What are you thoughts on David Stern?

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  • gez20
    Rookie
    • Aug 2003
    • 453

    #31
    Re: What are you thoughts on David Stern?

    I don't believe the league is fixed and certainly hope it isn't. You could definetly make a case for star favoritism, but fixed games...I dunno that's kind of out there...

    Hypothetically, IF the league was fixed...why the hell would any of us spend any time on it? It would be pointless, and really...Stern is a smart man...he has way too much to lose by being caught in a scandal of this proportion.

    A fixed league would be like finding out wrestling is fake all over again.....

    Comment

    • Taur3asi3
      MVP
      • Mar 2003
      • 3727

      #32
      Re: What are you thoughts on David Stern?

      Star favoritism is like fixing the league. They both can determine the outcome of the game. Also i forgot to mention that a lot of people think Stern rigged the 85 draft lottory so the Knicks could get Patrick Ewing.

      edit: I should also state for the record im not a David Stern fan and have think that during his tenure with the NBA (as Comissioner and as their legal council) he has screwed up terribly and has overreacted to many small, tiny, and insiginificant things (IE: Connie Hawkins) and lets other more important and serious matters go with out caring.
      Last edited by Taur3asi3; 05-04-2005, 03:35 AM.
      As Shaquille O'Neal left the Suns practice court, he yelled out, "Alvin's the coach. We must be the Clippers. And I must be Olowokandi. Nooooo!"

      Comment

      • Court_vision
        Banned
        • Oct 2002
        • 8290

        #33
        Re: What are you thoughts on David Stern?

        Originally posted by jfsolo
        If you make accusations of a multi-tiered conspiracy that attacks the integrity of the league, then you better have irrefutable prove of that conspiracy or be prepared to face the consequences. Someone's going to pay dearly for Van Gundy's comments.
        I really like JVG...but your absolutely right.

        Coaches saying "the officials were a joke" is one thing...

        Allegations that you've been TOLD by one that conspiracy exists etc is HUGELY damaging.

        If true, it destroys their integrity.

        If false...and JVG went too far to try and get Yao some calls, then he needs to be dealt with.

        Either way, you can't just make allegations without backing them up.

        Comment

        • neovsmatrix
          MVP
          • Jul 2002
          • 2878

          #34
          Re: What are you thoughts on David Stern?

          Originally posted by monkey
          I really like JVG...but your absolutely right.

          Coaches saying "the officials were a joke" is one thing...

          Allegations that you've been TOLD by one that conspiracy exists etc is HUGELY damaging.

          If true, it destroys their integrity.

          If false...and JVG went too far to try and get Yao some calls, then he needs to be dealt with.

          Either way, you can't just make allegations without backing them up.

          I just don't see the big deal. It's not like something illicit is really going on here. When coaches complain to the league that the refs are ignoring calling fouls on some player when he does something that should be considered a foul, the refs SHOULD respond and pay more attention to that player and his "tricks". Naturally this would lead to more foul calls on that player.

          And that's what Van Gundy pretty much affirms. He may have implied some "conspiracy" by the way he addressed the topic, but there really IS no conspiracy.

          I think Van Gundy and Stern are both wrong on this one, and are making this into a much bigger problem than it should be.

          Comment

          • 23
            yellow
            • Sep 2002
            • 66469

            #35
            Re: What are you thoughts on David Stern?

            Im wondering why noone mentions Mark Cuban sending in 28 complaints into the league office about Yao, which thereafter this ref calls JVG about them watching Yao much more closely.

            I dont like the NBA's overall attitude on the refs at all.. Yao or no Yao. At the same time, you dont kick out one of the best hardest working men you have in the league over a ref complaint.

            JVG offered to sit down with anyone who would, Stern, Stu, the media and review the tapes to show what he had been speaking about, and noone has yet to take up his offer.

            Comment

            • Freelance
              Banned
              • Jul 2002
              • 7021

              #36
              Re: What are you thoughts on David Stern?

              KDRE, teams send tapes into the league all the time in every sport.

              Comment

              • jujuhound
                MVP
                • Oct 2002
                • 1040

                #37
                Re: What are you thoughts on David Stern?

