Who's Your MVP? ('Bron or AI)

[3rdAnswer]

Re: Who's Your MVP? ('Bron or AI)

And to get back to the topic, i think Shaq should win MVP hands down. I am sick of the league giving the award to that guy that does it for one year. The man is a champion and truely makes whatever team he is on better. He should win it every year and this one is NO exception. I wish i had a couple of votes in this becuase i would give them all to Shaq Oneal.

I do believe in that. While he's not the same player he was in the past, he still is the "most valuable" player in the league.

[bubbachuck]

Re: Who's Your MVP? ('Bron or AI)

I'm not gonna get into this Iverson thing except for this. He's not an untouchable for the Sixers but I've never heard contenders clamoring to get him which says enough about what other teams think about him. Maybe his team would learn to play like a team rather than wait for Iverson to dribble 20 seconds off the shot clock before taking a contested jump shot or drive into a clogged lane hoping he draws a foul. Either way he's successful taking whatever rhythm his team has right out of the game. The Raptors are sure playing alot better after VC left for basically nothing. Sometimes it's addition by subtraction.

As for Nash, the Suns are a completely different team with him in the lineup. He goes at a frenetic pace, has great shot selection and uncanny ablilty to find the open man even for a point guard. Every great team has great players around them. Would you have said the same about the Suns players last year? Jordan had Pippen and Rodman, does that mean he didn't deserve MVP. Nash makes the good players on his team great and is their true leader as emphasized by the Suns recent bad play. That is the definition of a MVP, not the stat line. Amare needs Nash more than Nash needs Amare. Iverson apparently needs no one.

Notice how everyone you are naming is involved in some kind of duo or more. You need help in this league to win. POINT BLANK PERIOD. Who would you consider Iversons help currently? You think Korver is gonna get it done, the man barely goes past the three point line. KT is just solid, nothing great. And Igoudala is still a maturing rookie but has potential to have a very all around game.

Even Lebron has a good squad. Iverson has the least amount of help out of ALL the superstars (the superstars/top superstars according to Kenny Smith include Shaq, Duncan, Garnett, Kidd, Kobe, and yes Iverson). Becuase we ALL know you cant win by yourself. Some of his teamates look like they just have really good seats to a sixers game and just stand and watch, expecting to see a good show.

[bubbachuck]

Re: Who's Your MVP? ('Bron or AI)

I'm not gonna get into this Iverson thing except for this. He's not an untouchable for the Sixers but I've never heard contenders clamoring to get him which says enough about what other teams think about him. Maybe his team would learn to play like a team rather than wait for Iverson to dribble 20 seconds off the shot clock before taking a contested jump shot or drive into a clogged lane hoping he draws a foul. Either way he's successful taking whatever rhythm his team has right out of the game. The Raptors are sure playing alot better after VC left for basically nothing. Sometimes it's addition by subtraction.

As for Nash, the Suns are a completely different team with him in the lineup. He goes at a frenetic pace, has great shot selection and uncanny ablilty to find the open man even for a point guard. Every great team has great players around them. Would you have said the same about the Suns players last year? Jordan had Pippen and Rodman, does that mean he didn't deserve MVP. Nash makes the good players on his team great and is their true leader as emphasized by the Suns recent bad play. That is the definition of a MVP, not the stat line. Amare needs Nash more than Nash needs Amare. Iverson apparently needs no one.

Notice how everyone you are naming is involved in some kind of duo or more. You need help in this league to win. POINT BLANK PERIOD. Who would you consider Iversons help currently? You think Korver is gonna get it done, the man barely goes past the three point line. KT is just solid, nothing great. And Igoudala is still a maturing rookie but has potential to have a very all around game.

Even Lebron has a good squad. Iverson has the least amount of help out of ALL the superstars (the superstars/top superstars according to Kenny Smith include Shaq, Duncan, Garnett, Kidd, Kobe, and yes Iverson). Becuase we ALL know you cant win by yourself. Some of his teamates look like they just have really good seats to a sixers game and just stand and watch, expecting to see a good show.

