Eastern Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

[King_B_Mack]

Re: Eastern Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

Yeah, you're right. I am not even sure Butler will stick around with the money that will be thrown at him. I am not even sure who is all under contract with y'all. I will check that out.

Might as well and get those picks. Man, I thought this was definitely the Bulls year. All they had to worry about was Cleveland and CLE lost Love, Bron shot terrible, JR out for 2 games, Kyrie was hurt. I mean, damn. But the series was that close to being 3-1 in Bulls favor. Crazy how it works.

Butler isn't going anywhere. He wants to be here and GarPax are stupid, but not stupid enough to let Butler go.

Brooks needs to go. Hinrich has a player option so he'll probably be back, hopefully they trade him for a couch cushion or something I really don't care. It's time for Taj to go, he's got another two years, but it's time to see what we can get for him. Dunleavy is up, don't even know if I want him back. Didn't want him over Marco or Kyle in the first damn place. Noah has one year left, but he's hurt his trade value after this year, cause I don't know if that knee will ever be the same. Unless Pau retires he'll be back. We need shooters on this team.

Nobody would say that. I would say I was wrong about Atlanta and they were serious if they beat the Cavs and then the Warriors. Very wrong. But I definitely don't see either of those happening. They are not that good of a team. I would love if they proved me wrong though.

You haven't been around OS long enough then if you think that.

Skiles is available. lol

[JazzMan]

Re: Eastern Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

People give Atlanta **** about not looking good in the playoffs... Is Houston not a title contender? Cleveland?

Point is, if you're still in the playoffs, that means that you're contending for the title. Does that not make you a title contender?

[ehh]

Re: Eastern Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

People give Atlanta **** about not looking good in the playoffs... Is Houston not a title contender? Cleveland?

Point is, if you're still in the playoffs, that means that you're contending for the title. Does that not make you a title contender?

By that logic every single team in the NBA is a title contender when the season starts until they're eliminated, whether that's in the regular season or the post season - which is fine if that's how you want to view it. This is why, as I said earlier, you can view what "contender" means in a variety of ways. You're taking it at its most literal/dictionary definition. I'm not.

And no, I do not believe Houston is a legitimate contender based on my personal definition of the term.

[JazzMan]

Re: Eastern Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

Then we might as well just crown Golden State now lol.

[Jrocc23]

Eastern Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

Butler isn't going anywhere. He wants to be here and GarPax are stupid, but not stupid enough to let Butler go.



Brooks needs to go. Hinrich has a player option so he'll probably be back, hopefully they trade him for a couch cushion or something I really don't care. It's time for Taj to go, he's got another two years, but it's time to see what we can get for him. Dunleavy is up, don't even know if I want him back. Didn't want him over Marco or Kyle in the first damn place. Noah has one year left, but he's hurt his trade value after this year, cause I don't know if that knee will ever be the same. Unless Pau retires he'll be back. We need shooters on this team.

Yeah, I hope Butler stays, but man, I am not sure. You think the Bulls offering max money? Because teams are offering him that.

Yeah, I thought Brooks would be very good for Chicago like he was in Houston. Gave my Lakers fits. But I I liked Nate and Augustin better for the Bulls. I've never been a fan of Dunleavy. Liked Marco a lot more in Chicago.

You haven't been around this side of OS long enough then if you think that.

Fixed. Been around the gaming of OS for years.

[Jrocc23]

Eastern Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

People give Atlanta **** about not looking good in the playoffs... Is Houston not a title contender? Cleveland?

Point is, if you're still in the playoffs, that means that you're contending for the title. Does that not make you a title contender?

People look at it different man. If you watch any debate shows or etc. When the season was almost over everyone knew the Hawks would make the playoffs, the question was were they a title contender?

So, no, a lot of people don't take it literal like that when it comes to basketball. Most people take it as can they win the championship. And, I don't think they can. They can get close to it because of the bad conference they are in though.

And I don't get the Warriors statement. I believe all of the teams in the West is serious contenders and believe they all could beat each other. But I agree with Ehh, I don't see Houston or for me, even the Grizzlies winning the ship, but they are both better than Atlanta and would put up a better fight to Cleveland imo.

[JODYE]

Re: Eastern Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

Chicago needs someone they can consistently go to in the half court set.

They do actually.

Chicago needs...a coach that won't play Hinrich.

Look, I'm not looking to pile on any misery here, because I know how it feels, but...

Dude, Hinrich's statline:


Hinrich with 0 points, 0 rebs, 0 assts and a -29 in 20 min

Pretty much this. This right here was a microcosm of Thibodeau's tenure here in Chicago.

His reluctance to play younger players and his blind willingness to call on people who he's built a rapport with, despite talent, is absolutely maddening. I mean if we are being honest, the only reason Butler even got a chance to play his rookie campaign was because of injuries and Thibs was forced to. Then look to the next year and the way he handled him was even poorer. He'd play him 45 minutes one game, and 6 mins the next three.

