So is anybody watching Calzaghe/Jones 24/7??

[Complex]

Re: So is anybody watching Calzaghe/Jones 24/7??

If he is challenged, then so can any other fighter, especially RJJ or anyone of that sort.

Very, very rarely do any two fighters meet in their prime.

RJJ's best win is probably B-Hop, which JC beat a better version of B-Hop than JCC did.

JC is the best SMW of all-time and it isn't really debateable.

Whoa cowboy, a better version of B-Hop? More defensive minded but not overall better. I think that's a reach.

RJJ best win was versus BHop? errr James Toney? David Reid? Tarver?

RJJ embarrased opponents for more than a decade, not just beat them.

[Complex]

Re: So is anybody watching Calzaghe/Jones 24/7??

Calzaghe is the modern day Rocky Marciano...An undefeated champion with most of his big wins coming late in his career against guys out of their prime...That said, the only real big name fighter Calzaghe has fought who was clearly not the same as he was in his prime is RJJ...With Bernard Hopkins do not be fooled by his age, he is still the same fighter he was 8 years ago...Ask Winky Wright and Kelly Pavlik how washed up old man Hopkins is...Calzaghe like Marciano has amassed a respectable resume of class fighters in their prime who get overlooked...Jeff Lacey, Kessler, Manfredo Jr, Veit were/are all class fighters in their prime...If Calzaghe fights Dawson, you can add him to the list...

Calzaghe has fought every big challenger willing to step in the ring with him and defeated them all...There is only one left and his name is Chad Dawson...IMO if Calzaghe fights and defeats Dawson he is easily top 20 in any respectable GOAT list...

You mean to tell me over the course of 40 fights, named opponents JUST started to want to fight Joe?

I will give you the Kessler fight, that was an impressive win. Jeff Lacy was never a great fighter, not even good. He was way over hyped. I am shocked you brought up Manfredo Jr at all.

Its hard for me to give oppoenents that fought lesser comp for the majority of their career a GOAT spot. You can argue that Floyd has accomplished more in less time than Joe did.

[allBthere]

Re: So is anybody watching Calzaghe/Jones 24/7??

You mean to tell me over the course of 40 fights, named opponents JUST started to want to fight Joe?

I will give you the Kessler fight, that was an impressive win. Jeff Lacy was never a great fighter, not even good. He was way over hyped. I am shocked you brought up Manfredo Jr at all.

Its hard for me to give oppoenents that fought lesser comp for the majority of their career a GOAT spot. You can argue that Floyd has accomplished more in less time than Joe did.

From his second fight in 1997 onwards he fights guys with great ring records. Notice all the guys with ____ and 1 meaning Joe is their only loss.

http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php...5364&cat=boxer

I happen to think Manfredo is a tough opponent too.
Also who are the names that has not fought? List 10 people that you think he should have already fought if you can. Either way for the past decade joe's been beating people with great records

[Complex]

Re: So is anybody watching Calzaghe/Jones 24/7??

From his second fight in 1997 onwards he fights guys with great ring records. Notice all the guys with ____ and 1 meaning Joe is their only loss.

http://www.boxrec.com/list_bouts.php...5364&cat=boxer

I happen to think Manfredo is a tough opponent too.
Also who are the names that has not fought? List 10 people that you think he should have already fought if you can. Either way for the past decade joe's been beating people with great records

You are reaching with this one. most respectable fighters start with undefeated records, its not until around 20 wins they see respectable competition. You can watch FnFs and see guys that are undefeated and after 15 seconds of watching them you wonder how in the world they were allowed in the ring.

[thelwig14]

Re: So is anybody watching Calzaghe/Jones 24/7??

Whoa cowboy, a better version of B-Hop? More defensive minded but not overall better. I think that's a reach.

RJJ best win was versus BHop? errr James Toney? David Reid? Tarver?

RJJ embarrased opponents for more than a decade, not just beat them.

Yeah, I am not going to get into this discussion with you.

If you think the B-Hop that RJJ beat is better than the one JC beat....you are out of your mind and having a discussion is fruitless. RJJ beat a version of B-Hop who never fought anyone, was grossly green, and pretty much was fighting the Eastern US club circuit.

There is no point addressing anything else.

[allBthere]

Re: So is anybody watching Calzaghe/Jones 24/7??

I just saw the fight, and thought it was entertaining. Didn't enjoy watching roy get beat up that much though. The download that I got had everything but cuts off right before the interviews...so I got to see a couple of national anthems, but don't get to hear how the fighters reacted to what just happened

[marq]

Re: So is anybody watching Calzaghe/Jones 24/7??