[Programmed2Kill]

Re: Who's Your MVP? ('Bron or AI)

When I said trade some young heads I only meant one or two of them. Isn't AI the oldest on the team?

When I said the team wasn't that good, I meant that they are REALLY young and underdeveloped. Now, if you give this team only one more year, they'd be a top team in the East, but they are almost too young. And once they really develop, AI will be damn near gone like he is.



I'm a homer

But trading what young guys? The ones they have are not tradeable. I mean they are, but you are not getting anything back that will help the team.

As far as giving them one more year and they will be a top team...are you crazy? They are not talented enough. That's their problem now.

[Programmed2Kill]

Re: Who's Your MVP? ('Bron or AI)

When I said trade some young heads I only meant one or two of them. Isn't AI the oldest on the team?

When I said the team wasn't that good, I meant that they are REALLY young and underdeveloped. Now, if you give this team only one more year, they'd be a top team in the East, but they are almost too young. And once they really develop, AI will be damn near gone like he is.



I'm a homer

But trading what young guys? The ones they have are not tradeable. I mean they are, but you are not getting anything back that will help the team.

As far as giving them one more year and they will be a top team...are you crazy? They are not talented enough. That's their problem now.

[rbruns]

Re: Who's Your MVP? ('Bron or AI)

I would be fine w/either shaq or lebron getting it, also duncan. I have a problem w/garnett getting it b/c his team is .500, which means nothing. I think winning should factor into the award, regardless of how sorry a team you are dragging around. With Shaq, the Heat almost win 60 games. Without him, they're probably good for about 30 wins. In Lebron's case, the Cavs may reach 50 wins, without him, Cavs probably win 20 games.

You can't replace Oneal's rebounding or scoring on that team, Wade can only do so much. In Lebron's defense, he doesn't have a solid #2 option, he's got some solid role players, but no player that deserves to be an All Star, Z's solid, as is Drew, and JMac, but on other teams these guys probably wouldn't warrant being anything more than the 2nd or 3rd option, just like they are on the Cavs.

Duncan should be considered every year, and he is. But really, he's taken for granted, in a way. His team is always good, he's always got good, but not great numbers.

Ironically, I think Shaq's got a chance at the award, but his numbers are terrible compared to what he normally does. Shaq usually gets about 27-28 points, 12 rebounds, and close to 3 blocks. this year, he's down to 23 points, 10.8 rebounds, and 2.7 blocks. He's getting older, and you can tell b/c he can't do it like he used to. But he's been overlooked so many times, they should just give it to him. It'd be a crime for him to only win 1 MVP. Not when he's posted MVP numbers EVERY year of his career, and his team is always a championship contender.

[rbruns]

Re: Who's Your MVP? ('Bron or AI)

I would be fine w/either shaq or lebron getting it, also duncan. I have a problem w/garnett getting it b/c his team is .500, which means nothing. I think winning should factor into the award, regardless of how sorry a team you are dragging around. With Shaq, the Heat almost win 60 games. Without him, they're probably good for about 30 wins. In Lebron's case, the Cavs may reach 50 wins, without him, Cavs probably win 20 games.

You can't replace Oneal's rebounding or scoring on that team, Wade can only do so much. In Lebron's defense, he doesn't have a solid #2 option, he's got some solid role players, but no player that deserves to be an All Star, Z's solid, as is Drew, and JMac, but on other teams these guys probably wouldn't warrant being anything more than the 2nd or 3rd option, just like they are on the Cavs.

Duncan should be considered every year, and he is. But really, he's taken for granted, in a way. His team is always good, he's always got good, but not great numbers.

Ironically, I think Shaq's got a chance at the award, but his numbers are terrible compared to what he normally does. Shaq usually gets about 27-28 points, 12 rebounds, and close to 3 blocks. this year, he's down to 23 points, 10.8 rebounds, and 2.7 blocks. He's getting older, and you can tell b/c he can't do it like he used to. But he's been overlooked so many times, they should just give it to him. It'd be a crime for him to only win 1 MVP. Not when he's posted MVP numbers EVERY year of his career, and his team is always a championship contender.

