NBA Draft 2019

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  • jfsolo
    Live Action, please?
    • May 2003
    • 12965

    #91
    Re: NBA Draft 2019

    Originally posted by ProfessaPackMan
    Is Zion getting overhyped?
    I think he is, but he might be the real deal, and I'm biased against all Duke players on principle.
    Jordan Mychal Lemos
    @crypticjordan

    Do this today: Instead of $%*#!@& on a game you're not going to play or movie you're not going to watch, say something good about a piece of media you're excited about.

    Do the same thing tomorrow. And the next. Now do it forever.

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    • jeebs9
      Fear is the Unknown
      • Oct 2008
      • 47564

      #92
      Re: NBA Draft 2019

      Originally posted by ProfessaPackMan
      Is Zion getting overhyped?
      Originally posted by jfsolo
      I think he is, but he might be the real deal, and I'm biased against all Duke players on principle.
      I mean call it what you want. But he makes plays. Like good ones. Forget about the vert. Like literally don't look at the vert. He has a great body of work underneath him.

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      • ojandpizza
        Hall Of Fame
        • Apr 2011
        • 29807

        #93
        Re: NBA Draft 2019

        Originally posted by ProfessaPackMan
        Is Zion getting overhyped?
        I think he absolutely is. I think he'll be a good player, but the whole acting like he's going to be an all time great by default seems to be a large amount of over-hype IMO. A lot of it is because we haven't saw a player like him, which is understandable.

        But I look at it this way, if he wasn't 270 pounds or whatever he weighs nobody would be saying anything about him outside the norm. Would just be another athletic kid like Wiggins. I guess I just don't see that bulk translating to the league to the point where he is just head and shoulders above the competition like he has been so far.

        I'd feel a lot better about him if he were 3 or so inches taller and longer. Also as athletic as he is he also kinda moves a bit funny. Maybe no big deal at all, but awkward movement paired with too much weight and athleticism gives me slight injury concerns.

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        • ojandpizza
          Hall Of Fame
          • Apr 2011
          • 29807

          #94
          Re: NBA Draft 2019

          Originally posted by ojandpizza
          I think he absolutely is. I think he'll be a good player, but the whole acting like he's going to be an all time great by default seems to be a large amount of over-hype IMO. A lot of it is because we haven't saw a player like him, which is understandable.

          But I look at it this way, if he wasn't 270 pounds or whatever he weighs nobody would be saying anything about him outside the norm. Would just be another athletic kid like Wiggins. I guess I just don't see that bulk translating to the league to the point where he is just head and shoulders above the competition like he has been so far.

          I'd feel a lot better about him if he were 3 or so inches taller and longer. Also as athletic as he is he also kinda moves a bit funny. Maybe no big deal at all, but awkward movement paired with too much weight and athleticism gives me slight injury concerns.
          Quoting myself here, but it also doesn't help that he went somewhere like Duke either. Meaning the players around him really keep him from having to face defenses that are geared up to stop him, and consistent double teams and things we often in the past get to see these college kids go up against. With him it even makes it harder, because he's already at such a large advantage 1 on 1 that it's not a direct comparison to what it would be 1 on 1 against NBA level 3/4 men.

          All that said, he's definitely my favorite to take the dunk contest.

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          • Titans4lyfe
            Rookie
            • May 2009
            • 255

            #95
            Re: NBA Draft 2019

            On one hand I believe Zion is being overhyped. Then, I see his stats and advanced metrics (I mean, he has a PER of 43.1, win share per 40 of .398 and a BPM of 21.6!!!!) and I'm like the hype is deserve.

            It's hard not to overhype something we've literally never seen.
            NFL: Tennessee Titans
            NBA: Indiana Pacers
            MLB: St Louis Cardinals
            NCAAB: Duke Blue Devils

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            • georgiafan
              Hall Of Fame
              • Jul 2002
              • 11062

              #96
              Re: NBA Draft 2019

              I don’t think Zion is over hyped, but he does come with more questions at the NBA level then RJ does.