And this year, look no further than Tony Snell. The way he handled him this year was absolutely deplorable. All you have to do is look at his monthly splits and they tell pretty much the entire story. November and December he barely played. Why? I honestly don't have the answer. Then January rolls around. Dunleavy gets hurt, McDermott hurt or not is as useless as expected and Thibs hand is forced. Finally gets Snell into the rotation.

Has a decent January. Was moreso a couple weeks of self discovery and finding his role on the floor. Given he just went from playing roughly 6 mins a game to about 30. Struggled shooting a bit, but still played solid defense and averaged about 7 ppg. Then February rolls around and he's a bit more comfortable, and you can see his confidence growing. Started to get a little more aggressive and his looking to get to the rim a little more, and that opens up his 3 point game. Has a fantastic month which included some pretty brilliant defense for a 8-9 game stretch. Finished the month averaging 14 and 3 on like 55% shooting. March was a little bit of a struggle, because I think the adjustment to extended minutes was wearing on him a bit but he had a couple great games against Memphis and Toronto, Indiana etc. Then inexplicably, he pretty much abandons Tony for the rest of April and I think had a game against Orlando where he played maybe 15-20 seconds.

Funny thing is, the same can be said about Mirotic, Moore etc.

Also still blows my mind that after 82 games, there wasn't the epiphany at some point that Gasol and Noah do not play well together. Did last season not teach us anything? Did watching him and Boozer struggle together not teach us anything? All you have to do is look at the splits. Some of the most efficient Bulls lineups this seasons were ones that separated Gasol and Noah.

Look, I love Thibs and what he has done for this franchise, but his lack of ability to evolve around his talent has been inexcusable. The identity of the team changed and he didn't change with it.

The unimaginative offensive (literally) sets that felt extremely calculated and deliberate, giving Rose the reigns to take damn near 30 shots a game, playing Kirk Hinrich...ever, completely abandoning Tony Snell and Nikola in a series where we should have had a sizeable bench advantage, are all a perfect summation of Tom Thibodeau's time here in Chicago.

What needs to happen? Well this is all assuming our front office ever develops a level of competency to actually analyze the roster objectively and make changes accordingly.

The elephant in the room needs to be addressed. What do you do with Derrick Rose? From the outside in, his contract is absolutely asinine and for the level of production that you are most likely going to get from here on out, is it really justifiable? Can he stay healthy for a full season? With Jimmy Butler making it clear that he is already a superior offensive player with a much more well rounded game, is a guy like Rose needed? Can he pull it back and be the pass first guy the Bulls need? It wasn't any surprise that the Bulls offense was at it's best when Rose was driving and distributing. Gasol got in rhythm, Dunleavy got in rhythm and it freed up a ton of space for Butler to operate. However, for those times, we would also have to suffer through the stretches where he thought he was Ray Allen and would fire up 9 3s and take 30 shots, which was painful to watch. Real question is, will anyone take him?

I don't know what to do about Noah. Part of me says trade him, the other part of me thinks he can turn it around with the right system, or if he's coming off the bench. He was hurt again and battled the injury bug pretty much all year, and having to play out of position didn't help his cause. I personally think he would be a great second unit guy that you can work in the high post facing the basket to where he can draw defenders out of the paint and distribute. Seems like we forgot for much of the year that that Noah guy is a pretty good passer. The problem with all that is, is I don't think there is any scenario where you can justify paying him 14 million to come off the bench. Think it's time for him to go.

Hinrich. Pretty sure he has a player option for next season. (Anyone still want to refute the fact that keeping Augustin at the same price would have been better?) But please Kirk, do us a favor, and just fade away into the darkness and we'll forget this year ever happened. No really Kirk...go. Go away. NO KIRK, STOP...GET OFF THE FLOOR...WHAT ARE YOU DOIN....GAHGHEIFUoe!!!

Mike Dunleavy. Actually impressed me how he turned it around this year. Played decent enough defense to not make me want to shoot myself and shot the ball much better. If we can bring him back for cheap, great. Would like to see him coming off the bench and let Snell get his chance in the starting rotation. Still bitter than we don't have Marco but I digress.

Moore played well enough (when Thibs actually put him in the game) to warrant picking up his option for next season.

I don't really have an opinion on Gibson. He's been our energy guy for a while now and with the right offense, I think him and Gasol could co-exist, but at the same time I would like to get some value out of him now before it completely diminishes.

I don't know, My gut feeling is to just build around Butler and Mirotic and blow the rest up.

[redsrule]

Re: Eastern Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

Which is why Thibs needs to stay the **** away from New Orleans. Can't have him out there playing Davis 47 minutes a game so he gets hurt 2 months in the year.