[ballaholic23]

Re: Who's Your MVP? ('Bron or AI)

I'm not gonna get into this Iverson thing except for this. He's not an untouchable for the Sixers but I've never heard contenders clamoring to get him which says enough about what other teams think about him. Maybe his team would learn to play like a team rather than wait for Iverson to dribble 20 seconds off the shot clock before taking a contested jump shot or drive into a clogged lane hoping he draws a foul. Either way he's successful taking whatever rhythm his team has right out of the game. The Raptors are sure playing alot better after VC left for basically nothing. Sometimes it's addition by subtraction.

As for Nash, the Suns are a completely different team with him in the lineup. He goes at a frenetic pace, has great shot selection and uncanny ablilty to find the open man even for a point guard. Every great team has great players around them. Would you have said the same about the Suns players last year? Jordan had Pippen and Rodman, does that mean he didn't deserve MVP. Nash makes the good players on his team great and is their true leader as emphasized by the Suns recent bad play. That is the definition of a MVP, not the stat line. Amare needs Nash more than Nash needs Amare. Iverson apparently needs no one.

I'll give u that Nash does make the players around him better, but put him on the sixers and what do u have? NOTHING. Nash is a great PG dont get me wrong but he's no MVP. And your saying Jordan had Pippen and Rodman. Rodman had nothing to do but rebound, how does that make Jordan look any better? And when Jordan retired before making his return with the Bulls, Pippen did nothing without him, Jordan MADE Pippen. I just think your underestimating AI's talent, hes a good player. He's probally 5'10 a buck 65 and is dropping 28 a game, and maybe 5 or 6 dimes? He makes the people around him much better...Kenny Thomas was a bum on the Rockets, here in Philly hes turnt into a nice player. When Iverson drives he draws so much attention, and is either gettin to the line or dishin to the open man, I think this is his best ALL AROUND year of his career.

[ballaholic23]

Re: Who's Your MVP? ('Bron or AI)

I'm not gonna get into this Iverson thing except for this. He's not an untouchable for the Sixers but I've never heard contenders clamoring to get him which says enough about what other teams think about him. Maybe his team would learn to play like a team rather than wait for Iverson to dribble 20 seconds off the shot clock before taking a contested jump shot or drive into a clogged lane hoping he draws a foul. Either way he's successful taking whatever rhythm his team has right out of the game. The Raptors are sure playing alot better after VC left for basically nothing. Sometimes it's addition by subtraction.

As for Nash, the Suns are a completely different team with him in the lineup. He goes at a frenetic pace, has great shot selection and uncanny ablilty to find the open man even for a point guard. Every great team has great players around them. Would you have said the same about the Suns players last year? Jordan had Pippen and Rodman, does that mean he didn't deserve MVP. Nash makes the good players on his team great and is their true leader as emphasized by the Suns recent bad play. That is the definition of a MVP, not the stat line. Amare needs Nash more than Nash needs Amare. Iverson apparently needs no one.

I'll give u that Nash does make the players around him better, but put him on the sixers and what do u have? NOTHING. Nash is a great PG dont get me wrong but he's no MVP. And your saying Jordan had Pippen and Rodman. Rodman had nothing to do but rebound, how does that make Jordan look any better? And when Jordan retired before making his return with the Bulls, Pippen did nothing without him, Jordan MADE Pippen. I just think your underestimating AI's talent, hes a good player. He's probally 5'10 a buck 65 and is dropping 28 a game, and maybe 5 or 6 dimes? He makes the people around him much better...Kenny Thomas was a bum on the Rockets, here in Philly hes turnt into a nice player. When Iverson drives he draws so much attention, and is either gettin to the line or dishin to the open man, I think this is his best ALL AROUND year of his career.

