2017 Offseason Thread

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Why does he have to say anything about LA? He could just say "I'm focused on this season in OKC." Instead he comes out talking about how it's "overstated" and not a sure thing he's going there and oh I love Westbrook [insert more meaningless words]. Meanwhile before the trade he told Indy he wants to go to LA and while we're negotiating trades he has his agent telling teams he's not resigning with any team he's traded to(yet he said he wanted us to get back assets for him).

How is all that not backwards as ****? lol seriously... the guy makes no sense. He needs to just stop being open about things because he contradicts himself every 3 sentences and comes off like someone who actually has no idea wtf he wants.


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What is the context to his agent telling teams he wouldn't re-sign? What if they were just asking if they traded for him if hed be willing to resign and he said no?

I ask because it sounds, the way you put it, like he was sabotaging the Pacers when he might have just been answering a question.

[ProfessaPackMan]

2017 Offseason Thread

I still don't know why some of y'all think it's the player's responsibility to pretty much sit down with management and make sure the team is taken care of after they leave.

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"Hey just to give you a heads up, I don't want to be here past next year and I wish to be traded instead of playing out the year so that I can make sure you get fair/equal talent in exchange for my services on the next team.

And I'd feel terrible if your rebuilding process didn't go as well as you hoped it would be because you couldn't get a good talent in return."

[BleacherBum2310]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

I don't understand the love affair for Smart either. He's a nice piece but considering the Celtics' situation, I could easily see them letting him walk before giving him $12M... unless his shot improves A LOT between last year and next.

His offense needs to improve obviously to improve his ceiling but there are many who believe Smart is the best defender on the team. his versatility is so huge. I can live with the historic awful shooting honestly.

an this is not to you but on the topic the rest were having but all of Boston's best lineups had Jae Crowder in it he's perfect as a small ball 4 and obviously his contract is a steal.

damn the cap going up.. again and I think the team will miss Bradley's leadership more than anything but this IT2 stuff is insane.

[trekfan]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

What is the context to his agent telling teams he wouldn't re-sign? What if they were just asking if they traded for him if hed be willing to resign and he said no?

I ask because it sounds, the way you put it, like he was sabotaging the Pacers when he might have just been answering a question.

PG13's camp was leaking that he was highly likely to go to LA next summer, no matter what, which runs contrary to George's quote here:

The core that reached the Eastern Conference Finals three years ago—George Hill, David West, Roy Hibbert—were all gone, as was the legendary architect. “Here I am, the last guy, and I kind of felt a rebuild coming,” George says. “I felt like the window had closed. I thought they were going in a different direction and I wanted to go in a different direction.” He didn’t ask for a trade. He told the Pacers he intended to sign elsewhere after his deal expired in ‘18. “I wanted them to have the opportunity to get something back if they didn’t want me to play that last year.”

He makes it sound like he was being magnanimous or noble. He thinks it played out like this:

PG: "Hey, I don't want to be here after 2018, so you guys can move me for things and the like."

IND: "Oh, really? Thanks for the heads up, we'll try to find a package that works for all of us."

When really it played out like this:

PG: "Hey, I don't want to be here after 2018, so you guys can move me for things and the like."

IND: "Oh, really? Thanks for the heads up, we'll try to find a package that works for all of us."

PG's CAMP: "George won't re-sign in Indiana and wants to be in LA come the summer of 2018. Chances are very small that he'll re-sign with you if you're not LA." *sends to all media outlets and teams*

If he kept his camp from leaking he was probably going to LA, if his camp had just said something to the effect, "Paul doesn't feel he can accomplish what he wants here in Indiana and is working with the team to find an amicable solution for all parties." That would have been fine.

But his camp leaked stuff and depressed his trade value. That's not noble or magnanimous. The dude made a play, he got out a situation where he didn't want to be, he allowed his team to get something back for him ... but he sure didn't allow for them to get much.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

It looks to me like you can read that two ways: I want you to get back something good for me or I want you to get back something period as opposed to losing me for nothing in free agency . He did the Pacers a favor by saying anything at all.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

His offense needs to improve obviously to improve his ceiling but there are many who believe Smart is the best defender on the team. his versatility is so huge. I can live with the historic awful shooting honestly.

an this is not to you but on the topic the rest were having but all of Boston's best lineups had Jae Crowder in it he's perfect as a small ball 4 and obviously his contract is a steal.

damn the cap going up.. again and I think the team will miss Bradley's leadership more than anything but this IT2 stuff is insane.

Where'd you hear that the cap is going up again?

[BleacherBum2310]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Where'd you hear that the cap is going up again?

woops I mean't it going down which forced them to trade one of these guys when the original cap projections had it as something different.

