Is Shaq to Kobe = to MJ to Pippen?

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  • rbruns
    Banned
    • Oct 2002
    • 777

    #1

    Is Shaq to Kobe = to MJ to Pippen?

    Yes, here's the proof. I'm only talking about during the 3 title years. Take the Lakers when Shaq was out and look at there record vs. when Kobe was out. There is no comparison. When Shaq didn't play, LA sucked. When Kobe didn't play, LA won about 70 % of their games.

    2nd, who won MVP during the 3 year run, by a LANDSLIDE, and who didn't. Who won all those Finals MVP awards? I thought so. Who blocked all those shots and grabbed all those rebounds? Who was triple teamed every night, not just when he was hot, but on an every game basis? Look at the tapes during the title runs. Shaq averaged about 35 points per game during the finals, along w/15 rebounds, during the finals. Kobe gets so many props for making clutch shots, but Reggie Miller made clutch shots, does that mean we automatically put him in Shaq's class? People say Kobe bailed out Shaq, and LA, how do you bail out a guy who averages 35 pts, 15 rebounds, in the Finals? How can you bail out someone who your road their coattails? Shaq had 1 MVP during the title run, and 3 Finals MVPS. If kobe was close to equallly responsible, why wasn't Kobe triple teamed game after game, like Shaq? I'll admit, once every 5 games, Kobe would draw a DOUBLE team, when he was hot, but every team admitted, you had to double and triple Shaq every night, simply because he was gonna get 30 points, and shoot 60 % doing, and that was with 3 guys on him. Kobe was gonna hit 45 %, w/one guy on him, or oftentimes he had a wide open shot because Shaq drew the double team and shared the ball.

    I don't have to argue this stuff, cuz I'll just point out Shaq was the one w/the MVP and 3 Finals MVP, Kobe never got any of them during those 3 titles. In fact, last I checked, Kobe only averaged about 20 pts, and wasn't even a top 10 player, that first year they won the title, yet Shaq proved he could still win the ring. But the 2nd and 3rd year, Kobe got better, as he entered his prime, but Kobe still didn't get the Finals MVP, or triple teams. The last 2 years, as Shaq's play suffered due to injury and weight, LA couldn't get it done. Why? Because Shaq was no longer the Shaq of the 3 titles. You take Shaq in his prime, and there's only 2 other men that can compare to him, Wilt and MJ. You take Kobe in his prime, and he's not even the best player in the league today. Shaq is a once in a generation type player, Kobe merely a once in every couple of years type player. There is no comparison.

    Sorry, I had to get this out b/c Kobe fans will slip it in that Kobe was nearly as responsible as Shaq for those titles, yet Kobe's accolades, such as MVP or Finals MVP arent there to support that lie. And Kobe merely fed off Shaq's double teams. And as Shaq aged, and now is gone, Kobe struggles to shoot 40 %, why? Because the Diesel made Kobe's scoring and accuracy what it was. Kobe may never shoot 46 % again. Kobe simply isn't a force of nature, nor a dominant individual physically over his peers like a Wilt, MJ, or Shaq, thus he can't claim equal credit for those rings, there is no comparison. Shaq was more valuable than Kobe in terms of LA's greatness, as MJ was to Pip. Just like Pip fed of MJ's triple teams, Kobe fed off Shaq's dominance to WIN. Kobe's poor shooting since Shaq's departure is a hint of things to come, we all know Shaq generated a lot of open shots for Kobe, merely by his presence. Now we see the truth come to light.

    I think Kobe is still a very good player, but nothing more than a Pippen or Drexler, whereas Shaq is close to MJ or Wilt in his prime years, something Kobe has not shown he can attain. Peace.
  • Court_vision
    Banned
    • Oct 2002
    • 8290

    #2
    Re: Is Shaq to Kobe = to MJ to Pippen?

    COMPLETELY different set up, ie LA was built around a center.

    Chicago was built around a SG.

    MJ was one of the greatest clutch players ever. Shaq has never hit a winning basketball in crunch time. Kobe has hot toones of winners. Pippen was the greatest defensive swingman in history.There's no logic to the comparison

    Honestly, this topics been done to death already. Let's just see how they go after a year or two apart.

    Comment

    • Court_vision
      Banned
      • Oct 2002
      • 8290

      #3
      Re: Is Shaq to Kobe = to MJ to Pippen?

      COMPLETELY different set up, ie LA was built around a center.

      Chicago was built around a SG.

      MJ was one of the greatest clutch players ever. Shaq has never hit a winning basketball in crunch time. Kobe has hot toones of winners. Pippen was the greatest defensive swingman in history.There's no logic to the comparison

      Honestly, this topics been done to death already. Let's just see how they go after a year or two apart.

