What's your All-Time Starting 5?

[BluFu]

Re: What's your All-Time Starting 5?

Edit: look at it this way. In his 3 seasons with the team T-Mac only started about a 4th of his games. If you could take that same young T-Mac a put him on today's team, which is consistently a top 3 seed in the East and much better than they were back then, he likely would still come off their bench now. So making him a starter on their all time team when he wasn't even a starter when he played for them is a bit of a stretch. He was great with Orlando, but definitely still young and learning with Toronto.

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T-Mac was actually still really good as Raptor. I think you're underrating him a ton, just because the coach wasn't very smart.

Check this out.

Tracy vs Giannis (last season): http://bkref.com/tiny/L3aTd

Very similar numbers, especially per 36.

[Majingir]

Re: What's your All-Time Starting 5?

I meant what they did specifically for that team. So your second list. But even with that, I think Bosh did enough when he was there to earn a starting spot at PF for the Raptors all-time. I didn't even remember Camby on that team, really.

And where's T-Mac and Carter?

McGrady as a Raptor wasn't better than DeRozan.

But like others put, if we're going by careers on their team, Oakley,Davis,McGrady, Stoudemire would be on their bench(with the 5 starters I mentioned of JV,Bosh,VC,DeRozan,Lowry).

I'd actually consider Calderon too. Real underrated player cause Raptors weren't that good,and people only knew Bosh. But Calderon quietly had best FT% season in NBA history, and had insane assist to turnover ratios(over 8apg multiple times in career) and actually one of best PG at the time that nobody really knew. Career wise, he's top 10 among active players in 3pt% and assists,and is 4th among active players in career offensive rating! And in 07-08 was actually a top 10 offensive player in the NBA.

[ojandpizza]

What's your All-Time Starting 5?

T-Mac was actually still really good as Raptor. I think you're underrating him a ton, just because the coach wasn't very smart.



Check this out.



Tracy vs Giannis (last season): http://bkref.com/tiny/L3aTd



Very similar numbers, especially per 36.

Comparing him to Giannis last season? What does that change, he wasn't an All Star or anything either?

Nobody is saying T-Mac wasn't a good player. But we aren't even discussing whether he was good or not.

I can't believe this even needs justifying. But we're arguing against a player who was with the team for 3 years, started far less than half his games, and averaged 11 points a game for his career in Toronto. In comparison to a guy who's been with the team for 8 years and started all 8 of them, averages 19 a game on his career, made 2 All Star teams, has been the team's best scorer on 3 straight playoff runs, has led the team in scoring for 4 straight seasons now, helped them reach the ECF last year, just won a gold medal with team USA, became Toronto's all time leader in games played, points scored, after this season will likely hold the Raptors single season scoring average record over Vince and Bosh, is their all time leader in playoff points, 2nd in playoff points per game only behind Vince..

I'm not one to hate on my guy T-Mac, but this isn't even remotely close to being an argument. Hell even Morris Peterson, Doug Christie, and Jalen Rose had seasons in Toronto that were on par with T-Mac's best season there.


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[BluFu]

Re: What's your All-Time Starting 5?

Comparing him to Giannis last season? What does that change, he wasn't an All Star or anything either?

Nobody is saying T-Mac wasn't a good player. But we aren't even discussing whether he was good or not.

I can't believe this even needs justifying. But we're arguing against a player who was with the team for 3 years, started far less than half his games, and averaged 11 points a game for his career in Toronto. In comparison to a guy who's been with the team for 8 years and started all 8 of them, averages 19 a game on his career, made 2 All Star teams, has been the team's best scorer on 3 straight playoff runs, has led the team in scoring for 4 straight seasons now, helped them reach the ECF last year, just won a gold medal with team USA, became Toronto's all time leader in games played, points scored, after this season will likely hold the Raptors single season scoring average record over Vince and Bosh, is their all time leader in playoff points, 2nd in playoff points per game only behind Vince..