[ehh]

Re: Eastern Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

^ Yep, he's already had enough injury issues. For the love of the league as a whole I hope Thibs doesn't land in NO.

[wwharton]

Re: Eastern Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

Yeah, I guess I differ slightly since I view a "contender" as a team who can win the NBA championship. For example, I never thought there was any chance that the 2007 Cavs or 2009 Magic could win a title even though they reached the Finals. Same goes for the 1999 Knicks. Despite how far they advanced in the playoffs I never thought they had a realistic chance to win it all. I understand if others think that's crazy but those teams were clearly lacking what it took to win it all even though they made it to the Finals.

There isn't the parity in the NBA that the NFL has, I don't believe that just because you make it to the Finals it means you can win the title. That last step is always the biggest and most difficult...

If others feel that any team who reaches the Finals is a contender then that's fine by me. I also will have no problem eating crow if Atlanta wins it all this year.

And what did you think about the Mavs team that won? Were you like most people who thought the Spurs were done a few years ago? People can think whatever they want, and when making predictions projections are necessary. But the closer you get to the actual game being played, the more you have to evaluate the possibility. What do the individual matchups look like? What are the injury issues? What adjustments were made that look advantageous against the next team they play? How deep is their bench and, if not very, how many minutes did the main players have to register coming in?

My problem with the "What's a contender" discussion (no matter how you define it) is that it's often based on data from previous seasons which makes no sense... or familiar individual players which only makes slightly more sense than previous seasons.

Both things are factors, no doubt. But there are a million variables that can make the importance of either become minimal. Plus it's this type of thought that starts the discussions of Rondo being the best PG in NBA history, Perkins is a top 5 C in the NBA, Ariza deserves a huge contract, etc. People see teams and players for an extended period for the first time ever because they're watching the playoffs, and then use that to decide how they'll perform the following year.

There are plenty of legit reasons to doubt the Hawks, but it often feels like the reason is they weren't that good last year or the year before so they can't be that good now. Then the added "I'll eat crow if I'm wrong" like that makes up for the red in the face arguing of the point against people that are giving reasons for you to doubt that opinion in the first place.

People selling tickets are taking a loss on this series. The Wiz dont have a big enough fan base to guarantee sell outs and the Hawks dont have one that travels so there are plenty of good seats.

Thats why alot of us are praying that the Wiz make it to the ECF. I will be able to make a good amount because of the Cavs. Selling my Lebron tickets pays for two months of season tickets alone.

You never know. I went to see the previously mentioned 76ers team play the Heat... got 8th row seats for I think $75. Only considered looking for tickets bc a guy at my gym told me he was going and got seats in the building for $25. With the Caps out now, there might be more demand in the DC area but I don't think you're going to get too many more people traveling from Cleveland than we have now traveling from Atlanta.

[The15thunter]

Re: Eastern Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

You never know. I went to see the previously mentioned 76ers team play the Heat... got 8th row seats for I think $75. Only considered looking for tickets bc a guy at my gym told me he was going and got seats in the building for $25. With the Caps out now, there might be more demand in the DC area but I don't think you're going to get too many more people traveling from Cleveland than we have now traveling from Atlanta.

if they survive and you trying to get cavs tickets, let me know. we can meet up and enjoy.

[jeremym480]

Re: Eastern Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

LOL. Whats' funny is I had O's tix tonight but Game 6 messed that up so I gave them to my kid's nanny. Good seats too.

Nice plan. Now she can't complain when you ask her to watch the kid during your "late anniversary weekend getaway".

[aholbert32]

Re: Eastern Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

You never know. I went to see the previously mentioned 76ers team play the Heat... got 8th row seats for I think $75. Only considered looking for tickets bc a guy at my gym told me he was going and got seats in the building for $25. With the Caps out now, there might be more demand in the DC area but I don't think you're going to get too many more people traveling from Cleveland than we have now traveling from Atlanta.

DC is a bandwagon town. For example, my regular season Cavs/Wiz seats cost around $50 bucks. I sold them for $175 each this year. The person in the seat next to me sold his for $210.

The people who are buying the seats arent from Cleveland or even really Cavs fans....they are Lebron fans. I used to make the same kind of money when we played the Heat a few years ago.

[Boltman]

Re: Eastern Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

Which is why Thibs needs to stay the **** away from New Orleans. Can't have him out there playing Davis 47 minutes a game so he gets hurt 2 months in the year.

Thibs would run Davis' *** right into the ground.

[Vni]

Re: Eastern Conference Playoffs - 2nd Round Discussion Thread

They do actually.



Pretty much this. This right here was a microcosm of Thibodeau's tenure here in Chicago.