      Comment

      • CMH
        Making you famous
        • Oct 2002
        • 26203

        #4
        Re: Is Shaq to Kobe = to MJ to Pippen?

        Ugh, I hate the word clutch. Such an overused term. If the player has the talent to hit the shot he'll hit it. No one becomes superman with one minute left in the game.

        That being said. Why would you expect Shaq to take a game-winning shot? He's a center with an inside presence. Usually, when it's time for a "clutch" shot, the guard is going to get the ball because he can dribble around the defender and take it from 20 feet out. The center is only involved on a second/third pass or a tip-in play - definitely not something dramatic.
        "It may well be that we spectators, who are not divinely gifted as athletes, are the only ones able to truly see, articulate and animate the experience of the gift we are denied. And that those who receive and act out the gift of athletic genius must, perforce, be blind and dumb about it -- and not because blindness and dumbness are the price of the gift, but because they are its essence." - David Foster Wallace

        "You'll not find more penny-wise/pound-foolish behavior than in Major League Baseball." - Rob Neyer

        Comment

        • CMH
          Making you famous
          • Oct 2002
          • 26203

          #5
          Re: Is Shaq to Kobe = to MJ to Pippen?

          Ugh, I hate the word clutch. Such an overused term. If the player has the talent to hit the shot he'll hit it. No one becomes superman with one minute left in the game.

          That being said. Why would you expect Shaq to take a game-winning shot? He's a center with an inside presence. Usually, when it's time for a "clutch" shot, the guard is going to get the ball because he can dribble around the defender and take it from 20 feet out. The center is only involved on a second/third pass or a tip-in play - definitely not something dramatic.
          "It may well be that we spectators, who are not divinely gifted as athletes, are the only ones able to truly see, articulate and animate the experience of the gift we are denied. And that those who receive and act out the gift of athletic genius must, perforce, be blind and dumb about it -- and not because blindness and dumbness are the price of the gift, but because they are its essence." - David Foster Wallace

          "You'll not find more penny-wise/pound-foolish behavior than in Major League Baseball." - Rob Neyer

          Comment

          • Chewingthehardfacts
            MVP
            • Sep 2004
            • 807

            #6
            Re: Is Shaq to Kobe = to MJ to Pippen?

            Long post=Conspiracy theory.
            XBOX 360 is my God

            Comment

            • Chewingthehardfacts
              MVP
              • Sep 2004
              • 807

              #7
              Re: Is Shaq to Kobe = to MJ to Pippen?

              Long post=Conspiracy theory.
              XBOX 360 is my God

              Comment

              • Slip
                MVP
                • Oct 2002
                • 1526

                #8
                Re: Is Shaq to Kobe = to MJ to Pippen?

                Where is the comparison to MJ and Pippen in your post?

                Comment

                • Slip
                  MVP
                  • Oct 2002
                  • 1526

                  #9
                  Re: Is Shaq to Kobe = to MJ to Pippen?

                  Where is the comparison to MJ and Pippen in your post?

                  Comment

                  • Court_vision
                    Banned
                    • Oct 2002
                    • 8290

                    #10
                    Re: Is Shaq to Kobe = to MJ to Pippen?

                    Originally posted by YankeePride_YP
                    Ugh, I hate the word clutch. Such an overused term. If the player has the talent to hit the shot he'll hit it. No one becomes superman with one minute left in the game.

                    That being said. Why would you expect Shaq to take a game-winning shot? He's a center with an inside presence. Usually, when it's time for a "clutch" shot, the guard is going to get the ball because he can dribble around the defender and take it from 20 feet out. The center is only involved on a second/third pass or a tip-in play - definitely not something dramatic.
                    Where'd you get that idea from Yank??

                    What, Hakeem...Patty Ewing...The Admiral pre Duncan...were never given the ball with the game on the line?? They got it every time!

                    Shaq simply has never had that responsibilty because he can't hit free throws.

                    Thus...he was damm lucky to have a 'clutch' guard on his team. Otherwise he'd have ZERO rings. Same as Kobe was lucky to have a dominant big man to get him to crunch time.

                    Neither was / is Jordan like. MJ got his team there...and finished the job.

                    And I wasn't even an MJ fan...but man, the guy was on a different planet.

                    Comment

                    • Court_vision
                      Banned
                      • Oct 2002
                      • 8290

                      #11
                      Re: Is Shaq to Kobe = to MJ to Pippen?

                      Originally posted by YankeePride_YP
                      Ugh, I hate the word clutch. Such an overused term. If the player has the talent to hit the shot he'll hit it. No one becomes superman with one minute left in the game.

