How good is Kobe?

**Dynasty4Kobe** · 06-09-2004, 01:25 AM

Re: How good is Kobe?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
immortal said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Dynasty4Kobe said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
immortal said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
LedouxRoc said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
immortal said:
Jordan's first 3-peat:
PG: John Paxson
SG: Jordan
SF: Scottie Pippen
PF: Horace Grant
C: Bill Cartwright

Kobe's Lakers:
PG: Gary Payton
SG: Kobe
SF: Devean George
PF: Karl Malone
C: Shaq

If I am not mistaken, the ONLY position the Bulls are better (excluding Kobe and MJ) is SF. And Shaq would DOMINATE any player on either team.

<hr /></blockquote>

Well that team is better too, but I was really talking about the Tony Kukuc, Dennis Rodman, Steve Kerr, Luc Longley team.

Remember bench, and yes Horace Grant was better than present Malone and Paxson was better than present Payton.

<hr /></blockquote>

This is a joke, right?
Horace Grant was a mediocre player AT BEST! Malone averaged 20 ppg and 10 rpg last year.
John Paxson was a 3-point shooter. THAT'S IT!!! He averaged about 7 ppg. Payton can score 20 ppg easily on a team without Kobe or Shaq.

<hr /></blockquote>

See that's where your argument goes wrong. Yes Malone averaged 20 and 10, but that was LAST YEAR. His role is different.
Look at Grant's numbers during that 1st three peat stretch and look at Malone's numbers this year:
Grant:
12.8 ppg, 8.40 rpg, 2.3 apg, 1.22 spg, .88 bpg
14.2 ppg, 10.00 rpg, 2.7 apg, 1.23 spg, 1.62 bpg
13.2 ppg, 9.50 bpg, 2.6 apg, 1.16 spg, 1.25 bpg

Malone:
13.2 ppg, 8.70 rpg, 3.9 apg, 1.19 spg, .48 bpg

Looking at the numbers, you can't say malone is as good as as you make him out to be (right now)

Payton is producing as much as Paxson so far in these playoffs.

But if you give these Lakers one more season, then they will be better.

<hr /></blockquote>

Payton and Malone are producing less because they have reduced roles. If you increase their roles, they can still score 20 ppg each. If you increase Horace Grant's role . . . wait a second, you can't increase Horace Grant's role because his role was already maximized due to the fact that he was a main offensive source on the Bulls. Kobe has this guy named Shaq.

<hr /></blockquote>

Yes, Payton and Malone don't have increased roles, but that's because of the team they are on. If everybody played to their maximum role, the Big 4 would average close to a 100 points by themselves. The fact is that on this team, Malone/Payton arn't 20+ scorers, so you can't say that they are. And saying that Grant wasn't at his maximum role is wrong. Grant went on to make the all-star team when Jordan retired for that one year. The Bulls went on to win 55 games that year and make it to Game 7 of EC semi-finals. Do you think that a Kobe-less Lakers team can lead the Lakers that far? They only won 56 WITH KOBE. Think about all the games that Kobe saved the Lakers in.

**LedouxRoc** · 06-09-2004, 01:28 AM

Re: How good is Kobe?

what about him? he's a scrub, big wow, there have been scrubs in the league for decades. heck everyone in the 50's and 60's were scrubs to me. They all had one hand and did slow spin moves where they had to look down at the ball while they dribbled it.

Face it, you're only remembering what you want to remember.

All about spacing. A lot less spacing these days.

**LedouxRoc** · 06-09-2004, 01:28 AM

Re: How good is Kobe?

what about him? he's a scrub, big wow, there have been scrubs in the league for decades. heck everyone in the 50's and 60's were scrubs to me. They all had one hand and did slow spin moves where they had to look down at the ball while they dribbled it.

Face it, you're only remembering what you want to remember.

All about spacing. A lot less spacing these days.

**LedouxRoc** · 06-09-2004, 01:28 AM

Re: How good is Kobe?

what about him? he's a scrub, big wow, there have been scrubs in the league for decades. heck everyone in the 50's and 60's were scrubs to me. They all had one hand and did slow spin moves where they had to look down at the ball while they dribbled it.