              Nice to see cam step up today with Zion out


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              • TazGlenn23
                Rookie
                • Jul 2018
                • 84

                #97
                Re: NBA Draft 2019

                Everyone sleeping on Ja Morant


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                • ojandpizza
                  Hall Of Fame
                  • Apr 2011
                  • 29807

                  #98
                  Re: NBA Draft 2019

                  Originally posted by Titans4lyfe
                  On one hand I believe Zion is being overhyped. Then, I see his stats and advanced metrics (I mean, he has a PER of 43.1, win share per 40 of .398 and a BPM of 21.6!!!!) and I'm like the hype is deserve.

                  It's hard not to overhype something we've literally never seen.
                  Originally posted by georgiafan
                  I don’t think Zion is over hyped, but he does come with more questions at the NBA level then RJ does.
                  I think these go in hand a bit with my thought process on my last post. It's hard to say he's over-hyped when he's basically one of a kind, but does that translate as well to the next level to deserve the NBA-hype was more so my question. I look at it in one way as he's completely NBA ready body wise, and his size/athletic combination is damn near one in a lifetime. In that regard, there hasn't really been anything like him. But in actuality there has, he's just heavier than those who have been like him. Meaning my question would be without the same "man vs boy" type of advantage he has now, especially in his situation with Duke, does he have this same immediate impact at the next level?

                  His advanced stats are through the roof, but it's kinda expected given how efficient he is. He's almost sort of breaking the metric which really muddies up how you should interpret it. In reality he's only making 7.9 shots a game though, so propping him up as some sort of offensive juggernaut seems a little pre-mature. All of those per 100 possession stats are factoring in that he would hold this same rate of efficiency if he were playing massive minutes on a replacement level team. Meaning if he went to a worse situation team wise and was playing 35 minutes a night instead of his 25 minutes a night, and teams could gear up on him and double him where they can't really at Duke, that he would still shoot 70% and score at a rate of 40pp100. I don't really see that as being a likely scenario, not just for him but for any player in that circumstance.

                  I look at a lot of those similarly to how I look at Clint Capela. Would his offensive rating numbers be through the roof like they are somewhere he had to do something other than run to the rim and get open dunks from others drawing attention? Likely not. And Zion could likely hit the league and do this as well, score incredibly efficiently on 7-8 shots a night and flirt with 20 & 10 territory, and dominate those same advanced stats. But that still wouldn't equate him to being some all-time great level player that you run your offense through and build a franchise around.. That's where I have question marks that fall a bit outside of the stats/highlights in comparison to the "hype".

                  Outside of all that I think there are also question marks on what position he plays, what position he defends, if he can stretch the floor, if he can defend those who stretch the floor.. I think possibly the biggest bright spot for him, outside of his athletic ability obviously, is that his play likely lets those around him thrive because he doesn't need lot's of possessions to maximize his strengths. For teams like Phoenix who has Booker, Ayton this might be good (although they have an entire roster full of guys at his position), or a team like NY with Porzingis coming back, and Knox showing he can be a big scoring piece as well.. For teams like Atlanta or Cleveland who need that "come save us" type of player, I would have big question marks on him being the right fit.

                  I look at Draymond a bit in terms of his value as that "glue guy" and I think Zion can be that. Not comparing them directly, because his upside is much higher, a better athlete with higher scoring potential, yet no indication that he will have Dray's defensive or play-making instincts. But similar in a sense of with others around him to shoulder some scoring and the "running" of the offense he might be a perfect fit and flourish in his strengths.

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                  • ehh
                    Hall Of Fame
                    • Mar 2003
                    • 28959

                    #99
                    Re: NBA Draft 2019

                    He's overrated by some, maybe. I've never felt he's a lock to be a generational player but I still maintain that I'm taking him first overall by a long shot, as with Doncic last year (we had plenty of fun debates about that). I think he'll be a perennial all-star.

