2/9 - 2/22 Games Discussion Thread

[The 24th Letter]

Re: 2/9 - 2/22 Games Discussion Thread

agree with Draymond.

been my wave since 2011 tbh [emoji2377]

That said, Neither the organizations or the players should be exempt from criticism for how they approach these situations. Just my opinion though.

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[ProfessaPackMan]

2/9 - 2/22 Games Discussion Thread

100% he’s right... the problem is the media wants to make that story/situation bigger than what it is and something it’s not. Sadly that goes outside of sports too, but they have to get those views and clicks. They’ll sell/promote anything that makes them money.


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They profit off of manufactured drama.

If these guys are just playing ball, EVERYONE gets along and there’s no drama, half of these Bloggers/Writers don’t have any jobs.

His comments on the mental health aspect of it was [emoji1476]

[VDusen04]

Re: 2/9 - 2/22 Games Discussion Thread

Draymond X speaking the truth. [emoji1490][emoji1490][emoji1490]

https://twitter.com/nbcswarriors/sta...333088256?s=21

I'm not sure I follow the issue here. Andre Drummond, who's built in the mold of a DeAndre Jordan yet is somehow hitting just 47 percent of his shots from the floor (on over 15 (!) attempts per game), is being outplayed by Jarrett Allen in a contract year for a team that often suffers when he's on the floor.

Why would his employer, a basketball organization, not have the liberty to play him as they pleased? If they were demanding he return the $328,000/game salary for each game he was held out, then I'd be more inclined to see an issue.

As it stands, Cavaliers fans have been becoming increasingly fed up with this dude for weeks and, speaking from experience in Detroit, there's a good chance the organization saw the writing on the wall too. In that case, the only folks losing sleep over Andre not playing are Andre and people outside the state of Ohio. As such, so long as his contract is honored, who's to say whether he plays or not? They're the ones paying $27 million to a guy to sit on the bench; sort of seems like their own problem.

[dubcity]

Re: 2/9 - 2/22 Games Discussion Thread

Draymond's comments weren't perfect, and some of the examples (Kyrie) he used weren't 100%, but the overall message was right. He just used Drummond as a jumping off point.

[jeebs9]

Re: 2/9 - 2/22 Games Discussion Thread

I'm not sure I follow the issue here. Andre Drummond, who's built in the mold of a DeAndre Jordan yet is somehow hitting just 47 percent of his shots from the floor (on over 15 (!) attempts per game), is being outplayed by Jarrett Allen in a contract year for a team that often suffers when he's on the floor.

Why would his employer, a basketball organization, not have the liberty to play him as they pleased? If they were demanding he return the $328,000/game salary for each game he was held out, then I'd be more inclined to see an issue.

As it stands, Cavaliers fans have been becoming increasingly fed up with this dude for weeks and, speaking from experience in Detroit, there's a good chance the organization saw the writing on the wall too. In that case, the only folks losing sleep over Andre not playing are Andre and people outside the state of Ohio. As such, so long as his contract is honored, who's to say whether he plays or not? They're the ones paying $27 million to a guy to sit on the bench; sort of seems like their own problem.

I actually can't believe you brought up numbers here. I don't think that's the point.

Draymond's comments weren't perfect, and some of the examples (Kyrie) he used weren't 100%, but the overall message was right. He just used Drummond as a jumping off point.

Sound like it was on his mind the entire game. And they won lol.


I remember recently JJ Reddick started having DNP for a few games. And it's kind of crazy he wouldn't play in a game. The rumor mill was in full effect. Then all of sudden he was playing.

[ojandpizza]

Re: 2/9 - 2/22 Games Discussion Thread

Drummond is actually one of like 4 players that actually makes the Cavs pretty significantly better when he’s on the floor vs sitting, was also a big reason they looked like a playoff team very early on. Allen is clearly the better defensive presence and younger with more potential, it only makes sense to plan to resign him and move Drummond.

Drummond doesn’t have a great FG%, but part of me wonders how much that is brought down a bit by these “put back” attempts that don’t go down but were a bonus shot anyways because he’s such a load going to the offensive glass.

Regardless of stats I don’t think Draymond really takes issue with them sitting him. It’s that they choose to sit him saying they are going to trade him and that’s supposed to be fine but if is player asks to be traded the media treats him like a cancer.