I always felt like Vince and DeMar were natural SGs (which is where they spent the majority of their careers) so that's why I had my lineup the way it was. I'm not saying Tracy was better than these two straight up lol, but he was good enough that placing him as the starting SF shouldn't be a problem.

I'm not one to hate on my guy T-Mac, but this isn't even remotely close to being an argument. Hell even Morris Peterson, Doug Christie, and Jalen Rose had seasons in Toronto that were on par with T-Mac's best season there.


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Mo Pete and Jalen Rose? Oh hell naw . I'll agree to disagree about this. That's outrageous

[ojandpizza]

Re: What's your All-Time Starting 5?

I always felt like Vince and DeMar were natural SGs (which is where they spent the majority of their careers) so that's why I had my lineup the way it was. I'm not saying Tracy was better than these two straight up lol, but he was good enough that placing him as the starting SF shouldn't be a problem.

I suppose not, but it still doesn't change that Vince was actually the teams starting small forward the entire time Tracy was there. So while after that Vince did fill the SG role for most of his career he was more of a small forward for Toronto than what T-Mac was. But that's besides the point I guess.

I just can't fathom a scenario in which DeRozan isn't on the Raptor's all time lineup. Another year or two like this and he's likely largely considered the franchises all time best player. If he avoids injury he will soon hold nearly all of the teams records, while Tracy's best contribution was being the team's 3rd best player on a first round exit.

Mo Pete and Jalen Rose? Oh hell naw . I'll agree to disagree about this. That's outrageous

Tracy could do things they couldn't do by default from his athletic gifts and his taller/longer frame. But Mo Pete and Jalen both had years with the team that they were playing at the level Tracy was.

Peterson's best year with the team he averaged 17 a game shooting 40% from 3 and over 80% from the line. Rose's best year with the team he averaged about 19 a game, shot nearly 40% from 3, and over 85% from the line. Tracy's best year he averaged a little over 15 a game on similar numbers from the field but only 28% from 3 and 70% from the line.

I'm not claiming that those stats tell everything, or that those guys should make a Raptor's all-time roster over T-Mac. But what I'm trying to show is that what McGrady did in Toronto, in retrospect, was nothing more than what plenty of other average players have done in Toronto.

You could definitely tell he was a special kid, he had potential pouring out of him, but he was still so young and hadn't even began to scratch the surface of what he could be when he was still in Toronto.

To me this would be like saying James Harden should make the Sonics/Thunder starting line-up over Ray Allen because he showed potential as a 6th man during his time there and erupted to a star once he left, despite Ray Allen being the teams best offensive player and leading scorer for 4-5 straight years. This feels exactly like that.

[SeaTownGamer]

Re: What's your All-Time Starting 5?

PG Gary Payton
SG Dale Ellis
SF Xavier McDaniel
PF Shawn Kemp
C Jack Sikma


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[Majingir]

Re: What's your All-Time Starting 5?

Just for those talking about McGrady:
McGradys best season with the Raptors was his 3rd year when he averaged 15.4PPG,6.3RPG,3.3APG,1.1SPG,1.9BPG, .451FG%, 106ORTG, 103DRTG.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: What's your All-Time Starting 5?

PG - The Quitter
SG - My man Vince
SF - Dr. J
PF - K-Mart
C - Bropez

6th Man - Drazen Petrovic.

[MrDubya]

Re: What's your All-Time Starting 5?

Point guard: Mark Price
Shooting guard: Kyrie Irving
Small forward: LeBron James
Power forward: Larry Nancy
Center: Nate Thurton
6th Man: Zydrunas Ilgauskas

Price is probably the best player we had before 2003. He was the best player on those early 90s teams, just unfortunate he played in a time filled with great guards.

Kyrie is probably the most controversial here because he's only in his sixth year but he hit the game winner in an NBA Finals Game 7. He's an Ohio hero.

