NBA Off Topic Thread

[zello144]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Cable/streaming/blackouts etc has harmed ratings. Nobody wants to spend a lot of money to watch their team signing up for 4-5 different streaming services or you run into the that channel is not in your package problem and you'll have to pay more. A lot more teams should adapt the Phoenix Suns model where you can watch your local teams games over the air for free.

Also what the hell was the NBA smoking when they told all the youtubers that they couldn't use NBA footage for commentary/highlight videos this year (or last year forgot when they stopped allowing it). That was a stupid move. A lot of people watch youtube than they do traditonal TV. Gen Z especially is more likely to watch their favorite youtuber instead of ESPN or NBATV for highlights.

Load management and players not taking the regular season seriously anymore also doesn't help. Also all the jacking up three pointers and nobody playing defense.

Make divisions matter again. You need those natural rivalries to bring some excitement.

Stop changing the damn jerseys every year. You need a consistent look. Maybe it's a Nike thing. But it's annoying watching your team wearing their 50th different jersey that looks ugly as ****.

there’s a constant focus/discourse on which star player needs to leave their current team ALL year long regardless of how many years is left on their current deal, NBA Media is the worst out of all 4 major pro sports because they’re more pressed about being all buddy buddy with players and afraid of being *too* critical on certain ones.

I really hate the NBA media when they try to force Star players out of small markets so they can go to LA,NY, just because "they're sexier cities." or "it's too cold there. Leave now"

[J_Posse]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

The NBA is and always will be a 'star driven' league. Until an American - born player ascends to the mountain top, then the league's ratings will lag domestically.

Hopefully either Anthony Edwards, Cooper Flagg or Cam Boozer can compete with Luka, Giannis, Nikola, (when healthy) Joel, and Victor eventually. Until then the media and (some) fans will lose their minds that the NBA is 'dying.'

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[Speedy]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

I think it's hands down the gameplay.

I legit don't think teams today could play with the 90s and 2000s. There is ZERO DEFENSE.

I bet a Tony Bennett coached NBA team would excel. Gosh, I'm surprised teams don't deploy a 3-2 zone full time to offset the 3s and lack of defensive awareness. Force teams to shoot contested 3s or make a mid-range shot.

[jeebs9]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

I think it's hands down the gameplay.

I legit don't think teams today could play with the 90s and 2000s. There is ZERO DEFENSE.

I bet a Tony Bennett coached NBA team would excel. Gosh, I'm surprised teams don't deploy a 3-2 zone full time to offset the 3s and lack of defensive awareness. Force teams to shoot contested 3s or make a mid-range shot.

Ahhhh I think the 3 point line is too far for legit long term zone defense. I feel must teams are very ready for zone defense. The Heat who played the most. Have steadily decline usage of it every year since the bubble. Most teams deploy it as a last resort to mix up a team. Not to mention shooter are way better now.

[Master Live 013]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Got to say, I have seen this argument in other forums, is the "American-born" star really a thing? Like, there are people not watching now that would watch if there was an bona fide American-born superstar among other non-American superstars (the era of 0 or only a handful of non-American stars in the NBA is a thing of the past)?

Isn't the NBA supposed to be this international thing and whoever is good is good. I find that take weird. I'm sure it wouldn't hurt, it might even help at the margins, but is a significant dip in ratings really do to that? If anything I find that aspect one of the coolest things about the NBA.

[crashnebula]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Got to say, I have seen this argument in other forums, is the "American-born" star really a thing? Like, there are people not watching now that would watch if there was an bona fide American-born superstar among other non-American superstars (the era of 0 or only a handful of non-American stars in the NBA is a thing of the past)?

Isn't the NBA supposed to be this international thing and whoever is good is good. I find that take weird. I'm sure it wouldn't hurt, it might even help at the margins, but is a significant dip in ratings really do to that? If anything I find that aspect one of the coolest things about the NBA.

Can't say for sure. Anecdotally, I know more of my friends and coworkers who are fringe or casual fans, definitely talk plenty about Luka and Wemby. I feel they, along with Joker, drive more discourse than any other player besides LeBron of course. Ant is huge within NBA circles, but I don't think he has the same reach to the casual fan. I would imagine if someone like Zion could have lived up to his hype, he could be in that same conversation, with the kind of buzz he's had since high school/college and his play style being more familiar to American fans and our love of high-flying freak athletes. Maybe if Ant or Tatum can ascend to true MVP status, we will see if that makes any difference, but it seems like this new generation of American stars are just perpetually overshadowed by the international guys, as well as the old guard of LeBron, KD, Harden and Kyrie who still drive more discussions and engagement from what I can tell.