[23]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Where'd you hear that the cap is going up again?

It may go up once more. It was supposed to up by more this season bit didnt as much as previously projected.

They gave their estimates when the deal was first signed for about 3 years


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[trekfan]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

It looks to me like you can read that two ways: I want you to get back something good for me or I want you to get back something period as opposed to losing me for nothing in free agency . He did the Pacers a favor by saying anything at all.

I grant you, it can be read two ways. He did do the Pacers a favor, that I won't deny or debate; they could have lost him for nothing. Sabonis is a decent (maybe?) consolation prize -- the kid's father was an amazing talent in his prime and if he's 60% of that, the Pacers did decently here.

Oladipo might actually thrive in Nate McMillian's stone-age offense, but it'll be a classic case of a player putting up good numbers on a bad team.

If OKC gets George to re-sign with them and form a duo with Westbrook for the next 3-4 years, than this trade looks worse for Indy. As it stands, at least they salvaged something.

[z Revis]

2017 Offseason Thread

What is the context to his agent telling teams he wouldn't re-sign? What if they were just asking if they traded for him if hed be willing to resign and he said no?

I ask because it sounds, the way you put it, like he was sabotaging the Pacers when he might have just been answering a question.

Not exactly sure, but basically what Trekfan said. I just know what Woj reported and without spending all day looking for the tweet I'll just link what google brought up...

"Teams are trying to decide what’s the appropriate cost for a player who they’re being told, pretty adamantly by Paul George’s camp, will be a rental."

"No matter who you are, no matter who has checked in or who potentially will check in, they’re going to be told that Paul George is gonna play the season out and then he’s gonna go to the Lakers, that that’s his plan.”

That's woj's words from a podcast he was on.

https://audioboom.com/posts/6031132-the-chris-mannix-show-adrian-wojnarowski-joins-the-show

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[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

It may go up once more. It was supposed to up by more this season bit didnt as much as previously projected.

They gave their estimates when the deal was first signed for about 3 years


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Yeah I remember hearing/reading that.

Lot of teams went on a spending spree but since the cap didn't go up as much, they're pretty much trying to dump those contracts a year later.

And even with next year's FA class, not as many teams won't have cap space since half of the league is in the luxury tax and the teams that do have space(as of now at least)are the ones who aren't as attractive right now.

[23]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Yeah I remember hearing/reading that.

Lot of teams went on a spending spree but since the cap didn't go up as much, they're pretty much trying to dump those contracts a year later.

And even with next year's FA class, not as many teams won't have cap space since half of the league is in the luxury tax and the teams that do have space(as of now at least)are the ones who aren't as attractive right now.

Remember they have to spend a certain amount period. Its just that guys we werent used to seeing get massive deals get one.

Mike Conleys last deal was like what 45 mil. ..... soared to 3 times as much this time. Its not that they did it for everyone on the team.

[jeremym480]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

The shot selection concerns me more than the ability to make them.

I have an irrational amount of love for Smart. Would kill me to see him playing anywhere other than Boston.

Same here and I will share two of my favorite Marcus Smart moments since we're on the subject. The are from the last two playoffs. Both will be forgotten by most non-Celtics fans because Boston ended up losing the series in both instances, but these are two main reasons why I love the guy:

1 - 15/16 Playoffs Game 4 against Atlanta. Paul Milsap had 40 points early in the 4th Quarter when Brad Stevens called on Smart to guard Milsap:

Spoiler

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/-gxg-w2nSjA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gxg-w2nSjA

2 - 16/17 Playoffs Game 3 against Cleveland. Bradley may be remembered as the guy who hit the game-winning shot but make no mistake Marcus Smart won that game.

Spoiler

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/zhgSSbBcYGc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhgSSbBcYGc

That game could very well, be the anomaly of all anomalies for Smart, but damn if it isn't one of the best all-around games that I've ever seen from anyone. And going forward I surely don't expect many shooting games like that for him again, but if he could just split the difference between how he normally shoots and how he shot in that game, he would quieten a lot of his critics.

I have great love and appreciation for Smart. As a guard, he's in the mold of Green or Rodman... the glue guy that will do all the dirty work that doesn't get recognized in the box scores. The biggest problem though, is that he is a guard so high offensive issues are more problematic. Beyond his poor shooting (goes beyond just his 3pt %... which was so high in the playoffs mostly bc teams were leaving him WIDE open) he's not a playmaker, and as you mentioned, isn't even efficient driving to the basket. More importantly, guys like Green and Rodman is/was REALLY good at something besides the defense, and Smart doesn't have that atm. Right now he's a better version of Delly.

