UFC trying to steal FNs thunder.

[aholbert32]

Re: UFC trying to steal FNs thunder.

The only thing people have been begging for a long time in fn series has been a good career mode if UFC does that right i'll give them bigs up

Ive been begging for a more complete CAF, better audio and a better career mode.

[aholbert32]

Re: UFC trying to steal FNs thunder.

And I think you'd be very interested to hear the EA team speak about how difficult it is to sign some of these fighters.
I was told that some guys are next to impossible to even get ahold of. And then there are some who think they're worth more than they are while some others want to have 100% control over how their fighter is rated.

I read that when RJJ was at the top of his game, his managers could barely get him on the phone let alone companies seeking his rights for merchandise or games.

I still think thats BS. They had over 2 years to call boxers. Your telling me that it takes two years to get in contact with Vlad? Williams? Haye? the Marquez Brothers? For what is essentially free money? They dont have to mocap or do anything. All they have to do is sign a contract and collect a check.

I'm just not buying it.

[Money99]

Re: UFC trying to steal FNs thunder.

I still think thats BS. They had over 2 years to call boxers. Your telling me that it takes two years to get in contact with Vlad? Williams? Haye? the Marquez Brothers? For what is essentially free money? They dont have to mocap or do anything. All they have to do is sign a contract and collect a check.

I'm just not buying it.

But how do you know that the Klictscho brothers , for example, didn't ask for $1M each? How can EA make money with those demands? Now multiply that by 20 current, popular fighters.
Don't fool yourself into believing every fighter can't wait to sign their rights away for $5000.

The whole reason EA didn't get into the MLB licensing war was because the amount of money MLB wanted was more than what they could make.

Dana White rules the UFC with an iron fist and it's laughable how little some of his top fighters are paid. With how fast the sport is growing, you're going to see more and more fighters like Fedor take their rights into their own hands and fight for the biggest bidder.
I wouldn't be surprised if we see more and more of this in the next 2-5 years. Heck, Randy Coutoure was trying to do that but his contract was air-tight. If his contract had expired we would have already seen two of the top heavyweights in the world fight as free agents.

Mark my words, one day MMA will be an free-agent market where fighters will own their own rights and have their own manager, promoters, etc so that Dana White and the CEO's of the other factions will have to bid to put on bouts - just like boxing with it's corrupt WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO, etc.

And when that day comes, I can't wait to hear everyone on OS complain that THQ, EA or whoever else wasn't able to get all their favorite fighters in the game because guys like Rampage wanted $800K, Vanderlei Silva wanted $1M, etc.

I'm not saying all of this to defend EA or kiss their butts, I'm saying it as a matter of reality. When you negotiate with hundreds of separate entities, it is nearly impossible to get everyone on board and for a reasonable price.

One of the producers on FNRd4 told me that they tried to get a marginally popular fighter under contract but his demands were simply laughable. He wouldn't say who it was.
Lets say you were working for EA and you desperately tried to get David Haye under contract. But during the proceedings he said he wanted $750,000 and complete control over how his fighter was portrayed - the extent that he never wanted his virtual self to ever be knocked out.
Saying that you only have $2M to spend on fighters. That $750K takes up nearly 50% of your budget - bye bye Pacquio, Hatton, Pavlik, Ali.
Now you have to come to OS and hear everyone say "You had 2 years! How come Haye isn't in the game!?!?!?".
And then you can reply, we spent all our money on top fighters like Pacquio, Hatton, Pavlik, Ali and TYSON and we didn't have anymore money left over to sign a semi-famous non-champion heavyweight in Haye.

And to be honest, who would you rather have? Contemporary champs like Pacman, Hatton, Pavlik and legends like Ali and Tyson or just Haye? Because nobody here can say with 100% facts that this wasn't the compromise that had to be made.

[thelwig14]

Re: UFC trying to steal FNs thunder.

I still think thats BS. They had over 2 years to call boxers. Your telling me that it takes two years to get in contact with Vlad? Williams? Haye? the Marquez Brothers? For what is essentially free money? They dont have to mocap or do anything. All they have to do is sign a contract and collect a check.

I'm just not buying it.

Don't buy it.

I have one degree of separation from many fighters. It is pure ignorance and laziness on EA's part. The roster, current and old, is laughable.

[kwas676]

Re: UFC trying to steal FNs thunder.

But how do you know that the Klictscho brothers , for example, didn't ask for $1M each? How can EA make money with those demands? Now multiply that by 20 current, popular fighters.
Don't fool yourself into believing every fighter can't wait to sign their rights away for $5000.

The whole reason EA didn't get into the MLB licensing war was because the amount of money MLB wanted was more than what they could make.