[J_Posse]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Got to say, I have seen this argument in other forums, is the "American-born" star really a thing? Like, there are people not watching now that would watch if there was an bona fide American-born superstar among other non-American superstars (the era of 0 or only a handful of non-American stars in the NBA is a thing of the past)?

Isn't the NBA supposed to be this international thing and whoever is good is good. I find that take weird. I'm sure it wouldn't hurt, it might even help at the margins, but is a significant dip in ratings really do to that? If anything I find that aspect one of the coolest things about the NBA.

Yes, it is.

The league is growing globally as more international stars take over, but Americans 'can't connect' with players that 'don't speak their language.'

It's not weird at all when we are experiencing uncharted territory, where all the 'best' players are foreign-born athletes.

It makes more sense to me than a 'line on the ground' causing people not to want to watch (I personally hate the volume three-point shooting, but still watch.) Baseball & hockey are facing the same obstacle/issue with trying to connect foreign athletes with an (disenchanted & cynical) American audience.

The NBA needs an American-born athlete to grab the torch from LeBron (+ Steph & KD), so they can market them to the (not watching) casual & youth markets.

Imagine if Tim Duncan was dominating (individually) to the degree of Jokic, but the NBA didn't have a Shaq, Kobe, Allen Iverson, McGrady, Vince Carter, etc to attract the casual audience.

Hakeem and Tim Duncan both dominated in eras where Micheal Jordan and Kobe Bryant/Shaq O'Neal grabbed all the headlines and attention (plus MJ & Kobe/Shaq played in the #3 & #2 biggest media markets which also mattered).

Other than Ant Edwards, what young American player is 'must watch TV' for those audiences? And it can be argued that even he hasn't truly ascended to that level yet.

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[Master Live 013]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

But that's what I find weird: "what young American player is 'must watch TV' for those audiences?". Wut. Why does that even matter? I guess subconsciously it matters. As I see it, maybe the style of play argument might track. Maybe the NBA needs a high flying, Canadian MJ/Kobe to get the league going

Who thinks in those terms Like, there isn't anyone in basketball like Ohtani so can't really compare, but the heck do I care if he is Japanese and uses a translator.

Guess myself not being born in the States (proper) I can't relate on this.

I feel Duncan isn't the best example, he speaks English natively, played 4 years at Wake, played for Team USA. And bless his soul, he is probably a top 10 player for me, but his fundamental play style wasn't anywhere near as exciting as Jokic's (even if Jokic is also a fundamentally great player). So Duncan was "boring" (not to me) while other stars supplemented him, but do the supplementals need to be Americans?

Maybe all these years of watching games in mute finally catch up to me :P

[J_Posse]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

But that's what I find weird: "what young American player is 'must watch TV' for those audiences?". Wut. Why does that even matter? I guess subconsciously it matters. As I see it, maybe the style of play argument might track. Maybe the NBA needs a high flying, Canadian MJ/Kobe to get the league going [emoji38]

Who thinks in those terms [emoji38] Like, there isn't anyone in basketball like Ohtani so can't really compare, but the heck do I care if he is Japanese and uses a translator.

Guess myself not being born in the States (proper) I can't relate on this.

I feel Duncan isn't the best example, he speaks English natively, played 4 years at Wake, played for Team USA. And bless his soul, he is probably a top 10 player for me, but his fundamental play style wasn't anywhere near as exciting as Jokic's (even if Jokic is also a fundamentally great player). So Duncan was "boring" (not to me) while other stars supplemented him, but do the supplementals need to be Americans?

Maybe all these years of watching games in mute finally catch up to me :P

It matters because that's what has driven the NBA and interest since Bird + Magic.

People complained just 10+ years ago on forums & online that they 'hated seeing guys taking long 2-pointers,' etc and that it'd be more beneficial to take more 3's.

The way the game is played is complained about during any era (or the eras I've lived through).


Trying my best not to offend, but you being a foreigner (or foreign born) makes what I'm talking about not directed towards you. The American audience is fickle and has 1,000 things to draw their attention, so having athletes that 'look and talk like them' is important.

