NBA Off Topic Thread

[Majingir]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Lol regarding load management. Lillard is out tonight due to rest. But what? Did he not just have the All star Break? I'm guessing it's an unspecified reason. But that made me laugh.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

A week off with the all star break, and even after tonight they don't play again until Sunday.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Jarrett Allen with a classic quote about Love leaving Cleveland (and the last time he saw Love).

"I was told he was going for milk and cigarettes and he never came back"

Its little small dumb stuff like this that make me a fan of players.

Spare me the story about how he was 15 and caring for 5 younger siblings or that no one gets to the gym earlier and leaves later.

[VDusen04]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

It may not be a passion for the game that changed. If you were an NBA player in the 80s and 90s, unless you were one of the very top megastars, there wasn't much else for you outside of the NBA. Now you have social media influencers and streamers.

There could be multiple reasons, and less passion may just be one of them. But the effect of them all is that players don't have as much personal stake in what happens on the court.

I sort of feel like money is what's driving all of this in one way or another.

To put it in perspective, Dennis Rodman made $160,000 when the Pistons reached their first finals in 1988. After taxes, he was still making a pretty nice living but not exactly set for life. In contrast, Marvin Bagley III is making over $11 million this year.

Many players of the 80's and 90's were doing pretty darn well for themselves but most contracts were still not "retire today and you're still set for life" type of money. So I think that leads to some semblance of a tangible incentive to continue pushing, driving, and striving.

In contrast, when you're someone like Marvin Bagley, who's made over $35 million in his first four years, I think priorities can more easily shift. Some players are so unbelievably rich these days that I'm not sure there's any sort of risk or concern to sitting out so frequently. They're rich enough to be individual moguls who just happen to play basketball sometimes.

So, I don't have a solution to load management other than to say that I'm super bitter about players arbitrarily missing games that fans have already paid for. I'd support some kind of money-back or future ticket guarantee when all-stars skip out, sort of how teams handled rainouts or other delays in baseball.

[Majingir]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

The Jazz are now better in the standings than the TWolves.

You'd think teams would learn from history but I guess not?

How often has a team given up everything for one or two star players and they didn't wind up winning that deal?

KG/Pierce led to Celtics getting Tatum AND Brown.

OKC got SGA, Jalen Williams, Tre Mann and still have a few 1sts to go from the PG deal

Most of the 1sts OKC got for Westbrook 4 years ago don't even begin until next year!

Among other examples over the last decade.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

I sort of feel like money is what's driving all of this in one way or another.

In contrast, when you're someone like Marvin Bagley, who's made over $35 million in his first four years, I think priorities can more easily shift. Some players are so unbelievably rich these days that I'm not sure there's any sort of risk or concern to sitting out so frequently. They're rich enough to be individual moguls who just happen to play basketball sometimes.

Still believe this goes beyond the players but I’m not sure if Fans care to have that discussion because they(we)only care about seeing them play, not the process behind why teams hold them out.

The messaging around it has been pretty bad though as it leaves the players to take 100% of the heat when the League and PA could do a better job explaining the process. It won’t make fans feel less annoyed but it’s better than having the worst messengers get on TV(Kendrick Perkins or any other old head)get on TV and **** on their own.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Still believe this goes beyond the players but I’m not sure if Fans care to have that discussion because they(we)only care about seeing them play, not the process behind why teams hold them out.

The messaging around it has been pretty bad though as it leaves the players to take 100% of the heat when the League and PA could do a better job explaining the process. It won’t make fans feel less annoyed but it’s better than having the worst messengers get on TV(Kendrick Perkins or any other old head)get on TV and **** on their own.

This thread probably explains it a lot better than I can:

https://twitter.com/jonesonthenba/status/1629363087349526528?s=46&t=bmmyw4g-qEId3d4KHhv-qw

Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[King_B_Mack]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

This thread probably explains it a lot better than I can:

https://twitter.com/jonesonthenba/status/1629363087349526528?s=46&t=bmmyw4g-qEId3d4KHhv-qw

Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

Yeah that's a miss. I agree the players shouldn't be just getting **** on by themselves for the situation and taking all the heat here because there is always gonna be organizations making decisions like these as well the way Pop was doing it years ago.

That said, homeboy in the thread you posted not gonna sit up here and wash the players hands of this completely and cap that they have absolutely no say and they're just the innocent victims being forced to do what they don't want to do. This is a shared blame situation and that's fine. Both parties can take their lumps for things, but one side not gonna just point the finger at the other and think that's cool.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

True.

I was just curious in how the process works and posted it here for some context.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

True.

I was just curious in how the process works and posted it here for some context.

The way I understand it is the medical staff and/or coaches may decide to give a player a rest to protect them. And that can create a precedent for other players to request a day off.