                Originally posted by KDRE
                Im wondering why noone mentions Mark Cuban sending in 28 complaints into the league office about Yao, which thereafter this ref calls JVG about them watching Yao much more closely.

                I dont like the NBA's overall attitude on the refs at all.. Yao or no Yao. At the same time, you dont kick out one of the best hardest working men you have in the league over a ref complaint.

                JVG offered to sit down with anyone who would, Stern, Stu, the media and review the tapes to show what he had been speaking about, and noone has yet to take up his offer.
                All teams send in complaints to the league about perceived poor officiating. That's the proper way to handle it. Van Gundy is essentially complaining that refs are now actually calling Yao and Dikembe's moving screens about half the time (if they called it every time they set an illegal pick, they would both foul out after 12 trips down the court by the Rockets). I noticed the blatant moving screens by these guys way before the whole Van Gundy outburst. They weren't being called and he was happy and winning. They finally enforce the rules and he starts complaining about some grand conspiracy to crack down on illegal screens by Yao. Here's a good excerpt from an article on ESPN.com about the situation:

                "All teams complain to the league about the way games are officiated, not just Cuban's Mavs. This happens even more than usual in the playoffs, and the league is fine with it. Stern would much rather receive complaints than read about them in the papers.

                • Cuban's chief complaint to the league is that Yao is guilty of moving screens. Screen-setting, moving or otherwise, is not what has saddled Yao with crippling foul trouble in three of the five games so far. So Van Gundy's accusations don't line up with what really bothers him – his belief that Yao is "not refereed appropriately." He attributes that in this series to Cuban "calling and calling" the league, but that has actually been a season-long complaint from the Rockets. Van Gundy even said as much before Game 5 when he conceded that his stance does not stem from a couple of playoff games. "This is how I feel," he said."

                http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playof...arc&id=2051994

                I think JVG would be better served to get on his 7'5" center for trying to draw charges in the restricted area instead of trying to block or alter shots. That's where the majority of his fouls have come from.

                Comment

                • 23
                  yellow
                  • Sep 2002
                  • 66469

                  #38
                  Re: What are you thoughts on David Stern?

                  Originally posted by jujuhound
                  All teams send in complaints to the league about perceived poor officiating. That's the proper way to handle it. Van Gundy is essentially complaining that refs are now actually calling Yao and Dikembe's moving screens about half the time (if they called it every time they set an illegal pick, they would both foul out after 12 trips down the court by the Rockets). I noticed the blatant moving screens by these guys way before the whole Van Gundy outburst. They weren't being called and he was happy and winning. They finally enforce the rules and he starts complaining about some grand conspiracy to crack down on illegal screens by Yao. Here's a good excerpt from an article on ESPN.com about the situation:

                  "All teams complain to the league about the way games are officiated, not just Cuban's Mavs. This happens even more than usual in the playoffs, and the league is fine with it. Stern would much rather receive complaints than read about them in the papers.

                  • Cuban's chief complaint to the league is that Yao is guilty of moving screens. Screen-setting, moving or otherwise, is not what has saddled Yao with crippling foul trouble in three of the five games so far. So Van Gundy's accusations don't line up with what really bothers him – his belief that Yao is "not refereed appropriately." He attributes that in this series to Cuban "calling and calling" the league, but that has actually been a season-long complaint from the Rockets. Van Gundy even said as much before Game 5 when he conceded that his stance does not stem from a couple of playoff games. "This is how I feel," he said."

                  http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playof...arc&id=2051994

                  I think JVG would be better served to get on his 7'5" center for trying to draw charges in the restricted area instead of trying to block or alter shots. That's where the majority of his fouls have come from.



                  umm... I know tapes are sent in all of the time.
                  What Im saying is, immediately after this is when the ref called JVG.. before game 3, so no it had nothing to do with losing.

                  With that, I still dont like the NBA's policy on referees. If you can say you do, I think you are either being dishonest, or just dont want to admit it because of this particular case.

                  My main gripe is not about this series. Its about everytime something happens, the league always sides with the refs right or wrong.

                  Why not address these issues? The playoffs is just like the NBA's own steroid scandal. There is always some problem arising during the playoffs.