His reluctance to play younger players and his blind willingness to call on people who he's built a rapport with, despite talent, is absolutely maddening. I mean if we are being honest, the only reason Butler even got a chance to play his rookie campaign was because of injuries and Thibs was forced to. Then look to the next year and the way he handled him was even poorer. He'd play him 45 minutes one game, and 6 mins the next three.

And this year, look no further than Tony Snell. The way he handled him this year was absolutely deplorable. All you have to do is look at his monthly splits and they tell pretty much the entire story. November and December he barely played. Why? I honestly don't have the answer. Then January rolls around. Dunleavy gets hurt, McDermott hurt or not is as useless as expected and Thibs hand is forced. Finally gets Snell into the rotation.

Has a decent January. Was moreso a couple weeks of self discovery and finding his role on the floor. Given he just went from playing roughly 6 mins a game to about 30. Struggled shooting a bit, but still played solid defense and averaged about 7 ppg. Then February rolls around and he's a bit more comfortable, and you can see his confidence growing. Started to get a little more aggressive and his looking to get to the rim a little more, and that opens up his 3 point game. Has a fantastic month which included some pretty brilliant defense for a 8-9 game stretch. Finished the month averaging 14 and 3 on like 55% shooting. March was a little bit of a struggle, because I think the adjustment to extended minutes was wearing on him a bit but he had a couple great games against Memphis and Toronto, Indiana etc. Then inexplicably, he pretty much abandons Tony for the rest of April and I think had a game against Orlando where he played maybe 15-20 seconds.

Funny thing is, the same can be said about Mirotic, Moore etc.

Also still blows my mind that after 82 games, there wasn't the epiphany at some point that Gasol and Noah do not play well together. Did last season not teach us anything? Did watching him and Boozer struggle together not teach us anything? All you have to do is look at the splits. Some of the most efficient Bulls lineups this seasons were ones that separated Gasol and Noah.

Look, I love Thibs and what he has done for this franchise, but his lack of ability to evolve around his talent has been inexcusable. The identity of the team changed and he didn't change with it.

The unimaginative offensive (literally) sets that felt extremely calculated and deliberate, giving Rose the reigns to take damn near 30 shots a game, playing Kirk Hinrich...ever, completely abandoning Tony Snell and Nikola in a series where we should have had a sizeable bench advantage, are all a perfect summation of Tom Thibodeau's time here in Chicago.

What needs to happen? Well this is all assuming our front office ever develops a level of competency to actually analyze the roster objectively and make changes accordingly.

The elephant in the room needs to be addressed. What do you do with Derrick Rose? From the outside in, his contract is absolutely asinine and for the level of production that you are most likely going to get from here on out, is it really justifiable? Can he stay healthy for a full season? With Jimmy Butler making it clear that he is already a superior offensive player with a much more well rounded game, is a guy like Rose needed? Can he pull it back and be the pass first guy the Bulls need? It wasn't any surprise that the Bulls offense was at it's best when Rose was driving and distributing. Gasol got in rhythm, Dunleavy got in rhythm and it freed up a ton of space for Butler to operate. However, for those times, we would also have to suffer through the stretches where he thought he was Ray Allen and would fire up 9 3s and take 30 shots, which was painful to watch. Real question is, will anyone take him?

I don't know what to do about Noah. Part of me says trade him, the other part of me thinks he can turn it around with the right system, or if he's coming off the bench. He was hurt again and battled the injury bug pretty much all year, and having to play out of position didn't help his cause. I personally think he would be a great second unit guy that you can work in the high post facing the basket to where he can draw defenders out of the paint and distribute. Seems like we forgot for much of the year that that Noah guy is a pretty good passer. The problem with all that is, is I don't think there is any scenario where you can justify paying him 14 million to come off the bench. Think it's time for him to go.

Hinrich. Pretty sure he has a player option for next season. (Anyone still want to refute the fact that keeping Augustin at the same price would have been better?) But please Kirk, do us a favor, and just fade away into the darkness and we'll forget this year ever happened. No really Kirk...go. Go away. NO KIRK, STOP...GET OFF THE FLOOR...WHAT ARE YOU DOIN....GAHGHEIFUoe!!!

Mike Dunleavy. Actually impressed me how he turned it around this year. Played decent enough defense to not make me want to shoot myself and shot the ball much better. If we can bring him back for cheap, great. Would like to see him coming off the bench and let Snell get his chance in the starting rotation. Still bitter than we don't have Marco but I digress.

Moore played well enough (when Thibs actually put him in the game) to warrant picking up his option for next season.

I don't really have an opinion on Gibson. He's been our energy guy for a while now and with the right offense, I think him and Gasol could co-exist, but at the same time I would like to get some value out of him now before it completely diminishes.

I don't know, My gut feeling is to just build around Butler and Mirotic and blow the rest up.

Would you say Thibbs has been exposed?