Face it, you're only remembering what you want to remember.

All about spacing. A lot less spacing these days.

**Leon** · 06-09-2004, 01:29 AM

Re: How good is Kobe?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Dynasty4Kobe said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
immortal said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Dynasty4Kobe said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
immortal said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
LedouxRoc said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
immortal said:
Jordan's first 3-peat:
PG: John Paxson
SG: Jordan
SF: Scottie Pippen
PF: Horace Grant
C: Bill Cartwright

Kobe's Lakers:
PG: Gary Payton
SG: Kobe
SF: Devean George
PF: Karl Malone
C: Shaq

If I am not mistaken, the ONLY position the Bulls are better (excluding Kobe and MJ) is SF. And Shaq would DOMINATE any player on either team.

<hr /></blockquote>

Well that team is better too, but I was really talking about the Tony Kukuc, Dennis Rodman, Steve Kerr, Luc Longley team.

Remember bench, and yes Horace Grant was better than present Malone and Paxson was better than present Payton.

<hr /></blockquote>

This is a joke, right?
Horace Grant was a mediocre player AT BEST! Malone averaged 20 ppg and 10 rpg last year.
John Paxson was a 3-point shooter. THAT'S IT!!! He averaged about 7 ppg. Payton can score 20 ppg easily on a team without Kobe or Shaq.

<hr /></blockquote>

See that's where your argument goes wrong. Yes Malone averaged 20 and 10, but that was LAST YEAR. His role is different.
Look at Grant's numbers during that 1st three peat stretch and look at Malone's numbers this year:
Grant:
12.8 ppg, 8.40 rpg, 2.3 apg, 1.22 spg, .88 bpg
14.2 ppg, 10.00 rpg, 2.7 apg, 1.23 spg, 1.62 bpg
13.2 ppg, 9.50 bpg, 2.6 apg, 1.16 spg, 1.25 bpg

Malone:
13.2 ppg, 8.70 rpg, 3.9 apg, 1.19 spg, .48 bpg

Looking at the numbers, you can't say malone is as good as as you make him out to be (right now)

Payton is producing as much as Paxson so far in these playoffs.

But if you give these Lakers one more season, then they will be better.

<hr /></blockquote>

Payton and Malone are producing less because they have reduced roles. If you increase their roles, they can still score 20 ppg each. If you increase Horace Grant's role . . . wait a second, you can't increase Horace Grant's role because his role was already maximized due to the fact that he was a main offensive source on the Bulls. Kobe has this guy named Shaq.

<hr /></blockquote>

Yes, Payton and Malone don't have increased roles, but that's because of the team they are on. If everybody played to their maximum role, the Big 4 would average close to a 100 points by themselves. The fact is that on this team, Malone/Payton arn't 20+ scorers, so you can't say that they are. And saying that Grant wasn't at his maximum role is wrong. Grant went on to make the all-star team when Jordan retired for that one year. The Bulls went on to win 55 games that year and make it to Game 7 of EC semi-finals. Do you think that a Kobe-less Lakers team can lead the Lakers that far? They only won 56 WITH KOBE. Think about all the games that Kobe saved the Lakers in.

<hr /></blockquote>

Injuries, my friend. While I'm glad that happened this season, for the sake of comparison, injuries have to be taken into account.

**Leon** · 06-09-2004, 01:29 AM

Re: How good is Kobe?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Dynasty4Kobe said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
immortal said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Dynasty4Kobe said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
immortal said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
LedouxRoc said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
immortal said:
Jordan's first 3-peat:
PG: John Paxson
SG: Jordan
SF: Scottie Pippen
PF: Horace Grant
C: Bill Cartwright

Kobe's Lakers:
PG: Gary Payton
SG: Kobe
SF: Devean George
PF: Karl Malone
C: Shaq

If I am not mistaken, the ONLY position the Bulls are better (excluding Kobe and MJ) is SF. And Shaq would DOMINATE any player on either team.