                  We all know refs are imperfect, so why not use technology a bit more to our advantage? We have the capability.

                  Its one thing to blow a call, and another to blow a series of calls in multiple games from different teams.

                  And I also agree Yao should not be the one trying to take charges. Im not a fan of that myself. Thing is, I saw Shaq get away with it in NJ the other night, and he wasnt whistled, well actually they just let the play continue. The inconsistency is the problem.

                  Stern is calling JVG a perpetuator(sp?) but at the same time never lifts a finger to address the issue. Its not JVG that has brought the NBA's integrity down, its the NBA that has allowed it to slide from where it once stood, and for a very long time now many of the fans have been turning away, or are completely disgusted at how the league has tanked in quality.

                  Did Stern already know this?

                  Comment

                  • Freelance
                    Banned
                    • Jul 2002
                    • 7021

                    #39
                    Re: What are you thoughts on David Stern?

                    Remember this about Stern.

                    Before him, NBA Finals games were on at 11:30 p.m. EST on tape delay.

                    Comment

                    • jujuhound
                      MVP
                      • Oct 2002
                      • 1040

                      #40
                      Re: What are you thoughts on David Stern?

                      Originally posted by KDRE
                      umm... I know tapes are sent in all of the time.
                      What Im saying is, immediately after this is when the ref called JVG.. before game 3, so no it had nothing to do with losing.
                      I agree with your post after this first sentence or two, so I won't comment on that.

                      The bold statement is of questionable if not highly doubtful veracity. I think JVG got busted trying to bolster his story with inside sources and it backfired on him. We'll never know since Van Gundy refuse to name his "ref" that told him this. BTW, does no one find it disturbing that an NBA coach is so buddy-buddy with a ref that he will secretly call him and tell him behind-the-scenes info from referee meetings/discussions? That screams out bias more than the refs watching for an alleged rules violation after it is brought to their attention.

                      Alternate theory to JVG conspiracy theory:

                      1. Yao and Dikembe actually do set moving picks every single time down court

                      2. Referees and the NBA actually do receive complaints from the Mavs and other teams complaining about this practice.

                      3. Refs watch for said illegal picks and actually call them a couple of times.

                      4. Van Gundy gets pissed, because his pick and roll that was working so well while Yao and Dikembe were allowed to set moving screens is not working quite as well anymore.

                      5. Van Gundy concocts conspiracy theory in attempt to get more calls for Yao.

                      6. Stern thinks he went to far and slaps him with big fine.

                      I'm not saying that this is the truth, but is it really any more implausible than Van Gundy's accusations?

                      Comment

                      • 23
                        yellow
                        • Sep 2002
                        • 66469

                        #41
                        Re: What are you thoughts on David Stern?

                        that's not my gripe though. I dont dislike him a commissioner. I do think the way the refs are handled and they way they continue to change the rules of the game from the top down is hurting the nba overall.

                        Comment

                        • Stu
                          All Star
                          • Jun 2004
                          • 7924

                          #42
                          Re: What are you thoughts on David Stern?

                          My whole problem is that the referees are calling the game differently in the playoffs than they did during the regular season.
                          Sim Gaming Network

                          Comment

                          • 23
                            yellow
                            • Sep 2002
                            • 66469

                            #43
                            Re: What are you thoughts on David Stern?

                            [QUOTE=jujuhound]I agree with your post after this first sentence or two, so I won't comment on that.

                            The bold statement is of questionable if not highly doubtful veracity.
                            But you dont know if its not true do you?

                            I think JVG got busted trying to bolster his story with inside sources and it backfired on him.
                            um you cant get busted if you are the one who brought it out to the public

                            We'll never know since Van Gundy refuse to name his "ref" that told him this.


                            BTW, does no one find it disturbing that an NBA coach is so buddy-buddy with a ref that he will secretly call him and tell him behind-the-scenes info from referee meetings/discussions? That screams out bias more than the refs watching for an alleged rules violation after it is brought to their attention.
                            Not at all. He's friends with Stu Jackson head of the league office. He brought him into the NBA. He has many friends in the organization. Is that also far fetched to you? Just go ahead and say you dont believe him and leave it at that.

