2015 Offseason Thread

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  • King_B_Mack
    All Star
    • Jan 2009
    • 24450

    #721
    Re: 2015 Offseason Thread

    Originally posted by Cyrus09
    Don't really get all the hard cap and bird rights stuff so I just ask again: If the Cavs let Love walk, how many cap space have they? Or what kind of guys we talk about then?

    Lowe talked about that few weeks ago and said if they resign all guys that are on the squad right now they would pay more then Brooklyn in tax. Is this about right?
    It all can get kind of complicated, but the league doesn't have a hard cap per se. What they have is a tax apron which is always 4 million dollars above the luxury tax line. So you have the salary cap, then luxury tax (once your total player salaries exceed the luxury tax line, you have to pay a penalty as a result)then if your salaries cross the luxury apron you lose certain rights as a team such as the length of contracts you can give, the ability to do sign-and-trades and both the mid-level and bi-annual exceptions.

    Bird rights allow you to go over the salary cap to re-sign players. In order to gain bird rights a player must be on the same team for three consecutive years. This can be accomplished with a three year contract, four year, five year or three one year deals. Bird rights are tradeable, so say for example if the Bulls were to trade Joakim Noah this offseason to the Nuggets. Denver would get Noah and his bird rights since he's been with the Bulls eight years now. On the flip side, say Jimmy Butler left the Bulls this offseason as a free agent to sign with the Lakers for example. Signing with a new team as a free agent Jimmy and the Lakers would lose those Bird rights unless they got Chicago to do a sign-and-trade.

    Okay, with all that out of the way, your question. As of right now, taking all salaries on their roster into consideration including Love, LeBron, Mike Miller and JR's options the Cavs would have 9 players under contract next year totaling out to $101,743,467 next year's Luxury Tax line is projected to be 81.6 million

    JR has already said he's opting out, we don't know if Mike Miller will opt out, but assuming he does pick up his option and LeBron picks up his, with Love walking, then the Cavs would total out at $60,788,376. Now the problem with both those total salaries above is they don't account for what Tristan Thompson's new deal would be, Dellavedova's new deal if they re-sign him or what James Jones would get if they re-sign him.

    So recap. Next year's salary cap and luxury tax line is projected to be

    67.1 million dollar cap
    81.6 million dollar luxury tax

    If James, Love, Miller and Smith pick up their options and counting Thompson and Dellavedova's qualifying offers the Cavs total salaries will be $101,743,467

    If James and Miller pick up their options while Love and Smith walk and counting Thompson and Dellavedova's qualifying offers the Cavs total salaries will be $60,788,376

    EDIT: Totally forgot Shumpert has to be resigned as well. If you include them resigning Shumpert that total minus JR and Love is different. They'd be at $68,077,053 in total salary counting Shumpert's qualifying offer.
    Last edited by King_B_Mack; 06-21-2015, 12:29 PM.

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    • Cyrus09
      Pro
      • Nov 2012
      • 599

      #722
      Re: 2015 Offseason Thread

      Thank you, that's a great summary.

      If James and Miller pick up their options while Love and Smith walk and counting Thompson and Dellavedova's qualifying offers the Cavs total salaries will be $60,788,376
      So they would have 7 million + the MLE with 3-5 million? Can you split the MLE for more then one player? Otherwise I don't really see an option how they should improve after this year if they let Love walk with that thin bench. Tough situation IMO.

      EDIT: Ouh, so just the MLE? Question still the same then.

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      • TheShizNo1
        Asst 2 the Comm Manager
        • Mar 2007
        • 26341

        #723
        Re: 2015 Offseason Thread

        Originally posted by King_B_Mack
        It all can get kind of complicated, but the league doesn't have a hard cap per se. What they have is a tax apron which is always 4 million dollars above the luxury tax line. So you have the salary cap, then luxury tax (once your total player salaries exceed the luxury tax line, you have to pay a penalty as a result)then if your salaries cross the luxury apron you lose certain rights as a team such as the length of contracts you can give, the ability to do sign-and-trades and both the mid-level and bi-annual exceptions.