That thread is right in as far as its the culture of the NBA, but he downplays the fact that the players are just as much a part of that culture as the franchises.

Steph may campaign to play every game, but that doesn't hold true for every player. Ben Simmons may request rest days when his knees are sore, but that doesn't hold true for every player.

Sucks for the guys who are held out without their campaigning for it, when coach flat out mandates he isn't playing but then that player has to hear twitter fans calling him soft as if it was his decision

Edit: Almost forgot, there is that 3rd category of player. The guy that knows his team is aggressively managing fatigue and says something like he tired knowing damn well they are going to rest him but then puts up some fake "but I wanna play" resistance.

Source: Cause I be doing that at work.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

The way I understand it is the medical staff and/or coaches may decide to give a player a rest to protect them. And that can create a precedent for other players to request a day off.

That thread is right in as far as its the culture of the NBA, but he downplays the fact that the players are just as much a part of that culture as the franchises.

Steph may campaign to play every game, but that doesn't hold true for every player. Ben Simmons may request rest days when his knees are sore, but that doesn't hold true for every player.

Sucks for the guys who are held out without their campaigning for it, when coach flat out mandates he isn't playing but then that player has to hear twitter fans calling him soft as if it was his decision

Edit: Almost forgot, there is that 3rd category of player. The guy that knows his team is aggressively managing fatigue and says something like he tired knowing damn well they are going to rest him but then puts up some fake "but I wanna play" resistance.

Source: Cause I be doing that at work.

I get that, I’m saying they need better messaging instead of just remaining silent.

Now it won’t stop them from complaining/labeling them, but I’m just saying having someone from the league or PA speak up for them, being transparent and explaining that process is better than just remaining silent while the main piece of your product is getting crapped on left and right.

Because right now, it’s “These players today are soft, they’re not hungry, theythey’re entitled and lazy, etc” and depending on who’s leading that convo, it can start to lean into *coded* territory.

Obviously we know that’s not all players but when it’s happening more than we would like, people are just going to group all players under the same umbrella.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

I get that, I’m saying they need better messaging instead of just remaining silent.

Now it won’t stop them from complaining/labeling them, but I’m just saying having someone from the league or PA speak up for them, being transparent and explaining that process is better than just remaining silent while the main piece of your product is getting crapped on left and right.

Because right now, it’s “These players today are soft, they’re not hungry, theythey’re entitled and lazy, etc” and depending on who’s leading that convo, it can start to lean into *coded* territory.

Obviously we know that’s not all players but when it’s happening more than we would like, people are just going to group all players under the same umbrella.

Yeah but thats hard to do when its split. Like how do you defend one group of players while not sh*tting on the other group?

It was the players that started this talk, the league office and franchises probably don't want to get involved in it too much beyond the typical PR "we always want to put the best product out" safe talking points.

If you got one player criticizing another player for resting you can't really expect the league or team to step in and say "no, you should criticize us instead."

And for the PA, wanting them to come out and say "Chill on Dame, the team forced him to sit out" but when asked about another player they'd have to say no comment or something along those lines. If I'm that other player I'm not going to feel like the PA has my back. So to avoid this the PA is sticking to the talking points of scheduling, knowing thats going to lead to a lot of talk about it not being a problem for players in the past.

The PA is willing to accept players being crapped on a bit if it can lead to getting concessions on the scheduling front.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

To put it more succinctly, the player's association is avoiding the talk of the process of deciding when to rest a player and who makes that call and is instead using the opportunity to stick to their talking point of getting more player-friendly scheduling.

[JazzMan]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Ja Morant's gonna end up shooting someone at this rate, sheesh

[ggsimmonds]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Ja Morant's gonna end up shooting someone at this rate, sheesh

I'm familiar with the Ja Morant type, I've seen them a bunch. They grew up relatively privileged or not part of the street struggle, but they have a fascination with the street lifestyle. They grow up and have enough money to "buy" themselves a safer version of the lifestyle and because they are fake and we all know it, they try too hard.

[ProfessaPackMan]

NBA Off Topic Thread

Yeah but thats hard to do when its split. Like how do you defend one group of players while not sh*tting on the other group?



It was the players that started this talk, the league office and franchises probably don't want to get involved in it too much beyond the typical PR "we always want to put the best product out" safe talking points.



If you got one player criticizing another player for resting you can't really expect the league or team to step in and say "no, you should criticize us instead."



And for the PA, wanting them to come out and say "Chill on Dame, the team forced him to sit out" but when asked about another player they'd have to say no comment or something along those lines. If I'm that other player I'm not going to feel like the PA has my back. So to avoid this the PA is sticking to the talking points of scheduling, knowing thats going to lead to a lot of talk about it not being a problem for players in the past.



The PA is willing to accept players being crapped on a bit if it can lead to getting concessions on the scheduling front.

Either way, it’s not helping the overall product.