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[VDusen04]

Re: 2/9 - 2/22 Games Discussion Thread

I actually can't believe you brought up numbers here. I don't think that's the point. Sound like it was on his mind the entire game. And they won lol.

I stated at the outset that I'm not quite sure I follow his point.

Guy signs contract with basketball organization where playing time is variable but contract is honored in full. Contract may be transferred as organization sees fit, unless otherwise negotiated. At conclusion of contract, player chooses where to sign new contract.

Players still demand trades. However, it generally seems to be those who go the extra mile (Vince Carter's rumored sabotage, James Harden's pandemic shenanigans and teammate criticism) that seem mostly likely to draw heat.

Organizations, meanwhile, draw their own heat and consequences through sustained player mismanagement, which is why the Pistons have burned through countless coaches and front offices over the last decade while struggling to draw anyone to see their games pre-COVID.

I understand that's all a gross simplification but for the sake of not typing a novel, that's the gist of what I'm getting, though I know there's certainly got to be plenty that I'm missing here.

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: 2/9 - 2/22 Games Discussion Thread

Draymond's comments weren't perfect, and some of the examples (Kyrie) he used weren't 100%, but the overall message was right. He just used Drummond as a jumping off point.

Him using Harden as an example was head scratching too because Harden didn’t simply demand a trade. He showed up late, completely out of shape, violated COVID protocols and almost got in a fight with a teammate.

I agreed with everything else though. And I hope to see Draymond get a TV gig after he retires.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: 2/9 - 2/22 Games Discussion Thread

Who did he almost get in a fight with?

[VDusen04]

Re: 2/9 - 2/22 Games Discussion Thread

Drummond is actually one of like 4 players that actually makes the Cavs pretty significantly better when he’s on the floor vs sitting, was also a big reason they looked like a playoff team very early on. Allen is clearly the better defensive presence and younger with more potential, it only makes sense to plan to resign him and move Drummond.

This is not consistent with what I've seen and heard regarding Drummond since the first couple weeks of the season. In Detroit, he'd have these pockets (again, often at the start of the season) when he'd come out engaged and focused. Then, inevitably, he'd come back down to Earth and start playing like the old Andre we all knew.

Edit: You specified that he looked helpful early on and I missed that the first time reading. Yes, when he's engaged and sticks to his role, he is indeed helpful. Unfortunately, two of the worst parts about his game is how he's frequently disengaged and doesn't stick to his role.

Drummond doesn’t have a great FG%, but part of me wonders how much that is brought down a bit by these “put back” attempts that don’t go down but were a bonus shot anyways because he’s such a load going to the offensive glass.

Again, speaking from eight years of Andre experience - yes, missing multiple bunnies in a row doesn't help his field goal percentage (though it does inflate his rebounding numbers). However, the bigger issue is his complete absence of any offensive touch whatsoever, from literally anywhere on the court. Compounding matters, he plays as though he does have offensive abilities, frequently posting up without a post game, trying to iso cross defenders from the perimeter, firing contested floaters into defender's chests.

This video making the rounds yesterday pretty much hits the nail on the head. https://streamable.com/gaj2eb

Regardless of stats I don’t think Draymond really takes issue with them sitting him. It’s that they choose to sit him saying they are going to trade him and that’s supposed to be fine but if is player asks to be traded the media treats him like a cancer.

I think there's lot of room for nuance here. There's been a lot of trade demands between 2004 and 2021 yet the ones that generally float to top are those that involved players making the extra effort to make things weird (Vince's entire debacle, Harden and his teammate comments and whatever else was happening with him involving COVID protocols and random absences).

Moreover, if a team was being particularly egregious about sitting an asset, there'd generally be outcry from an organization's support system. In the case of Drummond (and Blake Griffin, while we're at it), it's mostly been met by shrugs and sighs of relief. Teams (like the Pistons) face outcry and consequences for their poor player management with regularity.

[bigeastbumrush]

Re: 2/9 - 2/22 Games Discussion Thread

Who did he almost get in a fight with?

I believe it was a rookie. Don’t know his name.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: 2/9 - 2/22 Games Discussion Thread

Drummond cosigned Draymond after the presser, so I wouldn't be surprised if he talked to Draymond himself after the game.