[Programmed2Kill]

Re: Who's Your MVP? ('Bron or AI)

I just think your underestimating AI's talent, hes a good player. He's probally 5'10 a buck 65 and is dropping 28 a game, and maybe 5 or 6 dimes? He makes the people around him much better...Kenny Thomas was a bum on the Rockets, here in Philly hes turnt into a nice player. When Iverson drives he draws so much attention, and is either gettin to the line or dishin to the open man, I think this is his best ALL AROUND year of his career.

WRONG.

Who did Iverson make better? Who in the hell did Allen Iverson make much better? Name one player.

You say Kenny Thomas, right? You said Thomas was a bum in Houston and when he got to Philly, he became a nice player? FALSE. He was a nice player in Houston. Ddid you know he averaged his highest scoring percentage in a season down in Houston? He put up 14 ppg and over 7 rebounds a game. That was the first year he started. Before that, he was a great 6th man. So you are completely wrong about Thomas being a bum with the Rockets.

[Programmed2Kill]

Re: Who's Your MVP? ('Bron or AI)

I just think your underestimating AI's talent, hes a good player. He's probally 5'10 a buck 65 and is dropping 28 a game, and maybe 5 or 6 dimes? He makes the people around him much better...Kenny Thomas was a bum on the Rockets, here in Philly hes turnt into a nice player. When Iverson drives he draws so much attention, and is either gettin to the line or dishin to the open man, I think this is his best ALL AROUND year of his career.

WRONG.

Who did Iverson make better? Who in the hell did Allen Iverson make much better? Name one player.

You say Kenny Thomas, right? You said Thomas was a bum in Houston and when he got to Philly, he became a nice player? FALSE. He was a nice player in Houston. Ddid you know he averaged his highest scoring percentage in a season down in Houston? He put up 14 ppg and over 7 rebounds a game. That was the first year he started. Before that, he was a great 6th man. So you are completely wrong about Thomas being a bum with the Rockets.

[rbruns]

Re: Who's Your MVP? ('Bron or AI)

Pippen did nothing? WTF. The Bulls still won 55 games, 55-27 is a h8ll of a record. Pippen was 3rd in M-V-P voting that year, without MJ, and put up 23-7-7 and 1st team all defense. That is so full of B.S. it makes me wanna laugh.

[rbruns]

Re: Who's Your MVP? ('Bron or AI)

Pippen did nothing? WTF. The Bulls still won 55 games, 55-27 is a h8ll of a record. Pippen was 3rd in M-V-P voting that year, without MJ, and put up 23-7-7 and 1st team all defense. That is so full of B.S. it makes me wanna laugh.

[Streets]

Re: Who's Your MVP? ('Bron or AI)

I just think your underestimating AI's talent, hes a good player. He's probally 5'10 a buck 65 and is dropping 28 a game, and maybe 5 or 6 dimes?

Iverson makes people around him better, like Kobe makes people around him better. They don't. You look at the assist column in the stats, and you see oooh, 7 assists! But it goes like this. Run an Iso for AI/KB, they try to break down the defense, and look for their shot first (here is the low FG%, high T.O's). Then if the D collapses, they'll kick it out, and maybe a role player will knock down their shots. Yes, AI is gonna get his, but its not in the flow of the offense. Lebron, Nash, even Tmac, these guys get theirs in the flow. They don't dominate the offense. They don't hold the ball for 19 seconds. So yeah, the assist column tells one story, but watching actual games tells another.

[Streets]

Re: Who's Your MVP? ('Bron or AI)

I just think your underestimating AI's talent, hes a good player. He's probally 5'10 a buck 65 and is dropping 28 a game, and maybe 5 or 6 dimes?

Iverson makes people around him better, like Kobe makes people around him better. They don't. You look at the assist column in the stats, and you see oooh, 7 assists! But it goes like this. Run an Iso for AI/KB, they try to break down the defense, and look for their shot first (here is the low FG%, high T.O's). Then if the D collapses, they'll kick it out, and maybe a role player will knock down their shots. Yes, AI is gonna get his, but its not in the flow of the offense. Lebron, Nash, even Tmac, these guys get theirs in the flow. They don't dominate the offense. They don't hold the ball for 19 seconds. So yeah, the assist column tells one story, but watching actual games tells another.