Dana White rules the UFC with an iron fist and it's laughable how little some of his top fighters are paid. With how fast the sport is growing, you're going to see more and more fighters like Fedor take their rights into their own hands and fight for the biggest bidder.
I wouldn't be surprised if we see more and more of this in the next 2-5 years. Heck, Randy Coutoure was trying to do that but his contract was air-tight. If his contract had expired we would have already seen two of the top heavyweights in the world fight as free agents.

Mark my words, one day MMA will be an free-agent market where fighters will own their own rights and have their own manager, promoters, etc so that Dana White and the CEO's of the other factions will have to bid to put on bouts - just like boxing with it's corrupt WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO, etc.

And when that day comes, I can't wait to hear everyone on OS complain that THQ, EA or whoever else wasn't able to get all their favorite fighters in the game because guys like Rampage wanted $800K, Vanderlei Silva wanted $1M, etc.

I'm not saying all of this to defend EA or kiss their butts, I'm saying it as a matter of reality. When you negotiate with hundreds of separate entities, it is nearly impossible to get everyone on board and for a reasonable price.

One of the producers on FNRd4 told me that they tried to get a marginally popular fighter under contract but his demands were simply laughable. He wouldn't say who it was.
Lets say you were working for EA and you desperately tried to get David Haye under contract. But during the proceedings he said he wanted $750,000 and complete control over how his fighter was portrayed - the extent that he never wanted his virtual self to ever be knocked out.
Saying that you only have $2M to spend on fighters. That $750K takes up nearly 50% of your budget - bye bye Pacquio, Hatton, Pavlik, Ali.
Now you have to come to OS and hear everyone say "You had 2 years! How come Haye isn't in the game!?!?!?".
And then you can reply, we spent all our money on top fighters like Pacquio, Hatton, Pavlik, Ali and TYSON and we didn't have anymore money left over to sign a semi-famous non-champion heavyweight in Haye.

And to be honest, who would you rather have? Contemporary champs like Pacman, Hatton, Pavlik and legends like Ali and Tyson or just Haye? Because nobody here can say with 100% facts that this wasn't the compromise that had to be made.

Its like people rather put in there smart remarks then face facts.

[mgoblue]

Re: UFC trying to steal FNs thunder.

Mark my words, one day MMA will be an free-agent market where fighters will own their own rights and have their own manager, promoters, etc so that Dana White and the CEO's of the other factions will have to bid to put on bouts - just like boxing with it's corrupt WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO, etc.

I truly hope this never happens, because it's all this crap that's killing boxing and making MMA the "go to" when it comes to fighting sports.

You are right though, it's not EA's fault that some of these boxers have overinflated egos and charge too much. That being said, it's completely valid to complain about a lack of fighters in the roster when that's pretty key to the sport itself.

[thereal31]

Re: UFC trying to steal FNs thunder.

Don't buy it.

I have one degree of separation from many fighters. It is pure ignorance and laziness on EA's part. The roster, current and old, is laughable.

At first you had some valid points but know you just sound ignorant sorry.

[thelwig14]

Re: UFC trying to steal FNs thunder.

At first you had some valid points but know you just sound ignorant sorry.

Apology excepted.

[aholbert32]

Re: UFC trying to steal FNs thunder.

But how do you know that the Klictscho brothers , for example, didn't ask for $1M each? How can EA make money with those demands? Now multiply that by 20 current, popular fighters.
Don't fool yourself into believing every fighter can't wait to sign their rights away for $5000.

The whole reason EA didn't get into the MLB licensing war was because the amount of money MLB wanted was more than what they could make.

Dana White rules the UFC with an iron fist and it's laughable how little some of his top fighters are paid. With how fast the sport is growing, you're going to see more and more fighters like Fedor take their rights into their own hands and fight for the biggest bidder.
I wouldn't be surprised if we see more and more of this in the next 2-5 years. Heck, Randy Coutoure was trying to do that but his contract was air-tight. If his contract had expired we would have already seen two of the top heavyweights in the world fight as free agents.

Mark my words, one day MMA will be an free-agent market where fighters will own their own rights and have their own manager, promoters, etc so that Dana White and the CEO's of the other factions will have to bid to put on bouts - just like boxing with it's corrupt WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO, etc.

And when that day comes, I can't wait to hear everyone on OS complain that THQ, EA or whoever else wasn't able to get all their favorite fighters in the game because guys like Rampage wanted $800K, Vanderlei Silva wanted $1M, etc.

I'm not saying all of this to defend EA or kiss their butts, I'm saying it as a matter of reality. When you negotiate with hundreds of separate entities, it is nearly impossible to get everyone on board and for a reasonable price.