This is turning into just what I thought it would. JC is getting way too much credit and RJJ is not given enough. Now BHop was his biggest win when he DOMINATED a prime and at the time untouchable James Toney? Wow. Yes Joe won, but Roy is and has been far fadded. Look at all the reports: Rafael, Kellerman, etc. This was akin to Lennox beating a far gone Tyson. Would the results have been different if both fighters primes? Probably not, but when Lewis beat Tyson, it really wasn't a shock. Neither was last night. RJJ looked no different than when he came back from HW. Same issues: couldn't pull the trigger, no longer avoided hits, etc. He even got tagged on Pros vs. Joes...that's when I knew he was completely finished. Just thought he had one magic night left, I was wrong.

[JayBee74]

Re: So is anybody watching Calzaghe/Jones 24/7??

me too Tarheel. Who does he have working on that cut, a 2 year old?

Didn't see the fight, but by all accounts his cutman was the least of his troubles.

I've never seen Chad Dawson fight. What do u guys think Joe's chances are of beating Dawson??

No predictions-it would be a great fight-worth the money.

[edaddy]

Re: So is anybody watching Calzaghe/Jones 24/7??

Didn't see the fight, but by all accounts his cutman was the least of his troubles.

No predictions-it would be a great fight-worth the money.

Call me crazy lol but I think Calzalghe stops Dawson...From what I have seen of Dawson he has a suspect chin..He can't stand the pressure(witness his fight against Johnson)and he doesn't have the inside skills or legs to keep Calzaghe off of him...every tough fight I have seen him in with the exception of Tarver he has been presured hurt, and wears down during the fight..While I think it would be a tough first 5 rounds for Calzalghe because of Dawsons handspeed and youth he will eventually get to him wear him down and hurt because of that glass chin...Dawson has quick hands but doesn't have the type of movement that would keep Calzaghe off of him..Personally I thought Johnson beat him...

[Bamtino]

Re: So is anybody watching Calzaghe/Jones 24/7??

You mean to tell me over the course of 40 fights, named opponents JUST started to want to fight Joe?

No that's not what im telling you...What i said was Calzaghe has fought the best his division has to offer and defeated them all...There is only one opponent left for him to fight...

I will give you the Kessler fight, that was an impressive win. Jeff Lacy was never a great fighter, not even good. He was way over hyped. I am shocked you brought up Manfredo Jr at all.

Calzaghe went into that Lacey fight a big underdog...there is a reason for that...Lacey was over hyped but he is not a bumb, he is a class fighter, so is Manfredo Jr, Kessler and Veil...Calling them class fighters does not mean they're great, it means they're legitimate contenders for the title and worthy opponents...

Its hard for me to give oppoenents that fought lesser comp for the majority of their career a GOAT spot. You can argue that Floyd has accomplished more in less time than Joe did.

I understand where you're coming from pal, in boxing a fighters greatness is ultimately defined by the quality of his opposition...That said it is wrong to take away from a fighters accomplishments because he dominated in a lack luster division...Calzaghe has had 46 fights and won them all, that is remarkable, especially in this day in age...Calzaghe didn't avoid anybody, his division just recently started to pick up in terms of competition, its not his fault this influx of quality opponents came towards the end of his career and some of these guys are up in age...Since '98 Calzaghe has been fighting quality opposition, just because you haven't heard of some these guys that doesn't mean they're bumbs...There are quite a few fighters who many consider great who racked up a lot of wins over guys like the Manfredo Jr's of the world and haven't fought many big names except for old guys who should have retired...Also many of these fighters like Calzaghe stayed within their division for their entire careers even when there was no one for them to fight but cab drivers...Thus I am curious as to who you have on your top 20...I suspect Rocky Marciano and Joe Louis aren't on the list...

[JayBee74]

Re: So is anybody watching Calzaghe/Jones 24/7??

Complex, you have a blind spot when it comes to Calzage. You can't discredit Calzage for fighters he beat that you claim are over the hill. (EX-Hopkins, who gave Jermain Taylor all he could handle for two fights, beat Winky Wright, Tarver, and powerful and young Pavlik). It's not even a discussion whether to give him GOAT status, particularly when you are willing to give it to RJJ.

[Complex]

Re: So is anybody watching Calzaghe/Jones 24/7??

Yeah, I am not going to get into this discussion with you.

