NBA Draft 2019

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  • ehh
    Hall Of Fame
    • Mar 2003
    • 28959

    #106
    Re: NBA Draft 2019

    Originally posted by d11king
    This may be a bit taboo but am I the only one who thinks the draft lottery is rigged to a certain degree?
    If it was rigged the Knicks would have won it at some point in the last decade.

    Originally posted by ojandpizza
    I think for me, I don't see him as all that versatile, or as a two-way player, and I absolutely don't want him to have much play making responsibility. His defense is mostly gambling for steals and blocks, and he's decent at making the obvious pass but that's about all and is just as likely to turn the ball over as he is make a play for someone else. It's just really difficult to judge his offense when so much of what he does is when he is coming down hill.

    Not saying I don't think he can't be a great player or shouldn't go first, but I'm still not sold on his athletic ability being an instant translation to the league. We've saw too many guys struggle when so much of what made them good at the lower level was just being more athletic than everyone else.. It also hurts him a tad that he came in at that 6'5-6'6 height range instead the 6'8 or whatever people thought he was... On top of the fact that most NBA players are likely substantially heavier than their listed weights anyways, I don't know that he's coming into the league just over-powering everyone.
    I don't know how he isn't versatile. We've seen him do just about everything on the court this year. Rebound, block shots, hit threes, lead fastbreaks, finish in traffic, beat guys off the dribble, make good passes, etc. He's not great at all of it but he is capable. I wonder if we're seeing a bit of Zion-fatigue as we saw with Luka-fatigue last year. Lot of folks (and stupid NBA FOs) thinking he can't possibly be as good as the hype, plus they forget just how young they are.

    He's not going to be a guy who you'll have to sub out because of a lineup/matchups the other team throws out there and I don't think he'll have any glaring weaknesses the opposition can exploit. On defense, he rotates well and anticipates. Being a good help defender is more important than being a good on-ball defender in today's NBA. He can obviously protect the rim and rebound.

    I think he's a better passer than you're giving him credit for. He may not be a playmaker yet but I think he can be a good one based on what I've seen so far in terms of his vision and passing. He's also 19. A guy like Draymond was at MSU picking splinters out of his rear end at this age. I think the most important thing is that he sees the floor well and is a willing passer. He's not a tunnel-vision scorer.



    That play is nothing to sneeze at. Forget how absurd the block is, then leading the transition action and threading the needle with a bounce pass?


    I don't think he'll be a "come in and dominate" guy from Day 1 like Luka because his skillset is nowhere near Doncic's but I like his outlook long-term.

    As for his athleticism, for as many guys as we've seen in the situation you described, we've seen just as many who couldn't fully utilize their athletic gifts because of how putrid the college game is these days and surprise some folk once they get to the NBA. I think Zion will fall into the latter category; he's much better suited for the NBA than the college game. The NBA is going to continue to get smaller and faster until drastic rule changes are made; Zion fits right in as a matchup nightmare. He may never be good enough to be the #1 on a championship team but I think he'll be a hell of a weapon. In an NBA where someone like Julius Randle puts up 20/10/3 I don't see how Zion won't be really f'n good.
    Last edited by ehh; 01-14-2019, 04:09 PM.
    "You make your name in the regular season, and your fame in the postseason." - Clyde Frazier

    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas." - Warren Buffet

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    • ehh
      Hall Of Fame
      • Mar 2003
      • 28959

      #107
      Re: NBA Draft 2019

      Originally posted by TazGlenn23
      Everyone sleeping on Ja Morant
      He's Top 3 in nearly every mock draft. Seems like Zion, Barrett, and Morant are becoming the clear-cut top three picks. If the Knicks are on the board at #2 I'm leaning towards Morant over Barrett at this point.

      Moving away from those three for a minute, I'm not in love with this draft at all. The secondary guys (Little, Langford, Bol, etc) have all been underwhelming. I have no clue what Reddish's ceiling is; he's tough to evaluate given his role at Duke. Going to be a lot of teams crossing their fingers and taking flyers on guys in the mid/late lottery.
      "You make your name in the regular season, and your fame in the postseason." - Clyde Frazier

      "Beware of geeks bearing formulas." - Warren Buffet

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      • d11king
        MVP
        • Feb 2011
        • 2716

        #108
        Re: NBA Draft 2019

        I’ll use this year as an example, as far as the rigging...

        With Zion probably being the most polarizing prospect since Lebron (outside of self-proclaimed Lavar Ball), Zion is must watch TV. And I think the NBA would prefer is Zion landed in Chicago/New York vs. Cleveland. So what I mean by the rigging is that, instead of Cleveland getting the #1 pick, they’ll end up with #2.