        Bird rights allow you to go over the salary cap to re-sign players. In order to gain bird rights a player must be on the same team for three consecutive years. This can be accomplished with a three year contract, four year, five year or three one year deals. Bird rights are tradeable, so say for example if the Bulls were to trade Joakim Noah this offseason to the Nuggets. Denver would get Noah and his bird rights since he's been with the Bulls eight years now. On the flip side, say Jimmy Butler left the Bulls this offseason as a free agent to sign with the Lakers for example. Signing with a new team as a free agent Jimmy and the Lakers would lose those Bird rights unless they got Chicago to do a sign-and-trade.

        Okay, with all that out of the way, your question. As of right now, taking all salaries on their roster into consideration including Love, LeBron, Mike Miller and JR's options the Cavs would have 9 players under contract next year totaling out to $101,743,467 next year's Luxury Tax line is projected to be 81.6 million

        JR has already said he's opting out, we don't know if Mike Miller will opt out, but assuming he does pick up his option and LeBron picks up his, with Love walking, then the Cavs would total out at $60,788,376. Now the problem with both those total salaries above is they don't account for what Tristan Thompson's new deal would be, Dellavedova's new deal if they re-sign him or what James Jones would get if they re-sign him.

        So recap. Next year's salary cap and luxury tax line is projected to be

        67.1 million dollar cap
        81.6 million dollar luxury tax

        If James, Love, Miller and Smith pick up their options and counting Thompson and Dellavedova's qualifying offers the Cavs total salaries will be $101,743,467

        If James and Miller pick up their options while Love and Smith walk and counting Thompson and Dellavedova's qualifying offers the Cavs total salaries will be $60,788,376

        EDIT: Totally forgot Shumpert has to be resigned as well. If you include them resigning Shumpert that total minus JR and Love is different. They'd be at $68,077,053 in total salary counting Shumpert's qualifying offer.


        That seems overly complicated.

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        • redsox4evur
          Hall Of Fame
          • Jul 2013
          • 18169

          #724
          Re: 2015 Offseason Thread

          Originally posted by TheShizNo1


          That seems overly complicated.

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          Yep definitely the first or second hardest cap to understand. With the NFL being the other.
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          • rdnk
            All Star
            • Feb 2009
            • 5730

            #725
            Re: 2015 Offseason Thread

            Originally posted by Cyrus09
            Thank you, that's a great summary.



            So they would have 7 million + the MLE with 3-5 million? Can you split the MLE for more then one player? Otherwise I don't really see an option how they should improve after this year if they let Love walk with that thin bench. Tough situation IMO.

            EDIT: Ouh, so just the MLE? Question still the same then.
            Yes you can split the MLE. Rockets did it last season. If you're over the apron you get 3 M, if you're over the cap but under the apron you get 5 M. If they're below the apron, they can use the bi-annual exception.

            The Brendan Haywood contract would allow them to make a trade. That's why it is valuable, it is basically a giant 10 M trade exception.
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            • King_B_Mack
              All Star
              • Jan 2009
              • 24450

              #726
              Re: 2015 Offseason Thread

              Originally posted by rdnk
              Yes you can split the MLE. Rockets did it last season. If you're over the apron you get 3 M, if you're over the cap but under the apron you get 5 M. If they're below the apron, they can use the bi-annual exception.

              The Brendan Haywood contract would allow them to make a trade. That's why it is valuable, it is basically a giant 10 M trade exception.
              Only thing I wonder is who is going to trade for that contract? Over 10.5 million for Haywood? Yikes.

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              • Yeah...THAT Guy
                Once in a Lifetime Memory
                • Dec 2006
                • 17294

                #727
                Re: 2015 Offseason Thread

                Originally posted by King_B_Mack
                Only thing I wonder is who is going to trade for that contract? Over 10.5 million for Haywood? Yikes.