                            Alternate theory to JVG conspiracy theory:

                            1. Yao and Dikembe actually do set moving picks every single time down court
                            Then call it. Before Cubans complaints I guess the refs weren't doing the right thing. Guess you also missed all of the phantom fouls too and flops called.

                            2.
                            Referees and the NBA actually do receive complaints from the Mavs and other teams complaining about this practice.
                            And they still fail to call the games right.

                            3. Refs watch for said illegal picks and actually call them a couple of times.

                            4.
                            Van Gundy gets pissed, because his pick and roll that was working so well while Yao and Dikembe were allowed to set moving screens is not working quite as well anymore.
                            um no.. Dallas made adjustments, and actually it was moreso noone guarding the Mavs perimeter guys than actually their D winning the games other than that one Terry slap.

                            5.
                            Van Gundy concocts conspiracy theory in attempt to get more calls for Yao.
                            Proof?

                            6.
                            Stern thinks he went to far and slaps him with big fine.
                            Huge surprise, but threatens to kick him out of the nba too?

                            I'm not saying that this is the truth, but is it really any more implausible than Van Gundy's accusations?
                            You attempt to disprove Van Gundy proved to be just as fruitless as your accusation conspiracy theory theme you have here.

                            Comment

                            • jujuhound
                              MVP
                              • Oct 2002
                              • 1040

                              #44
                              Re: What are you thoughts on David Stern?

                              [QUOTE=KDRE]
                              Originally posted by jujuhound
                              I agree with your post after this first sentence or two, so I won't comment on that.



                              But you dont know if its not true do you?



                              um you cant get busted if you are the one who brought it out to the public







                              Not at all. He's friends with Stu Jackson head of the league office. He brought him into the NBA. He has many friends in the organization. Is that also far fetched to you? Just go ahead and say you dont believe him and leave it at that.



                              Then call it. Before Cubans complaints I guess the refs weren't doing the right thing. Guess you also missed all of the phantom fouls too and flops called.

                              2.

                              And they still fail to call the games right.

                              3. Refs watch for said illegal picks and actually call them a couple of times.

                              4.

                              um no.. Dallas made adjustments, and actually it was moreso noone guarding the Mavs perimeter guys than actually their D winning the games other than that one Terry slap.

                              5.

                              Proof?

                              6.

                              Huge surprise, but threatens to kick him out of the nba too?



                              You attempt to disprove Van Gundy proved to be just as fruitless as your accusation conspiracy theory theme you have here.
                              This whole response was kind of a jumbled mess. I wasn't really able to tell what you were saying on a lot of things.

                              Originally posted by KDRE
                              You attempt to disprove Van Gundy proved to be just as fruitless as your accusation conspiracy theory theme you have here.
                              um, English please. I think you were attempting to say that I failed in an attempt to prove JVG a liar. If that is a correct interpretation of your post, then I don't think I made myself clear before.

                              My point was that he threw a serious allegation out there and mentioned an "unnamed source" to back it up. If you are going to say something like that, back it up with something. It just seemed to me that everyone was taking JVG's story as truth without really questioning it. I could just as easily make up an alternate story that was just as plausible. I never meant to imply that my theory was absolute fact or anything (that's why I labeled it as an alternate THEORY), just meant as an example of how ridiculous it was for Van Gundy to make those accusations, try to bolster his story by claiming an inside source and then refuse to name that source when called on it.

                              Comment

                              • 23
                                yellow
                                • Sep 2002
                                • 66469

                                #45
                                Re: What are you thoughts on David Stern?

                                I wouldnt call that being busted. I dont see it as being farfetched but I agree I dont think it should have been handled in that manner.

                                He said he has sent in complaints to the league office, and they agreed with him and told him they would change things, and they didnt do it.

                                All in all, my complaints arent about Van Gundy anyhow, its the leagues refusal to even acknowledge that there just might be an issue with refereeing.

                                We all know they cant make all of the calls. We also know they blow some big time calls all throughout the year.

                                We know they never ever hold the refs accountable for anything.

                                We know they cant be perfect as it is impossible, so lets do something similar to what the writer said. Give the coaches one or two challenges a game, to review a play.

                                Comment

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