<hr /></blockquote>

Well that team is better too, but I was really talking about the Tony Kukuc, Dennis Rodman, Steve Kerr, Luc Longley team.

Remember bench, and yes Horace Grant was better than present Malone and Paxson was better than present Payton.

<hr /></blockquote>

This is a joke, right?
Horace Grant was a mediocre player AT BEST! Malone averaged 20 ppg and 10 rpg last year.
John Paxson was a 3-point shooter. THAT'S IT!!! He averaged about 7 ppg. Payton can score 20 ppg easily on a team without Kobe or Shaq.

<hr /></blockquote>

See that's where your argument goes wrong. Yes Malone averaged 20 and 10, but that was LAST YEAR. His role is different.
Look at Grant's numbers during that 1st three peat stretch and look at Malone's numbers this year:
Grant:
12.8 ppg, 8.40 rpg, 2.3 apg, 1.22 spg, .88 bpg
14.2 ppg, 10.00 rpg, 2.7 apg, 1.23 spg, 1.62 bpg
13.2 ppg, 9.50 bpg, 2.6 apg, 1.16 spg, 1.25 bpg

Malone:
13.2 ppg, 8.70 rpg, 3.9 apg, 1.19 spg, .48 bpg

Looking at the numbers, you can't say malone is as good as as you make him out to be (right now)

Payton is producing as much as Paxson so far in these playoffs.

But if you give these Lakers one more season, then they will be better.

<hr /></blockquote>

Payton and Malone are producing less because they have reduced roles. If you increase their roles, they can still score 20 ppg each. If you increase Horace Grant's role . . . wait a second, you can't increase Horace Grant's role because his role was already maximized due to the fact that he was a main offensive source on the Bulls. Kobe has this guy named Shaq.

<hr /></blockquote>

Yes, Payton and Malone don't have increased roles, but that's because of the team they are on. If everybody played to their maximum role, the Big 4 would average close to a 100 points by themselves. The fact is that on this team, Malone/Payton arn't 20+ scorers, so you can't say that they are. And saying that Grant wasn't at his maximum role is wrong. Grant went on to make the all-star team when Jordan retired for that one year. The Bulls went on to win 55 games that year and make it to Game 7 of EC semi-finals. Do you think that a Kobe-less Lakers team can lead the Lakers that far? They only won 56 WITH KOBE. Think about all the games that Kobe saved the Lakers in.

<hr /></blockquote>

Injuries, my friend. While I'm glad that happened this season, for the sake of comparison, injuries have to be taken into account.

**Leon** · 06-09-2004, 01:29 AM

Re: How good is Kobe?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Dynasty4Kobe said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
immortal said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Dynasty4Kobe said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
immortal said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
LedouxRoc said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
immortal said:
Jordan's first 3-peat:
PG: John Paxson
SG: Jordan
SF: Scottie Pippen
PF: Horace Grant
C: Bill Cartwright

Kobe's Lakers:
PG: Gary Payton
SG: Kobe
SF: Devean George
PF: Karl Malone
C: Shaq

If I am not mistaken, the ONLY position the Bulls are better (excluding Kobe and MJ) is SF. And Shaq would DOMINATE any player on either team.

<hr /></blockquote>

Well that team is better too, but I was really talking about the Tony Kukuc, Dennis Rodman, Steve Kerr, Luc Longley team.

Remember bench, and yes Horace Grant was better than present Malone and Paxson was better than present Payton.

<hr /></blockquote>

This is a joke, right?
Horace Grant was a mediocre player AT BEST! Malone averaged 20 ppg and 10 rpg last year.
John Paxson was a 3-point shooter. THAT'S IT!!! He averaged about 7 ppg. Payton can score 20 ppg easily on a team without Kobe or Shaq.