If you think the B-Hop that RJJ beat is better than the one JC beat....you are out of your mind and having a discussion is fruitless. RJJ beat a version of B-Hop who never fought anyone, was grossly green, and pretty much was fighting the Eastern US club circuit.

There is no point addressing anything else.

RJJ and he fought to a decision. Hopkins, even a young age was a beast. You may want to see some of his earlier fights, there a few on youtube. Many he took on a days notice only to dominate his opponent. There are two versions of Hopkins, the one we see today and one that was a bruising opponent earlier in his career. The older version is craftier and smarter, but the younger was stronger, faster and would KO you.

[Complex]

Re: So is anybody watching Calzaghe/Jones 24/7??

No that's not what im telling you...What i said was Calzaghe has fought the best his division has to offer and defeated them all...There is only one opponent left for him to fight...

Calzaghe went into that Lacey fight a big underdog...there is a reason for that...Lacey was over hyped but he is not a bumb, he is a class fighter, so is Manfredo Jr, Kessler and Veil...Calling them class fighters does not mean they're great, it means they're legitimate contenders for the title and worthy opponents...

I understand where you're coming from pal, in boxing a fighters greatness is ultimately defined by the quality of his opposition...That said it is wrong to take away from a fighters accomplishments because he dominated in a lack luster division...Calzaghe has had 46 fights and won them all, that is remarkable, especially in this day in age...Calzaghe didn't avoid anybody, his division just recently started to pick up in terms of competition, its not his fault this influx of quality opponents came towards the end of his career and some of these guys are up in age...Since '98 Calzaghe has been fighting quality opposition, just because you haven't heard of some these guys that doesn't mean they're bumbs...There are quite a few fighters who many consider great who racked up a lot of wins over guys like the Manfredo Jr's of the world and haven't fought many big names except for old guys who should have retired...Also many of these fighters like Calzaghe stayed within their division for their entire careers even when there was no one for them to fight but cab drivers...Thus I am curious as to who you have on your top 20...I suspect Rocky Marciano and Joe Louis aren't on the list...

Yes Joe fought the best of his division, no doubt. Still does not put him on my GOAT top 20 list.

Joe was NOT an underdog vs Lacy. Anybody with any boxing knowledge knew what was going to happen to Lacy. he was overhyped and since then has never recovered. He had to cheat to beat a guy on FNF a few months ago. Kessler was a strong win for Joe, the rest you named are not.

I am not saying Joe did not rule his division, but he is not on my top 20 GOAT list. 40+ wins is remarkable but most of those guys never amounted to anything. There were many named opponents that watned to fight Joe years ago, and he made no attempt to fight any of them until now.

And please stop mentioning Manfredo Jr like he something more than a C class fighter.

[Complex]

Re: So is anybody watching Calzaghe/Jones 24/7??

Complex, you have a blind spot when it comes to Calzage. You can't discredit Calzage for fighters he beat that you claim are over the hill. (EX-Hopkins, who gave Jermain Taylor all he could handle for two fights, beat Winky Wright, Tarver, and powerful and young Pavlik). It's not even a discussion whether to give him GOAT status, particularly when you are willing to give it to RJJ.

GOAT status is reserved for a very select few in my book.

RJJ won an olympic medal, titles at middleweight, super-middleweight, lt heavyweight and heavyweight. Throw in the fact that for several years no opponent he faced went the distance with him. That makes him an easy fit for GOAT status.

[Vast]

Re: So is anybody watching Calzaghe/Jones 24/7??

Complex, you have a blind spot when it comes to Calzage. You can't discredit Calzage for fighters he beat that you claim are over the hill. (EX-Hopkins, who gave Jermain Taylor all he could handle for two fights, beat Winky Wright, Tarver, and powerful and young Pavlik). It's not even a discussion whether to give him GOAT status, particularly when you are willing to give it to RJJ.

Yeah I agree. Complex is alone on an island in this discussion. If Calzaghe fights and beats Dawson ur talking about a man who defeated everyone he faced, and u can't say he dodged someone either. Undefeated young fighters, ATG's in their prime (IMO Hopkins is still in his prime!!) and past their prime RJJ. Kessler could be a great champion, great fighter easily outclassed by Calzaghe.
Its ridiculous to even argue this, he's defeated great fighters, and showed tremendous heart and skill while doing it. He may not have fought as many fighters that you believe are great. But thats ur opinion.

Name 2 SMW who are better than him all-time?