        Like I believed the Lakers received the #2 pick 3 years in a row in an attempt to help bolster their roster by giving them ‘elite’ talent. I know that can counter my argument, by saying why hasn’t New York received any #1’s in the past few years.. and that’s something I can’t explain. I feel the same way about Cleveland receiving those #1’s after Lebron left, and not getting anything for him leaving.

        I’m just saying I feel like the league manipulates where they want players to go, or put teams in position to be able to get certain players, but only for like the top 3-4 picks. I’m not saying this is true, but I just have this funny feeling about it.

        This belief will certainly grow if New York/Chicago win the top pick, and Cleveland lands #2.

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        • jake44np
          Post Like a Champion!
          • Jul 2002
          • 9563

          #109
          Re: NBA Draft 2019

          Originally posted by ehh
          He's Top 3 in nearly every mock draft. Seems like Zion, Barrett, and Morant are becoming the clear-cut top three picks. If the Knicks are on the board at #2 I'm leaning towards Morant over Barrett at this point.

          Moving away from those three for a minute, I'm not in love with this draft at all. The secondary guys (Little, Langford, Bol, etc) have all been underwhelming. I have no clue what Reddish's ceiling is; he's tough to evaluate given his role at Duke. Going to be a lot of teams crossing their fingers and taking flyers on guys in the mid/late lottery.
          Agreed, except Langford has been tremendous the last few games.
          He is getting more comfortable with his teammates.
          His last game vs Maryland was pretty amazing.
          ND Season Ticket Holder since '72.

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          • jeebs9
            Fear is the Unknown
            • Oct 2008
            • 47562

            #110
            Re: NBA Draft 2019

            Originally posted by d11king
            I’ll use this year as an example, as far as the rigging...



            With Zion probably being the most polarizing prospect since Lebron (outside of self-proclaimed Lavar Ball), Zion is must watch TV. And I think the NBA would prefer is Zion landed in Chicago/New York vs. Cleveland. So what I mean by the rigging is that, instead of Cleveland getting the #1 pick, they’ll end up with #2.



            Like I believed the Lakers received the #2 pick 3 years in a row in an attempt to help bolster their roster by giving them ‘elite’ talent. I know that can counter my argument, by saying why hasn’t New York received any #1’s in the past few years.. and that’s something I can’t explain. I feel the same way about Cleveland receiving those #1’s after Lebron left, and not getting anything for him leaving.



            I’m just saying I feel like the league manipulates where they want players to go, or put teams in position to be able to get certain players, but only for like the top 3-4 picks. I’m not saying this is true, but I just have this funny feeling about it.



            This belief will certainly grow if New York/Chicago win the top pick, and Cleveland lands #2.
            You got no proof...... Like zero. ..... Just your feelings.

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            • jeebs9
              Fear is the Unknown
              • Oct 2008
              • 47562

              #111
              Re: NBA Draft 2019

              Originally posted by ehh
              If it was rigged the Knicks would have won it at some point in the last decade.



              I don't know how he isn't versatile. We've seen him do just about everything on the court this year. Rebound, block shots, hit threes, lead fastbreaks, finish in traffic, beat guys off the dribble, make good passes, etc. He's not great at all of it but he is capable. I wonder if we're seeing a bit of Zion-fatigue as we saw with Luka-fatigue last year. Lot of folks (and stupid NBA FOs) thinking he can't possibly be as good as the hype, plus they forget just how young they are.

              He's not going to be a guy who you'll have to sub out because of a lineup/matchups the other team throws out there and I don't think he'll have any glaring weaknesses the opposition can exploit. On defense, he rotates well and anticipates. Being a good help defender is more important than being a good on-ball defender in today's NBA. He can obviously protect the rim and rebound.

              I think he's a better passer than you're giving him credit for. He may not be a playmaker yet but I think he can be a good one based on what I've seen so far in terms of his vision and passing. He's also 19. A guy like Draymond was at MSU picking splinters out of his rear end at this age. I think the most important thing is that he sees the floor well and is a willing passer. He's not a tunnel-vision scorer.



              That play is nothing to sneeze at. Forget how absurd the block is, then leading the transition action and threading the needle with a bounce pass?


              I don't think he'll be a "come in and dominate" guy from Day 1 like Luka because his skillset is nowhere near Doncic's but I like his outlook long-term.

              As for his athleticism, for as many guys as we've seen in the situation you described, we've seen just as many who couldn't fully utilize their athletic gifts because of how putrid the college game is these days and surprise some folk once they get to the NBA. I think Zion will fall into the latter category; he's much better suited for the NBA than the college game. The NBA is going to continue to get smaller and faster until drastic rule changes are made; Zion fits right in as a matchup nightmare. He may never be good enough to be the #1 on a championship team but I think he'll be a hell of a weapon. In an NBA where someone like Julius Randle puts up 20/10/3 I don't see how Zion won't be really f'n good.
              Hey wasn't that the clip I post for you and yeah that guy the first night.


