The producers are blaming boxing for this game failure

[AllJuicedUp]

Re: The producers are blaming boxing for this game failure

Well... I respect boxers because in the sport they fight standing up and they don't kick a man while he's down.

its illegal in the UFC to kick a guy on the ground... just sayin

either way, its pretty apparent you're a troll

[AllJuicedUp]

Re: The producers are blaming boxing for this game failure

as for the OP. I am one of those people who aren't boxing fans at all, but was really looking forward to playing this game. And then I played the demo, and read up on the game, and came away disappointed.

I may not be a big boxing fan, but I was looking forward to learning the sweat science, and the game did not deliver for me, so I did not buy it. I feel like the game has so much potential, but just lacks in so many areas.

Also, I know everyone keeps saying MMA has replaced boxing as the #1 combat sport, but don't ppv boxing matches still outdraw UFC fights by quite a bit. Boxing may be stagnant while UFC is rising, but last I checked, those big PPV boxing matches dwarfed the big UFC fights.

[allBthere]

Re: The producers are blaming boxing for this game failure

What he said isn't totally ignorant because grappling plays more of a part of MMA. The Ground and pound is more evident than any other techniques. I have family members who are into Martial Arts. I watch MMA but it's not that interesting to me. I will not disrespect it.

* Let's stay on topic!

I'm in the same boat only opposite as far as participation. I grew up watching boxing, became a TKD black belt at 11, got another one at 15, but always loved and appreciated boxing. I currently train in MT and boxing when I can. I simply cannot stand the MMA vs Boxing debate. MMA people keep screaming "boxing is dead" and Boxing reactionaries keep minimizing MMA. I love both and appreciate both.

with MMA obviously on the rise, why do fans of MMA only, keep whining about 'boxing is dead'...for one it isn't and there are many awesome cards popping up a lot lately, but it's like their getting some kind of validation by making the claim. Why do you care?!!? if boxing is so 'dead' why be a mindless echo? it's a great sport with great history and great televison. MMA is also a great sport with great entertainment value.

if you're truly a big MMA fan, why the need to try to crap on boxing?? seriously ask yourselves that question - it's like it pisses people that like MMA that it's on TV. Take an effing boxing lesson or something!!

I really appreciate your opinion, and the fact that you're not going to thrash MMA because you don't enjoy it. I really wish this was more common. It's a problem I have with Jim Lampley even though I like his commentary (aside from BAM BAM BAM) because it's almost like he feels so threatened by the popularity of MMA that he needs to NEG it.

Enjoy one, Enjoy Both, Enjoy neither - but don't crap on either sport. They are both FANTASTIC.

Fat dudes wearing tap out shirts blabering about boxing is dead are cowards without balls.

as far as the game...we just need more companies making combat sports and many of the issues will work themselves out.

ps. to that one ignorant dude - poetic's list was actually USED by the producers, there is no shred of arrogance there. + his boxing experience and knowledge.

I saw Diaz vs Berto again today - you think boxing is dead???? nah.

pps. I'm producing another TV boxing event in the GTA again soon. Anyone who wants tickets pm me I have about 60.

[gravity62]

Re: The producers are blaming boxing for this game failure

I really have no problem with Marshall Arts but I don't think it translats that well into a sport, is what I meant to add. Kicking is not as manly as punching and choke holds, almost mameing a guy's arm or leg to get a TKO is just not as fun to watch. It get's old to me real fast. The sport of Boxing has had over a 100 years of success... Boxing's a great sport in general.. While MMA is just over the top to gererate more viewers and money then the sport of Boxing. MMA is just more realistic "Pro Wrestling", there's nothing wrong with that, I wouldn't claim it to be a better sport than Boxing is, though.

[haiuguyz]

Re: The producers are blaming boxing for this game failure

I used to like MMA better, and boxing HAS gotten a bit boring lately to me, but after 2 knee surgeries, and me realizing the better career move would be to switch to boxing, I've grown to like it more

[Money99]

Re: The producers are blaming boxing for this game failure

The debate between the two disciplines will never cease and it's because both sports want something the other has:

Boxing wants UFC's structure and UFC wants boxing's history.

The UFC has a better chance of earning their own history over the years. Boxing will only get more corrupt.

At the same time, I still believe a big boxing fight would destroy the best UFC matchup in regards to recognition and PPV money.
If Pac-PBF were going to fight on the same night as GSP and Silva, I believe boxing wins that war. Hands down.
And I honestly believe the best fight out there right now is the Klitscho bro's fighting each other.
Even non-fans would tune in, or pay attention to that.
But that only goes back to my previous statement. If boxing were run like the UFC, we'd probably be anticipating the 3rd fight between Pac and PBF.