LeBron needs no explanation. The greatest Cavalier of all time. Without him, people wouldn't know who the Cavs are. We were just that team Jordan used to dominate.

Nance was another big player in those 90s teams. A little before my time but things that I've seen of him make me confident putting him in my team.

Nate Thurmond was only in Cleveland for two years in the early days but his impact is so important to this franchise. He was the first big name to play in Cleveland. My dad idolised him so much when he was younger, he named me after him.

Big Z is the modern day Mr Cavalier. 14 years, a whole bunch of records and part of those championship caliber teams of the 00s. It's just a shame he chased the ring like Varejao did.


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Nice to see Big Z get some love here. I was always a fan of Zydrunas.

I'll go with:

PG - Damian Lillard
SG - Clyde Drexler
SF - Scottie Pippen
PF - Zach Randolph
C - Arvydas Sabonis

Sixth man - Terry Porter or Drazen Petrovic (RIP)

[z Revis]

Re: What's your All-Time Starting 5?

Just off the top of my head for Indy it'd be something like

Jalen Rose
Reggie Miller
Paul George
Jermaine O'Neal
Dale Davis

Really not too many HOF type guys in our history. Lots of good players though.


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[ojandpizza]

Re: What's your All-Time Starting 5?

For Cleveland I think I would actually let Kyrie being that scoring punch off the bench and play 6th man. I don't like he or Price at SG, and don't feel like a shoot first player would be an ideal fit on a team that had this many options around them.

Obviously you start Nance and Brad down low, no offense to Big Z or Thurmond (he probably doesn't make my team for them) and that leaves Mr. Cav Austin Carr as the best choice for SG. But if it's me picking, I'm going with Ron Harper. Young Harper could go man, and when personnel fit can make/break you, I think he and LeBron would have that Wade/LeBron type of connection and flourish.


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[ojandpizza]

Re: What's your All-Time Starting 5?

Memphis:

Conley
T Allen
Abdur-Rahim
P Gasol
M Gasol

Obviously start the Gasol brothers together, let ZBo be the first big off the bench and whichever Gasol stays on the floor will be center. Rudy Gay, Shane Battier, Mike Miller for some depth on the wing.


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[Majingir]

Re: What's your All-Time Starting 5?

I combined New Orleans and Charlotte (each one separately would be embarrassing anyway) and Seattle and OKC.

I think OKC/Seattle could be separate though, even if it's basically the same team as last year,except with no Harden in it.

OKC:
Adams
Ibaka
Durant
Harden
Westbrook

Seattle:
Sikma
Haywood
Schrempf
Allen
Payton

Same with Charlotte/New Orleans. Charlottes history is the Bobcats and Hornets. New Orleans is just the New Orleans Hornets/Pelicans. Not exactly great like others, but still not horrible either on some levels(EX-New Orleans might have Tyreke in lineup,but they also have Davis and Paul together which would be a dominant duo)

New Orleans:
Chandler
Davis
Peja
Tyreke
Paul

Charlotte:
Alonzo
Johnson
Rice
Curry
Kemba

[ojandpizza]

Re: What's your All-Time Starting 5?

Only thing with OKC/Seattle is they while OKC doesn't have their logos, jerseys, all that, they do have all the team and player records. So from my understanding they would need to be the same team right?


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[Majingir]

Re: What's your All-Time Starting 5?

Only thing with OKC/Seattle is they while OKC doesn't have their logos, jerseys, all that, they do have all the team and player records. So from my understanding they would need to be the same team right?


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Same franchise technically, but from a fans perspective, many people do view them separately. Just like Expos and Nationals in MLB are seen diff, and Jets and Coyotes in NHL would be diff and so on.

Grizzlies for example, it's not entirely different since there barely a Vancouver Grizzlies history to begin with so there's no kind of extra attachment to the Vancouver part of their history like this is with the Sonics or Expos or Jets.