One of the producers on FNRd4 told me that they tried to get a marginally popular fighter under contract but his demands were simply laughable. He wouldn't say who it was.
Lets say you were working for EA and you desperately tried to get David Haye under contract. But during the proceedings he said he wanted $750,000 and complete control over how his fighter was portrayed - the extent that he never wanted his virtual self to ever be knocked out.
Saying that you only have $2M to spend on fighters. That $750K takes up nearly 50% of your budget - bye bye Pacquio, Hatton, Pavlik, Ali.
Now you have to come to OS and hear everyone say "You had 2 years! How come Haye isn't in the game!?!?!?".
And then you can reply, we spent all our money on top fighters like Pacquio, Hatton, Pavlik, Ali and TYSON and we didn't have anymore money left over to sign a semi-famous non-champion heavyweight in Haye.

And to be honest, who would you rather have? Contemporary champs like Pacman, Hatton, Pavlik and legends like Ali and Tyson or just Haye? Because nobody here can say with 100% facts that this wasn't the compromise that had to be made.

So much to respond to:

1) If Vlad's contract demands were too much...EA should say so. Thats easy enough. Say "We wanted Haye and Vlad but they wanted too much and we thought they were too expensive." That does three things: puts the blame on the fighter, takes the heat on EA and gives us an explanation. Not that lame explanation "We had trouble contacting them." In 2009, a company like EA cant contact a fighter? Seriously?

2) You wont see that happen in MMA anytime soon. Dana and the Fertittas are smart. They see what boxing did wrong and are doing the opposite. A promoter would need to poach 8-10 of the UFC's fighters and sign Fedor to even contend long term with the UFC. No promoters have the money to do that (even those backed by millionaires like Cuban and Trump have failed) and even if one did, Zuffa has the money to match or beat most of their offers.

Their contracts are air tight. If you sign one, you are in the UFC for anywhere from 4-6 fights. If you are a current champ, they have options to extend those deals. They proved with Couture, that they are willing go to court and shelve a fighter for a year or more if they dont want to fight on their terms. I'm not worried about the UFC going down that path anytime soon.

3) Come on, no one is saying that they should trade Haye for Tyson but I refuse to believe that EVERY boxer who didnt make the cut had ridiculous demands. Shoot there are high profile, more expensive fighters that are in the game that could be cut. Does anyone really want a heavyweight James Toney? George Foreman? Sergio Mora? I know for a fact that Foreman's demands are ridiculous (I negotiated a licensing deal with him once). So ridiculous that EA could have signed 3-4 boxers with his check.

[Money99]

Re: UFC trying to steal FNs thunder.

So much to respond to:

1) If Vlad's contract demands were too much...EA should say so. Thats easy enough. Say "We wanted Haye and Vlad but they wanted too much and we thought they were too expensive." That does three things: puts the blame on the fighter, takes the heat on EA and gives us an explanation. Not that lame explanation "We had trouble contacting them." In 2009, a company like EA cant contact a fighter? Seriously?

So EA should out Wlad as being greedy? Bye-bye future negotiations.

2) You wont see that happen in MMA anytime soon. Dana and the Fertittas are smart. They see what boxing did wrong and are doing the opposite. A promoter would need to poach 8-10 of the UFC's fighters and sign Fedor to even contend long term with the UFC. No promoters have the money to do that (even those backed by millionaires like Cuban and Trump have failed) and even if one did, Zuffa has the money to match or beat most of their offers.

Their contracts are air tight. If you sign one, you are in the UFC for anywhere from 4-6 fights. If you are a current champ, they have options to extend those deals. They proved with Couture, that they are willing go to court and shelve a fighter for a year or more if they dont want to fight on their terms. I'm not worried about the UFC going down that path anytime soon.

Because of everything you said above, Fedor is still not UFC property. And Cotoure was doing everything in his power to become a free agent.

Why do you think Dana White is so tight-lipped about PPV earnings? Maybe because he knows if the fighters find out he's netting $50M per event* the stars of UFC will realize that they're being shortchanged.

I'm kind of a sports nut when it comes to biography's and histories of certain leagues. Everything that is going on in UFC reminds me so much of what the four major team sports unions have gone through.
Trust me, it's coming and when it does, Dana White will be in trouble. It's why he's ruling with such an iron fist. He wants to keep the fighters in their place and make them feel they should be lucky making any money for doing what they do.