And you (and myself) might enjoy Jokic's style of play (not sure I would call it "exciting") the casual viewing audience sees him differently. They see a pudgy, unathletic guy that is 'more into horses' & only plays basketball because.

Anyway, I'm not dismissing that the current style of play is harmful (it might be), yet that has always been brought into question (or complained about).

The league not having a 'successor' to the big American stars and having 'too much' parity happened once before in the 1970's. Which was also considered the biggest down period in league history and was only saved by Magic & Bird in the 80's.

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[dubcity]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

I do dislike the "NBA ratings are down because Popovitch/Kerr/etc are political" piling-on nonsense. Turning a press conference into your own podcast isn't my ideal situation, but I don't think it matters.

I think my darkhorse hot take on this is that the exponential increase in player movement the past 5-10 years has led to zero sense of team identity and team rivalry, and therefore regular season matchups have even less meaning and drama. The turnover and movement has ramped up crazy, to the point that it's hard to find a story in most games, beyond aging star player on his 4th team vs other star player on his 3rd team, and that's a pretty weak story.

It also plays into what others have talked about; specifically the obsession with the "when is he leaving, where is he going" rumor mill that pops up constantly everywhere. And players don't seem to hate the attention they get from all that.

[crashnebula]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

Certainly, the lowering of the stakes that has happened in the last 10 years or so has probably made interest decrease. That includes star players moving around so frequently, "super teams" forming and breaking up on a whim, load management getting excessive, the way there are always star players out come Playoff time, the prevalence of podcasts and social media use by top stars, and more... the general vibe of the league just isn't as competitive at it once was, save for a handful of stars like Giannis, Ant and Jimmy Butler. Hell, the prevailing joke about the best player in the league is that he doesn't even want to be there.

The biggest draw for sports fans historically are great rivalries - Magic vs. Bird, Conor vs. Khabib, Rock vs. Austin (OK it's not a sport but you get the idea), these kinds of high stakes rivalries are what drives business for sports leagues. Probably a big reason why the last Finals that did historic ratings was Warriors vs. Cavs. It's kind of a shame because I do enjoy parity and seeing different teams contending for titles, but it's hard to argue that familiar feuds and faces are what keep casual fans engaged.

[Master Live 013]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

So many factors converging, but out of everything, the worst thing is how Silver seems to have been caught flat footed. His big move has been the NBA Cup...

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

And you (and myself) might enjoy Jokic's style of play (not sure I would call it "exciting") the casual viewing audience sees him differently. They see a pudgy, unathletic guy that is 'more into horses' & only plays basketball because.

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Agreed with everything you said but this part also stands out as well. Even your description of him is a big part why a lot of the gym slob types like him. He looks like them except he’s actually good at Basketball lol.

Jokic is a dawg but he(along with majority of the stars currently)looks like someone who just shows up for a job, clocks in and then clocks out and people don’t want to “feel” like they’re just watching guys at work.

It’s like how in Wrestling, we knew Rock-Austin didn’t really HATE each other off TV. But when they were in the ring, shooting a promo, you couldn’t have told us they didn’t hate each other because they gave that impression.

[l3ulvl]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

I'll throw another idea out there, most fans (myself included) don't really understand the nuance of basketball enough to articulate conversationally in a group setting the way you can when you watch football


There's always something to talk about during/after every single play in football. Was that a hold, was that a catch, why didn't the coach call TO? Every single play in football has SOMETHING



NBA can be confusing and looks like every team is just running the same sets over and over because we don't get it, so the talking point becomes flopping or crying (oh man LeBron cried last night while actually getting the call, it was wild lol).


I don't really think it has anything to do with American or foreign faces, it's just difficult to find cogent talking points during a basketball game. Football fans "know" all the rules and everyone has commentary "he didn't complete the process", or "that should've been DPI"


even my layman *** knows SOME things in basketball just from playing 2K, but anyone who has watched football has been constantly schooled about the rules and reviews and challenges and the constant stoppages allow for more and more conversation, basketball struggles with that unless there's a close game late

[ArkGrady]

Re: NBA Off Topic Thread

I been thinking about this since I'm trying to get better at irl basketball.


What nba player you want to be like when playing irl basketball? For me I want to be like Prime Tracy McGrady aka Tmac