With youth on his side, he does still have potential to improve in some areas. But other than age, he hasn't shown much to prove he will. That All Defensive call isn't coming until he can give something else on the court to deserve enough minutes to make his defense impactful.

Now that's really breaking down negatives but I do like him, and think he's a valuable asset on any championship contender... including the Celtics. I just don't think that's enough to give him the previously mentioned $12M. I'd let him walk for that. Now if, say, the Cavs had $12M to spend he'd be perfect on that team. But the Celtics have so many young pieces and high draft picks, and possibly a need for a higher end big. I think they'd be better served spending that money elsewhere or offering him much less.

Smart played 30 MPG last season mostly off of the bench and had a lot of votes for All-Defense already. The guys like Chris Paul, Tony Allen and Danny Green are starting to get up there in age a bit, so once they slow down Smart should be right there. Although there is a lot of stiff competition with guys like Bradley, Wall and Butler.

I don't think $12M is that much in today's NBA to be honest. Like Z Revis said mid-level starters and role players are getting $10M/yr. Another example who would probably be a good comp for Smart is Andre Roberson (who just signed a 3 year deal for $30M). Both guys play great defense, but neither is much to write home about on the offensive end. Smart is two years younger and hits FT's at around 80% compared to Roberson's 40-45%. I'd be shocked if Smart gets less than $12M, but if Ainge can sign him for less all the more better.

Regarding a higher-end bigman my question would be who? Assuming Boston gives IT a new contract in the $25-30M range, then they likely won't have any money to spend in free agency other than the MLE. So if they are going to improve down low it will either be through a trade or through the draft. And with their contract situations, they would likely have to package at least 3 players in order to match salaries with a decent bigman. Unless, of course, Danny is finally able to talk someone out of a Porzingis or Jokic, and I don't think that's happening. I think their plan is to hope that the Nets and/or Lakers aren't any good this season, so they can grab a center in the draft next season.

[wwharton]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

Now that I got my PG rant out and I swear I'll be done with that guy one day....

Isn't 12 mil not that bad nowadays? Just for comparison you have max contract guys getting 30 mil(Hayward) and 40 mil(Curry) a year. And I'm only using this example because I know the contracts off the top of my head.. Pacers signed two role players in Bogdanovic and Darren Collison to 10m a year(2 year deals).

12 mil seems reasonable to me for a young guy like Smart.


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It's not THAT much but I still think it's more than the Celtics should offer Smart. I think going forward they already have, will likely draft, or will need to sign someone that I think that money would be better used for. That's why I gave the Cavs example... if they had the money, throw it at Smart. He'd be a great fit.

Smart played 30 MPG last season mostly off of the bench and had a lot of votes for All-Defense already. The guys like Chris Paul, Tony Allen and Danny Green are starting to get up there in age a bit, so once they slow down Smart should be right there. Although there is a lot of stiff competition with guys like Bradley, Wall and Butler.

I don't think $12M is that much in today's NBA to be honest. Like Z Revis said mid-level starters and role players are getting $10M/yr. Another example who would probably be a good comp for Smart is Andre Roberson (who just signed a 3 year deal for $30M). Both guys play great defense, but neither is much to write home about on the offensive end. Smart is two years younger and hits FT's at around 80% compared to Roberson's 40-45%. I'd be shocked if Smart gets less than $12M, but if Ainge can sign him for less all the more better.

Regarding a higher-end bigman my question would be who? Assuming Boston gives IT a new contract in the $25-30M range, then they likely won't have any money to spend in free agency other than the MLE. So if they are going to improve down low it will either be through a trade or through the draft. And with their contract situations, they would likely have to package at least 3 players in order to match salaries with a decent bigman. Unless, of course, Danny is finally able to talk someone out of a Porzingis or Jokic, and I don't think that's happening. I think their plan is to hope that the Nets and/or Lakers aren't any good this season, so they can grab a center in the draft next season.

Generally speaking I take Collison over Smart, but the only comparison that matters is based on the need of a team. I think the Celtics could use that money more than they could use Smart (talking relatively long term).

The big man comment is a combination of relatively long term thought and potentially drafting. In the vein of $12M not being that much, we're not talking the likes of Jokic.

BTW I agree on Crowder, really like that kid. I really like AB too... adding all factors, they made the right choice.

[Boltman]

Re: 2017 Offseason Thread

AB was moved because of future salary implications. There was no way of keeping IT and him after this season. Best to get whatever you can for him now.

In all honesty, AB was a far better future asset than IT2.

But I understand how the Celtic fans feel about IT2 and that would've been nigh impossible.

It's a business at the end of the day and you're trying to win yes? Then look past fan approval and find a way to ship IT2 and keep AB if you're serious about contention.