3) Come on, no one is saying that they should trade Haye for Tyson but I refuse to believe that EVERY boxer who didnt make the cut had ridiculous demands. Shoot there are high profile, more expensive fighters that are in the game that could be cut. Does anyone really want a heavyweight James Toney? George Foreman? Sergio Mora? I know for a fact that Foreman's demands are ridiculous (I negotiated a licensing deal with him once). So ridiculous that EA could have signed 3-4 boxers with his check.

But we don't know what's going on behind closed doors.

Also, what percentage of people who are going to buy this game will know who Israel Vasquez is? He's one of the best fighters in the world and I know people are pissed that guys like him aren't in the game. But EA knows that the money used on him would, by-and-large, be wasted.
So they go get Foreman. Why? Who on this planet doesn't know who George Foreman is? My freakin' wife knows who he is and I don't know if she's ever watched a fight in her life.

It is what it is. You're never going to get a boxing game with all the top talent in the world. It's too expensive and the semantics are too great.
And it's also why they created such an indepth CAF feature so everyone can have all the fighters they want.

I just find it laughable that there are people here who truly believe they could sign every fighter under the sun before they've finished breakfast - and within their budget.
I'm bringing up facts that I obtained from people who actually work on this game, while everyone who counters my points is using pure speculation based on their own imaginations.

*Only using $50M as an example. I have no idea what he nets per PPV event.

[aholbert32]

Re: UFC trying to steal FNs thunder.

So EA should out Wlad as being greedy? Bye-bye future negotiations.



Because of everything you said above, Fedor is still not UFC property. And Cotoure was doing everything in his power to become a free agent.

Why do you think Dana White is so tight-lipped about PPV earnings? Maybe because he knows if the fighters find out he's netting $50M per event* the stars of UFC will realize that they're being shortchanged.

I'm kind of a sports nut when it comes to biography's and histories of certain leagues. Everything that is going on in UFC reminds me so much of what the four major team sports unions have gone through.
Trust me, it's coming and when it does, Dana White will be in trouble. It's why he's ruling with such an iron fist. He wants to keep the fighters in their place and make them feel they should be lucky making any money for doing what they do.



But we don't know what's going on behind closed doors.

Also, what percentage of people who are going to buy this game will know who Israel Vasquez is? He's one of the best fighters in the world and I know people are pissed that guys like him aren't in the game. But EA knows that the money used on him would, by-and-large, be wasted.
So they go get Foreman. Why? Who on this planet doesn't know who George Foreman is? My freakin' wife knows who he is and I don't know if she's ever watched a fight in her life.

It is what it is. You're never going to get a boxing game with all the top talent in the world. It's too expensive and the semantics are too great.
And it's also why they created such an indepth CAF feature so everyone can have all the fighters they want.

I just find it laughable that there are people here who truly believe they could sign every fighter under the sun before they've finished breakfast - and within their budget.
I'm bringing up facts that I obtained from people who actually work on this game, while everyone who counters my points is using pure speculation based on their own imaginations.

*Only using $50M as an example. I have no idea what he nets per PPV event.

Future negotiations? Please. EA had no problem telling everybody that the MLB negotiations were too expensive. Why? Because they know that they can always come back when their current deal is over with 2k and negotiate. Money talks. Also its not like I'm asking them to say "Vlad is greedy as hell". Just "We have a small amount to spend on fighters and Vlad's price was too much for us right now. We hope to add him to later versions" See how easy that was?

Fedor isnt UFC property because he wants freedom to fight wherever he wants and the UFC doesnt play that ****. You know what? Doesnt really affect the UFC at all. I would love to see Fedor in the UFc but if he never fights there...who cares? They have 95% of the most popular fighters in the world. As for Couture, he failed and serves as a lesson to every other fighter in MMA. You sign a contract with Zuffa, you better honor it. Try to get out and we will spend money to prevent you from fighting. Couture did everything in his power to leave and he failed, lost a year of his career and ended up right back in the UFC.

You cant compare the UFC to major sports leagues for a number of reasons. The best comparisions are individual sports like Tennis, Racing, Boxing and Wrestling. None of those leagues have unions. The fighters are independent contractors just like Boxing and will always be. Zuffa is smart enough to pay the top level fighters well enough that they have no reason to leave. Affliction tried to compete and failed. They have the best fighter in the world and still struggle to pack arenas. Same with EliteXC.

Stop making excuses for EA and mischaracterizing what people are saying. One, no one is buying this game for George Foreman. Especially 70's Foreman. Two, do you know how many hard core boxing fans and Hispanics would buy the game if Vazquez or the Marquez Brothers were in the game? You cant tell me that you couldnt get all 3 or at least 2 of them for Foreman's price.

