it without hesitation and figure out how to restructure summer youth basketball in a much better way.

The thinking that the worst shots one can take are the mid range jump shots and or with your back to the basket is the result of the lack of development in these areas. If you don't develop those parts of your games, when you're forced to shoot them in a game; the results aren't going to be good because one would expect that if you shoot something you don't practice that you won't get a good result. In addition, since players aren't used to playing with someone with a back to a basket game; they don't always understand how to feed the post and how to play off it leading to more issues. While I understand the logic of teams wanting to only shoot 3's especially corner 3's, layups and free throws. The lack of development in the mid-range/post game is why teams are doing that more and more.

I've said this before but I would rather the NBA goes to a 20 year old limit than go back to 18. I understand the argument that some say you want to get players into the NBA development system sooner because of the 24/7 access to facilities, staff, etc. However when you get them at younger and younger ages; you have to teach them more and more of the fundamentals of the game. I read an article recently where NBA people have said they can only put in certain type of offenses because the players coming in don't know or understand anything else. In addition; who is to say that those players have the mental maturity to handle the responsibilities that come with being a millionaire athlete right out of high school.

I've read a number of articles where NBA people have complained about how much time they have to spend teaching players basic concepts. At the best level of basketball in the world you shouldn't have to waste time on these things. You also shouldn't have to waste time and money while a normal 18 year old goes through the maturation process that we all go through at that age. It's also an unfair criticism of college programs that they don't develop players; which I don't understand.

I understand that some say it should be 18 because of the way things work in this country, but it's not a god given right to play in the NBA. If you are so concerned about making money and playing basketball, you can go to the D-League or play overseas. The points about letting players into the NBA development system sooner brings out something I want to ask. Why not let someone declare for the NBA at 17 compared to 18? What is the difference with that? Jeremy Tyler didn't graduate HS. Overseas, their young players go into club systems from as early as age 14.

If you look at the San Antonio Spurs, the Spurs basically say no to American players because of the development system and the attitudes associated with. The Spurs go after International players because they deem them more "coachable" and the American players they do have, most of them played at least 2 years in college. The only guy I can think of who didn't was Stephen Jackson, who came out right out of HS.

[ehh]

Re: 2014 Draft Class

Preach, man. Preach.

[ehh]

Re: 2014 Draft Class

If I was a given a button to nuke AAU basketball, I would do it without hesitation and figure out how to restructure summer youth basketball in a much better way.

Camps have always been the way to go, I'd love to see them expanded. ABCD, Five-Star, Eastern Invitational, etc. I went to the later two when I was HS and both were amazing. Lectures from NBA and top college coaches, drills and stations all day and a couple of games. I was lucky enough to participate a lecture once where Pitino was teaching us how to use down screens and run a floppy set. That's just a little bit better than playing crappy AAU games.

In a fantasy world, and since Silver publicly stated that college basketball and youth basketball is a concern of his, I would love for the NBA to run a month-long summer camp. None of this sneaker camp nonsense.

For the month of July, invite the Top 100 seniors and Top 50 juniors. Run the camp-style atmosphere for a full month. A week is too short, give them several weeks and you're essentially simulating a good chunk of college and pro basketball & life off the court. Hours and hours of drills and lectures a day. A legitimate basketball academy. Have nightly open gym for scrimmaging and use the weekends for real games. Keep scores, standings etc. The whole nine. Play a morning/afternoon/night game on Saturday and Sunday for three weeks. That gives you 18 games, then the last week have a single-elimination tournament and crown a champion.

Kids play plenty of games and still spend a ton of time in drills and lectures, all in a much better environment than AAU.

It'd a big financial burden but the NBA can afford it.

[Rocky]

Re: 2014 Draft Class

So a dozen years ago Phil Jackson didn't know any better than giving it to Shaq as often as he could? The only guy that had a system that could win MJ and Shaq & Kobe titles didn't know any better? The same guy that was still winning titles five years ago? Okay.

Pop didn't know any better than running tons of offense through Duncan in the post/mid-post?

Let's be real, there are no true big men left and zone defense hasn't helped. Bynum had a shot but didn't give a ****. He showed flashes of dominance but didn't have the knees or the work ethic.

When a 37-year old (or whatever he is) Tim Duncan is still doing work in this league it lets you know how poor the traditional bigs are. All the new-age, flashy PF's out there yet Traditional Timmy is doing his thing and nearly won a title without a superstar on the roster.

In addition to that, I remember when kids all over Greenville used to play street ball against KG when he was younger. Those games weren't great fundamentally, but it was tough gritty ball. You really had to use your moves because there was hard-fouling and no illegal defense.

[cavsfan2]

Re: 2014 Draft Class

I'm not sure Wayne Seldon has dropped to 27 in draft express. He was a pretty high end recruit who took a backseat to some of the other players on his team and has played that role well and has improved on his jumper throughout the year

[cavsfan2]

Re: 2014 Draft Class

Wiggins has been showing why he is special today. West Virginia has been shooting the lights out and wiggins has been hustling with 3 blocks, one or two steals and fifteen points to keep his team in it in the first half
Edit: has 39 points on 11-14 shooting and a bunch of free throw

[redsrule]

Re: 2014 Draft Class

Andrew Wiggins showing why he should be #1 draft pick. He was a man today without Joel Embiid. If he plays aggressive all the time he can be great.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: 2014 Draft Class

The Wiggins topic is going to be one of the most polarizing topics in all of sports the next few years.

I can't wait to read the back and forth when he gets to the pros

Personally, I still don't know how I feel about how he projects.

[og236]

Re: 2014 Draft Class

Andrew Wiggins went off, my goodness lol


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