              I think Cam can be a really good player. He's most likely going to slip because of the team he plays on. But I think he's top 5 talent. Being the third wheel is hard. No matter who you are. I think once in the league the rules will fit his skill set even more. Same thing for Barrett and Zion.
              Hands Down....Man Down - 2k9 memories
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              • ojandpizza
                Hall Of Fame
                • Apr 2011
                • 29806

                #112
                Re: NBA Draft 2019

                Originally posted by ehh
                I don't know how he isn't versatile. We've seen him do just about everything on the court this year. Rebound, block shots, hit threes, lead fastbreaks, finish in traffic, beat guys off the dribble, make good passes, etc. He's not great at all of it but he is capable. I wonder if we're seeing a bit of Zion-fatigue as we saw with Luka-fatigue last year. Lot of folks (and stupid NBA FOs) thinking he can't possibly be as good as the hype, plus they forget just how young they are.
                I think more so my thought was yes he occasionally hits a jump-shot and occasionally takes guys off the dribble but is that something we shouldn't expect from a 6'6" consensus top 3 draft pick? Majority of what he does is down hill plays where he has a head of steam. We see the other things, but it's not like we seem him do all that stuff with regularity. Same with the pushing the break, you expect a 6'6" guy to be able to push the ball when he gets a rebound. I think because of his size a lot of people look at him like he's a 7 foot tall freak. He's basically a heavier 3 man who's a couple inches shorter than you would like and lacking a good outside game.

                I'm definitely not fatigued on him or any player, I hope they all turn out great because great prospects = better league, I just have my reserves on Zion being some all-time great talent that a lot of the media prop him up to be. And maybe he will be, I've been wrong on plenty of guys in the past and will definitely be wrong on many more lol.

                With Luka I definitely had questions on his game but most of those were in relation to him being a point guard. The situation he is in with Dallas is great, that's more in line with how I envisioned him finding success. Also not surprised on his good start, especially after seeing Tatum and Mitchell get off to their big jumps after the All-Star break last year, wasn't all that surprising to see a guy with 4 years of professional experience get into his groove a bit quicker..

                His hype now however is getting a tad tiresome. People are acting like he's the only rookie who's played who could get you 20 points a game and hit some big shots.. We just watched Tatum and Mitchell play this well against playoff competition at the end of last season and this guy is about to be voted in as an All-Star starter and talks of him being an All-Time Great already. I do think he's going to be a very good player for a very long time though.

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                • jeebs9
                  Fear is the Unknown
                  • Oct 2008
                  • 47562

                  #113
                  Re: NBA Draft 2019

                  Originally posted by ojandpizza
                  I think more so my thought was yes he occasionally hits a jump-shot and occasionally takes guys off the dribble but is that something we shouldn't expect from a 6'6" consensus top 3 draft pick? Majority of what he does is down hill plays where he has a head of steam. We see the other things, but it's not like we seem him do all that stuff with regularity. Same with the pushing the break, you expect a 6'6" guy to be able to push the ball when he gets a rebound. I think because of his size a lot of people look at him like he's a 7 foot tall freak. He's basically a heavier 3 man who's a couple inches shorter than you would like and lacking a good outside game.



                  I'm definitely not fatigued on him or any player, I hope they all turn out great because great prospects = better league, I just have my reserves on Zion being some all-time great talent that a lot of the media prop him up to be. And maybe he will be, I've been wrong on plenty of guys in the past and will definitely be wrong on many more lol.



                  With Luka I definitely had questions on his game but most of those were in relation to him being a point guard. The situation he is in with Dallas is great, that's more in line with how I envisioned him finding success. Also not surprised on his good start, especially after seeing Tatum and Mitchell get off to their big jumps after the All-Star break last year, wasn't all that surprising to see a guy with 4 years of professional experience get into his groove a bit quicker..



                  His hype now however is getting a tad tiresome. People are acting like he's the only rookie who's played who could get you 20 points a game and hit some big shots.. We just watched Tatum and Mitchell play this well against playoff competition at the end of last season and this guy is about to be voted in as an All-Star starter and talks of him being an All-Time Great already. I do think he's going to be a very good player for a very long time though.
                  Yeah man.... Stay away from the TV. I thought the other guy with rigged was crazy...

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                  • jeebs9
                    Fear is the Unknown
                    • Oct 2008
                    • 47562

                    #114
                    Re: NBA Draft 2019

                    Tre Jones hurt? Collar bone injuries suck

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                    • jeebs9
                      Fear is the Unknown
                      • Oct 2008
                      • 47562

                      #115
                      Re: NBA Draft 2019

                      Watching Zion go against 7 for in the paint.