Also its not pure speculation. I know FIRSTHAND what Foreman costs. So I can speak on that. What I'm not doing is buying everything that EA says. Ive been to plenty of community days like the one you went to and I know they feed you some truth and some crap. Ive had developers lie to me about features that are in their game.

[Gotmadskillzson]

Re: UFC trying to steal FNs thunder.

Bottom line......

1. UFC Undisputed comes out May 19th

2. Fight Night Round 4 comes out June 30th

That is 5 weeks apart. If you can't afford to buy both with a 5 week gap in between the 2, then you working the wrong job.

Now if any game steals FNR4 sales figures, it would be the new Splinter Cell game that comes out on June 30th also.

Also boxing died YEARS ago when they split up into all those different organizations. It is so many damn titles in boxing now that it will make your head spin. Boxing needs to be unified again.

[Money99]

Re: UFC trying to steal FNs thunder.

I guess we can go back and forth all day on this.
I'm simply trying to present the other side to the story.

I'm sorry if you've had other producers lie to you at these things, but you can't paint them all with the same brush. I felt the FN producers were sincere about the things they revealed.

You also bring up a good point regarding the Hispanic population. But at the same time, they make up a very small portion.

And I know a lot of people that want to recreate the Rumble in the Jungle with 70's Foreman and Ali.

Maybe the UFC can survive on it's own. But all it takes is one large investor to disrupt the apple cart. What if Lesner goes on to clean out the 3 or 4 decent heavyweights in the UFC and the only fight left is Fedor? Someone like Mark Cuban could come along, sign the two of them to a one-fight contract and make a killing with both fighters sharing the PPV revenues. It takes only one seed to grow an idea and suddenly other fighters might start to feel they can make out better as a free agent.
The fighters currently under contract with Dana aren't necessarily free-agents. A free agent is someone that can sign shorterm deals, not 4-6 years where they can't do anything, or dictate who they fight for most of their primes.
Dana's a genius in convincing guys to give up their best years for peanuts thus far.
But I'm not going to be surprised in the least if the UFC loses it's grip and it turns into a free-for-all like boxing has.

There was a time when boxers had very little say because only 1 or 2 people controlled what happened. Who's to say the same won't occur in MMA?

[Money99]

Re: UFC trying to steal FNs thunder.

Also boxing died YEARS ago when they split up into all those different organizations. It is so many damn titles in boxing now that it will make your head spin. Boxing needs to be unified again.

Couldn't agree more.
It's killed the sport. Nobody knows who the real champs are.

[aholbert32]

Re: UFC trying to steal FNs thunder.

I guess we can go back and forth all day on this.
I'm simply trying to present the other side to the story.

I'm sorry if you've had other producers lie to you at these things, but you can't paint them all with the same brush. I felt the FN producers were sincere about the things they revealed.

You also bring up a good point regarding the Hispanic population. But at the same time, they make up a very small portion.

And I know a lot of people that want to recreate the Rumble in the Jungle with 70's Foreman and Ali.

Maybe the UFC can survive on it's own. But all it takes is one large investor to disrupt the apple cart. What if Lesner goes on to clean out the 3 or 4 decent heavyweights in the UFC and the only fight left is Fedor? Someone like Mark Cuban could come along, sign the two of them to a one-fight contract and make a killing with both fighters sharing the PPV revenues. It takes only one seed to grow an idea and suddenly other fighters might start to feel they can make out better as a free agent.
The fighters currently under contract with Dana aren't necessarily free-agents. A free agent is someone that can sign shorterm deals, not 4-6 years where they can't do anything, or dictate who they fight for most of their primes.
Dana's a genius in convincing guys to give up their best years for peanuts thus far.
But I'm not going to be surprised in the least if the UFC loses it's grip and it turns into a free-for-all like boxing has.

There was a time when boxers had very little say because only 1 or 2 people controlled what happened. Who's to say the same won't occur in MMA?

I hear you, Money. I just disagree. I think you are underrestimating how much an effect hispanic fans have on boxing. They are the only demo where promoters can plan PPVs around. Why do you think someone like Chavez Jr. can carry a PPV?

Dana would need to lose 8-10 top fighters for another league to even have a chance. The example about someone like Cuban coming in and offering big money has already happened. Its called Affliction and the millionaire is Donald Trump and its pretty much failed. They paid Fedor, Barnett, Babalu and several others big checks and now they are close to going under. Also, you will never get a scenario where 8 fighters all have their contracts up. Maybe you get 1 or 2 but not enough to be legit competition.

Also, I wouldnt call $150,000-750,000 peanuts. Especially if you get that 3 times a year. Thats the amount that guys like Liddell, Rampage, Silva, Couture and GSP are making.