                      That being said. Why would you expect Shaq to take a game-winning shot? He's a center with an inside presence. Usually, when it's time for a "clutch" shot, the guard is going to get the ball because he can dribble around the defender and take it from 20 feet out. The center is only involved on a second/third pass or a tip-in play - definitely not something dramatic.
                      Where'd you get that idea from Yank??

                      What, Hakeem...Patty Ewing...The Admiral pre Duncan...were never given the ball with the game on the line?? They got it every time!

                      Shaq simply has never had that responsibilty because he can't hit free throws.

                      Thus...he was damm lucky to have a 'clutch' guard on his team. Otherwise he'd have ZERO rings. Same as Kobe was lucky to have a dominant big man to get him to crunch time.

                      Neither was / is Jordan like. MJ got his team there...and finished the job.

                      And I wasn't even an MJ fan...but man, the guy was on a different planet.

                      Comment

                      • Yosemite Dan

                        #12
                        Re: Is Shaq to Kobe = to MJ to Pippen?

                        What's with all the Kobe haters on this board? He's got 3 rings which is 3 more than your favorite player(insert here) get over it. His playing characteristics are similar to at least a dozen other all stars in the league (ie:selfish).

                        No player can do it by himself, not even Jordan, They were spanked in the playoffs until he got a quality coach and Pippen matured. Why do you think they put up with Rodman's antics for so long. Even Jordan himself said they needed him for those last 3 titles.

                        Kobe or Shaq, who cares thay fed off each other and even though they didn't mesh off the court they did on the court. They knew that too that's why they put up with each other for so long.

                        Remember when the Rockets had Drexler, Barkley and Hakeem, everybody expected the rings to come pouring in but they they just didn't have that chemistry that's hard to explain and they lose in the playoffs to the Jazz who would of been 2 time champions if not for the bad luck of facing the Bulls. Malone and Stockton had that chemistry.

                        Comment

                        • Yosemite Dan

                          #13
                          Re: Is Shaq to Kobe = to MJ to Pippen?

                          What's with all the Kobe haters on this board? He's got 3 rings which is 3 more than your favorite player(insert here) get over it. His playing characteristics are similar to at least a dozen other all stars in the league (ie:selfish).

                          No player can do it by himself, not even Jordan, They were spanked in the playoffs until he got a quality coach and Pippen matured. Why do you think they put up with Rodman's antics for so long. Even Jordan himself said they needed him for those last 3 titles.

                          Kobe or Shaq, who cares thay fed off each other and even though they didn't mesh off the court they did on the court. They knew that too that's why they put up with each other for so long.

                          Remember when the Rockets had Drexler, Barkley and Hakeem, everybody expected the rings to come pouring in but they they just didn't have that chemistry that's hard to explain and they lose in the playoffs to the Jazz who would of been 2 time champions if not for the bad luck of facing the Bulls. Malone and Stockton had that chemistry.

                          Comment

                          • fobbybobby23
                            Pro
                            • Sep 2004
                            • 825

                            #14
                            Re: Is Shaq to Kobe = to MJ to Pippen?

                            and don't use kobe's field goal percentage this season and say its low cause shaq isn't there

                            we haven't even gone through a SEASON without shaq yet, wait until 2-3 seasons from now, then analyze

                            its too early to jump to conclusions like that, because you can't tell if its representative of how kobe plays without shaq or if its just a temporary slump kobe's in where he can't hit anything (also remember he has plantar faciatis in one of his feet)

                            and yea i dont think there's been a single player who can be attributed to winning a championship, bball's a team sport, its not one player that wins it

                            remember, a team of just jordan and pippen didn't win the championships solely by themselves, they were just the duo that stuck out out of a team of solid contributers...the bulls wouldn't have won if it weren't for the role players like the steve kerrs, jim paxsons, horace grants, ron harpers all those guys that are often overlooked

                            Comment

                            • fobbybobby23
                              Pro
                              • Sep 2004
                              • 825

                              #15
                              Re: Is Shaq to Kobe = to MJ to Pippen?

                              and don't use kobe's field goal percentage this season and say its low cause shaq isn't there

                              we haven't even gone through a SEASON without shaq yet, wait until 2-3 seasons from now, then analyze

                              its too early to jump to conclusions like that, because you can't tell if its representative of how kobe plays without shaq or if its just a temporary slump kobe's in where he can't hit anything (also remember he has plantar faciatis in one of his feet)

                              and yea i dont think there's been a single player who can be attributed to winning a championship, bball's a team sport, its not one player that wins it

                              remember, a team of just jordan and pippen didn't win the championships solely by themselves, they were just the duo that stuck out out of a team of solid contributers...the bulls wouldn't have won if it weren't for the role players like the steve kerrs, jim paxsons, horace grants, ron harpers all those guys that are often overlooked

                              Comment

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