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                      • georgiafan
                        Hall Of Fame
                        • Jul 2002
                        • 11048

                        #116
                        Re: NBA Draft 2019

                        Brutal game for RJ against the 2 / 3 zone he settled for to many 3s and was only 4 for 17 from deep.
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                        • jeebs9
                          Fear is the Unknown
                          • Oct 2008
                          • 47562

                          #117
                          Re: NBA Draft 2019

                          Originally posted by georgiafan
                          Brutal game for RJ against the 2 / 3 zone he settled for to many 3s and was only 4 for 17 from deep.
                          I don't get saying it's a bad game for him. He had to take those shots. He was wide open. Especially vs a zone. You got to put up some shots to keep them honest. They were missing Tre Jones and Cam Reddish tonight. Not to mention Jack White couldn't hit anything. So yes it seems bad on paper.


                          Also up add to that. CUSE plays a zone defense. What so you think it's going to happen after you have all your points in the paint.

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                          Last edited by jeebs9; 01-14-2019, 10:52 PM.
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                          • ehh
                            Hall Of Fame
                            • Mar 2003
                            • 28959

                            #118
                            Re: NBA Draft 2019

                            Yeah, we've discussed Cuse before. It's a rule that you should ignore any game top prospects have against Syracuse lol.
                            "You make your name in the regular season, and your fame in the postseason." - Clyde Frazier

                            "Beware of geeks bearing formulas." - Warren Buffet

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                            • ehh
                              Hall Of Fame
                              • Mar 2003
                              • 28959

                              #119
                              Re: NBA Draft 2019

                              Originally posted by ojandpizza
                              I think more so my thought was yes he occasionally hits a jump-shot and occasionally takes guys off the dribble but is that something we shouldn't expect from a 6'6" consensus top 3 draft pick? Majority of what he does is down hill plays where he has a head of steam. We see the other things, but it's not like we seem him do all that stuff with regularity. Same with the pushing the break, you expect a 6'6" guy to be able to push the ball when he gets a rebound. I think because of his size a lot of people look at him like he's a 7 foot tall freak. He's basically a heavier 3 man who's a couple inches shorter than you would like and lacking a good outside game.
                              True, though I guess it's relative in Zion's case since so many people thought he was nothing more than a dunker/athlete. I think his athleticism will transcend and his skill set is farther along at this age than I think anyone realized. That's all I'm saying. Before the college season began he was 4-5th in a lot of mocks. He's now the unanimous top pick.

                              His hype now however is getting a tad tiresome. People are acting like he's the only rookie who's played who could get you 20 points a game and hit some big shots.. We just watched Tatum and Mitchell play this well against playoff competition at the end of last season and this guy is about to be voted in as an All-Star starter and talks of him being an All-Time Great already. I do think he's going to be a very good player for a very long time though.
                              Not to get sidetracked but what he's doing is more impressive than what Tatum did last year. Luka is the leader of the team and focal point of the offense. Tatum was a key piece of a well-balanced offense and wasn't creating or rebounding like Doncic. Tons of people were on Mitchell's nuts last year. Not quite as bad as Doncic but he got a ton of love and hype. Doncic is also two years younger than Mitchell was for his rookie season.
                              "You make your name in the regular season, and your fame in the postseason." - Clyde Frazier

                              "Beware of geeks bearing formulas." - Warren Buffet

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                              • jeebs9
                                Fear is the Unknown
                                • Oct 2008
                                • 47562

                                #120
                                Re: NBA Draft 2019

                                Originally posted by ehh
                                True, though I guess it's relative in Zion's case since so many people thought he was nothing more than a dunker/athlete. I think his athleticism will transcend and his skill set is farther along at this age than I think anyone realized. That's all I'm saying. Before the college season began he was 4-5th in a lot of mocks. He's now the unanimous top pick.



                                Not to get sidetracked but what he's doing is more impressive than what Tatum did last year. Luka is the leader of the team and focal point of the offense. Tatum was a key piece of a well-balanced offense and wasn't creating or rebounding like Doncic. Tons of people were on Mitchell's nuts last year. Not quite as bad as Doncic but he got a ton of love and hype. Doncic is also two years younger than Mitchell was for his rookie season.


                                Agree

                                Worst part is watching these people say Why Zion didn't get the ball move in OT lol. Cuse was playing zone. You can't keep forcing it into the same spots over and over. It's only going to catch up

                                I don't care what anyone says. Or what weakness you can bring. Zion is the most unqine player in this class. You'd be stupid to pass him up unless something major happens. He's got so much things can improve on. He's just not a dunker. How many top picks have you had to question their hustle? This guy seems to be every where.

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