                    Assuming a reasonable rate of skill development, there's no answer for someone like him in the NBA. Smallball, versatility, a two-way player, strength and athleticism, has a better BBIQ than anyone realized coming into the season, I think he has a higher ceiling as a playmaker than most do, has a good motor, and doesn't appear to be a diva. Sign me up.
                    "You make your name in the regular season, and your fame in the postseason." - Clyde Frazier

                    "Beware of geeks bearing formulas." - Warren Buffet

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                    • jeebs9
                      Fear is the Unknown
                      • Oct 2008
                      • 47564

                      #100
                      Re: NBA Draft 2019

                      Originally posted by ehh
                      He's overrated by some, maybe. I've never felt he's a lock to be a generational player but I still maintain that I'm taking him first overall by a long shot, as with Doncic last year (we had plenty of fun debates about that). I think he'll be a perennial all-star.

                      Assuming a reasonable rate of skill development, there's no answer for someone like him in the NBA. Smallball, versatility, a two-way player, strength and athleticism, has a better BBIQ than anyone realized coming into the season, I think he has a higher ceiling as a playmaker than most do, has a good motor, and doesn't appear to be a diva. Sign me up.
                      I totally agree here. Sign me up. And I'm starting to hurt this thing about him getting hurt. Let him get hurt first. Then complain. You can't give him the injury bug before he's ever been injured lol.
                      Hands Down....Man Down - 2k9 memories
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                      • d11king
                        MVP
                        • Feb 2011
                        • 2716

                        #101
                        Re: NBA Draft 2019

                        This may be a bit taboo but am I the only one who thinks the draft lottery is rigged to a certain degree?

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                        • ojandpizza
                          Hall Of Fame
                          • Apr 2011
                          • 29807

                          #102
                          Re: NBA Draft 2019

                          Originally posted by ehh

                          Assuming a reasonable rate of skill development, there's no answer for someone like him in the NBA. Smallball, versatility, a two-way player, strength and athleticism, has a better BBIQ than anyone realized coming into the season, I think he has a higher ceiling as a playmaker than most do, has a good motor, and doesn't appear to be a diva. Sign me up.
                          I think for me, I don't see him as all that versatile, or as a two-way player, and I absolutely don't want him to have much play making responsibility. His defense is mostly gambling for steals and blocks, and he's decent at making the obvious pass but that's about all and is just as likely to turn the ball over as he is make a play for someone else. It's just really difficult to judge his offense when so much of what he does is when he is coming down hill.

                          Not saying I don't think he can't be a great player or shouldn't go first, but I'm still not sold on his athletic ability being an instant translation to the league. We've saw too many guys struggle when so much of what made them good at the lower level was just being more athletic than everyone else.. It also hurts him a tad that he came in at that 6'5-6'6 height range instead the 6'8 or whatever people thought he was... On top of the fact that most NBA players are likely substantially heavier than their listed weights anyways, I don't know that he's coming into the league just over-powering everyone.

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                          • ojandpizza
                            Hall Of Fame
                            • Apr 2011
                            • 29807

                            #103
                            Re: NBA Draft 2019

                            Originally posted by TazGlenn23
                            Everyone sleeping on Ja Morant


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                            I've seen him in the top 3 on two or three mock drafts now.. I wouldn't call that being slept on.

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                            • jeebs9
                              Fear is the Unknown
                              • Oct 2008
                              • 47564

                              #104
                              Re: NBA Draft 2019

                              Originally posted by d11king
                              This may be a bit taboo but am I the only one who thinks the draft lottery is rigged to a certain degree?
                              How so? Because Patrick came to the Knicks. Or James went to Cleveland. Unless you have prove. You can't call it that lol

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                              • jeebs9
                                Fear is the Unknown
                                • Oct 2008
                                • 47564

                                #105
                                Re: NBA Draft 2019

                                #CamFam

                                <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/RxBsFN7rkX4" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>


                                RJ with that dunk at 1:04

                                <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ohAYR1tl9I4" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
                                Hands Down....Man Down - 2k9 memories
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