                It's non-guaranteed before a certain date so whoever gets him would just cut him for cap space. He doesn't do Cleveland much good to cut him themselves because they're well over the cap anyways


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                • ojandpizza
                  Hall Of Fame
                  • Apr 2011
                  • 29807

                  #728
                  Re: 2015 Offseason Thread

                  I could see a team who were trying to make a step forward trade for Haywood to shed the extra cap.

                  Just a random example, the Pelicans trading off Eric Gordon for Haywood so they can eventually dump Haywood and have the extra to spend on young guys who compliment Davis and the building process to better that team.

                  Might be a terrible example, and not sure what Gordon makes. Just and idea of why a team might trade for his garbage contract.

                  Another might be Minny with Pekovic, Indiana with West, Portland with Batum, Denver with Lawson or Gallo, Miami with Deng, Lakers with Hill, etc. Just teams that might want to move in a different direction than keeping some of those older guys around. Especially if they could get a player they really wanted by including a 3rd team to the trade,


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                  • Yeah...THAT Guy
                    Once in a Lifetime Memory
                    • Dec 2006
                    • 17294

                    #729
                    Re: 2015 Offseason Thread

                    All the reports have been that Cleveland would include their first round pick in a trade as well, so it's actually a pretty attractive package IMO.

                    I'd love to see Milwaukee trade OJ + something for that for example despite the fact that OJ was actually pretty good this year.


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                    • ojandpizza
                      Hall Of Fame
                      • Apr 2011
                      • 29807

                      #730
                      Re: 2015 Offseason Thread

                      Apparently D Wade's dad was wearing a Cavs shirt today lol.. Please don't let him go to Cleveland.


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                      • DJ_Solis
                        MVP
                        • Jan 2014
                        • 2216

                        #731
                        Re: 2015 Offseason Thread

                        How would it even be possible for Wade to get to Cleveland, money wise?


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                        • vtcha
                          MVP
                          • Nov 2009
                          • 2180

                          #732
                          Re: 2015 Offseason Thread

                          I was hearing rumors of mutual interest between D-Wade and the Lakers which made zero sense.

                          The only reason I can think of is that D-Wade is looking to get into television or something? Maybe Gabrielle Union has that effect that Lala had on Carmelo? I dunno...

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                          • redsox4evur
                            Hall Of Fame
                            • Jul 2013
                            • 18169

                            #733
                            Re: 2015 Offseason Thread

                            Originally posted by DJ_Solis
                            How would it even be possible for Wade to get to Cleveland, money wise?


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                            They tell Love to not accept his option. And then they sign Wade. Or Wade takes the MLE.
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                            • ojandpizza
                              Hall Of Fame
                              • Apr 2011
                              • 29807

                              #734
                              2015 Offseason Thread

                              Legitimate question.

                              Would trading Love and a 1st to the Lakers for the 2nd pick make sense for Cleveland?

                              Rumor for the past 3-4 years is that he would end up on LA anyways. Cleveland could take Towns (if he's not first) or Russell, another Ohio "hero" for this team to build with.

                              Kyrie, Russell, LeBron, TT, Andy/Mozgov.

                              Use that Haywood contract to clear space for a stretch 4 or a guy like Danny Green.


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                              Last edited by ojandpizza; 06-21-2015, 06:56 PM.

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                              • Yeah...THAT Guy
                                Once in a Lifetime Memory
                                • Dec 2006
                                • 17294

                                #735
                                Re: 2015 Offseason Thread

                                Originally posted by redsox4evur
                                They tell Love to not accept his option. And then they sign Wade. Or Wade takes the MLE.

                                I don't think they'd have the cap space even if they renounce their rights to Love. And I can't imagine Wade throwing a hissy fit about only being paid like $16 mil next year to sign for the MLE.


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