<hr /></blockquote>

See that's where your argument goes wrong. Yes Malone averaged 20 and 10, but that was LAST YEAR. His role is different.
Look at Grant's numbers during that 1st three peat stretch and look at Malone's numbers this year:
Grant:
12.8 ppg, 8.40 rpg, 2.3 apg, 1.22 spg, .88 bpg
14.2 ppg, 10.00 rpg, 2.7 apg, 1.23 spg, 1.62 bpg
13.2 ppg, 9.50 bpg, 2.6 apg, 1.16 spg, 1.25 bpg

Malone:
13.2 ppg, 8.70 rpg, 3.9 apg, 1.19 spg, .48 bpg

Looking at the numbers, you can't say malone is as good as as you make him out to be (right now)

Payton is producing as much as Paxson so far in these playoffs.

But if you give these Lakers one more season, then they will be better.

<hr /></blockquote>

Payton and Malone are producing less because they have reduced roles. If you increase their roles, they can still score 20 ppg each. If you increase Horace Grant's role . . . wait a second, you can't increase Horace Grant's role because his role was already maximized due to the fact that he was a main offensive source on the Bulls. Kobe has this guy named Shaq.

<hr /></blockquote>

Yes, Payton and Malone don't have increased roles, but that's because of the team they are on. If everybody played to their maximum role, the Big 4 would average close to a 100 points by themselves. The fact is that on this team, Malone/Payton arn't 20+ scorers, so you can't say that they are. And saying that Grant wasn't at his maximum role is wrong. Grant went on to make the all-star team when Jordan retired for that one year. The Bulls went on to win 55 games that year and make it to Game 7 of EC semi-finals. Do you think that a Kobe-less Lakers team can lead the Lakers that far? They only won 56 WITH KOBE. Think about all the games that Kobe saved the Lakers in.

<hr /></blockquote>

Injuries, my friend. While I'm glad that happened this season, for the sake of comparison, injuries have to be taken into account.

23 · 06-09-2004, 01:35 AM

Re: How good is Kobe?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
LedouxRoc said:
what about him? he's a scrub, big wow, there have been scrubs in the league for decades. heck everyone in the 50's and 60's were scrubs to me. They all had one hand and did slow spin moves where they had to look down at the ball while they dribbled it.

Face it, you're only remembering what you want to remember.

All about spacing. A lot less spacing these days.

<hr /></blockquote>

Name one team that plays better D than 89 Pistons and the Knicks of the 90's?

23 · 06-09-2004, 01:35 AM

Re: How good is Kobe?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
LedouxRoc said:
what about him? he's a scrub, big wow, there have been scrubs in the league for decades. heck everyone in the 50's and 60's were scrubs to me. They all had one hand and did slow spin moves where they had to look down at the ball while they dribbled it.

Face it, you're only remembering what you want to remember.

All about spacing. A lot less spacing these days.

<hr /></blockquote>

Name one team that plays better D than 89 Pistons and the Knicks of the 90's?

23 · 06-09-2004, 01:35 AM

Re: How good is Kobe?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
LedouxRoc said:
what about him? he's a scrub, big wow, there have been scrubs in the league for decades. heck everyone in the 50's and 60's were scrubs to me. They all had one hand and did slow spin moves where they had to look down at the ball while they dribbled it.

Face it, you're only remembering what you want to remember.

All about spacing. A lot less spacing these days.

<hr /></blockquote>

Name one team that plays better D than 89 Pistons and the Knicks of the 90's?

**GeePee20** · 06-09-2004, 01:37 AM

Re: How good is Kobe?

If Kobe doesn't even compare to Jordan, why is this thread over 180 posts in just 2.5 hours.

**GeePee20** · 06-09-2004, 01:37 AM

Re: How good is Kobe?

If Kobe doesn't even compare to Jordan, why is this thread over 180 posts in just 2.5 hours.

**GeePee20** · 06-09-2004, 01:37 AM

Re: How good is Kobe?

If Kobe doesn't even compare to Jordan, why is this thread over 180 posts in just 2.5 hours.

**jordan0386** · 06-09-2004, 01:39 AM

Re: How good is Kobe?

( i was thinking along those lines as well)

**jordan0386** · 06-09-2004, 01:39 AM

Re: How good is Kobe?

( i was thinking along those lines as well)

How good is Kobe?

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