The issue in this case, seemed to be moreso about their timing....them making this decision at gametime. If I read correctly, he was dressed for the game and ready to play, and was told he wasn't playing so he's on the bench in his street clothes as a healthy scratch.

Things like that, finding out you've been traded on Twitter etc. before you hear from your team (if you do at all) I completely understand where the players are coming from, and I think those experiences are avoidable...and if we're talking about conducting business professionally, I don't think that's too much to ask.

Dray kind of went all over the place, but I got his overall point.

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[VDusen04]

Re: 2/9 - 2/22 Games Discussion Thread

Drummond cosigned Draymond after the presser, so I wouldn't be surprised if he talked to Draymond himself after the game.

The issue in this case, seemed to be moreso about their timing....them making this decision at gametime. If I read correctly, he was dressed for the game and ready to play, and was told he wasn't playing so he's on the bench in his street clothes as a healthy scratch.

Things like that, finding out you've been traded on Twitter etc. before you hear from your team (if you do at all) I completely understand where the players are coming from, and I think those experiences are avoidable...and if we're talking about conducting business professionally, I don't think that's too much to ask.

Dray kind of went all over the place, but I got his overall point.

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I am 100 percent in agreement with you regarding players finding out they've been traded via Twitter. Or in older days, via radio broadcast or television (as was the case of Mo Cheeks being sent to San Antonio).

However, regarding Drummond, news regarding his benching broke at like 2PM ET yesterday and was trending for hours, before the Blake news even broke. It was pretty much still breakfast time where Dre was when that news came down.

Separately, I'm relatively certain Drummond will have co-signed anything someone said in his favor, regardless of accuracy.

[ProfessaPackMan]

2/9 - 2/22 Games Discussion Thread

1. Someone tell me what was wrong with the Kyrie example?

2. VDusen, what exactly about Draymond’s comments has you lost? I’m asking because it sounds like you’re more focused on the “Well, the player signed a contract and he should do good by it, regardless of how the organization treats him” side of it. At least that’s the impression I got from your post.

In general I feel like some of y’all are oversimplifying this when it’s not necessary.

If a player demands a trade, they’re going to get crushed by the media and fans regardless of how it ends. But if a team comes out and says “Yeah, we’re not playing this player because we’re gonna trade him”, then there’s no issue or loud noise from the media or fans.

[VDusen04]

Re: 2/9 - 2/22 Games Discussion Thread

VDusen, what exactly about Draymond’s comments has you lost? I’m asking because it sounds like you’re more focused on the “Well, the player signed a contract and he should do good by it, regardless of how the organization treats him” side of it. At least that’s the impression I got from your post.

In general I feel like some of y’all are oversimplifying this when it’s not necessary.

If a player demands a trade, they’re going to get crushed by the media and fans regardless of how it ends. But if a team comes out and says “Yeah, we’re not playing this player because we’re gonna trade him”, then there’s no issue or loud noise from the media or fans.

Initially, I was trying to figure out what the beef was. Your closing paragraph helps on that front.

I was lost because, while I don't believe it's an obligation for a player to always do right by an organization, I do feel it's within the organization's means to take a player who's under their umbrella and play or not play (or trade or not trade) them as they see fit. I imagine that's a part of what's covered when that contract's initially signed.

Of course, if an organization completely bungles a transaction, there's consequences. For lots of Michiganders, three championships isn't what comes to mind when the name Joe Dumars is muttered. Instead, many remain bitter regarding his Chauncey/AI swap in '08. Moreover, a mention of Steve Ballmer & Blake Griffin springs to mind how that organization rolled out the red carpet to reel Blake back into LA for the long term only to deal him months later. That didn't slip past folks.

As mentioned prior, I'm relatively certain there's been dozens of trade requests since 2004. However, folks typically recall only those that seem to involve boycotting practice, purposely mailing it in, bodyslamming a coach, ignoring COVID protocols, and probably some strip clubs in there somewhere (mostly just Vince and James in that mash-up there).

On the flip side, there's also times where trades are requested and the result is, "Meh, yeah, makes sense." Matthew Stafford requested a deal a few weeks back and things worked out without Stafford having to slash anyone's tires on the way out.

In short, nuance.