[Bamtino]

Re: The producers are blaming boxing for this game failure

The blatant ignorance of fans from both sides of this debate is truly shameful...Look there is no way around it, regardless of what you think of MMA, in 2011 MMA is the most popular combat sport in the world...

Boxing has been on the decline for many years now...That decline is largely dare i say entirely due to the politics of the sport...These dinosaur promoters and alphabet soup commissions have completely destroyed the integrity of the sport...Being champion means nothing anymore, these days guys spend more time b1tching about money and trying to get every advantage in negotiations than actually boxing...

That said I find it utterly comedic these fools over at EA have the audacity to use their fans as beta testers and want to blame the sports decline in popularity for the failure of their product...Maybe just maybe your lackluster game (to say the least) produced negative word of mouth which lead to those poor sales?

Brizzo and his team were given a massive wishlist the fans carefully put together...They had two years to deliver a more authentic boxing experience and all we got was more of the same with a new lick of paint...So Brizzo and EA can blame the sports declining popularity all they want if that makes them feel better...The truth is your game was lousy...Fans like me who bought all the previous games in this franchise stayed away from FNC because we're tired of the same old bullsh1t...

[DaveDQ]

Re: The producers are blaming boxing for this game failure

The debate between the two disciplines will never cease and it's because both sports want something the other has:

Boxing wants UFC's structure and UFC wants boxing's history.

This is a really good explanation of the whole boxing vs UFC thing. I do know some really strong fans of both and those guys don't run after trying to legitimize their choice. This sense that we have to prove our sport over another is quite shallow. Just enjoy your preference. if it's that meaningful and entertaining to follow to you...you don't have to campaign for it. just enjoy your choice.

[ajns]

Re: The producers are blaming boxing for this game failure

This is a really good explanation of the whole boxing vs UFC thing. I do know some really strong fans of both and those guys don't run after trying to legitimize their choice. This sense that we have to prove our sport over another is quite shallow. Just enjoy your preference. if it's that meaningful and entertaining to follow to you...you don't have to campaign for it. just enjoy your choice.

My "defending" my sport preference (boxing) isn't rooted in needing to be better or best. It is rooted in a real fear that sports like MMA are PERMANENTLY taking fans from boxing that may weaken it to the point of being the USFL. Maybe I am crazy and it's all cyclical, but I think there are some real warning signs that boxing has failed to heed over the last 10 years.

This has been an ongoing problem for at least a decade, even before there was a noticeable drop in popular interest or an organized MMA. It stems from the lack of a national/international governing body and little or no standardization of the training for referees and judges, which causes legitimacy problems. Now, the WWE survived for years when people knew it was fake because it wasn't looked at as sport. It was entertainment (hence the name change after much legal wrangling). Boxing isn't trying to be entertainment alone...YET (God forbid EVER). And so it is caught in between two worlds, sort of like a jack of all trades, master of none.
I can tell you from experience that it is better to do one thing better than anyone else in the world that try to do hundreds of things so-so.

The biggest problem facing the sport now as far as getting things fixed and putting things back on the right track is money. The same dozen or so promoters do all the fights.They exert a disproportionate amount of influence over the ABC governing bodies (own them in some cases). Even though there may be less money as a whole being spent on boxing when only 12 promoters are splitting that money, it only means that they are only filthy rich, not obscenely filthy rich. Until they feel it in their pockets they will fight any talk of a single commission and standardization of judging and refereeing standards (let alone some kind of a retirement fund for guys like Meldrick Taylor and Ali). And honestly, boxing will be dead before that happens.

It is going to take 2 things to fix boxing: (1) Fans really voicing their opinion and exerting as much pressure to get the money men to listen; (2) State Athletic Commissions banding together and refusing to sanction boxers that don't meet a global standard. If you can't get them to play by the rules of the game as constituted, you move the game. Without this, boxing's legitimacy problems will get worse and worse. Guys like Mayweather don't help either. For all the hype surrounding his fights and his unbeaten record and all the money he generates for himself and the sport, he damages the sport far more when he takes YEARS off in mock retirement or in court. If you look at the best eras of boxing, you'll see that the stars (good guys or bad guys) fought...A LOT. And they fought each other regardless of the risk. No one is suggesting that everyone turn into Archie Moore (185-23-11), but you gotta fight and you have to fight recognized contenders not straw men (enter that international boxing commission).

Until those things happen, boxing's pie will continue to shrink (Again, this isn't about the megafights or the PPV extravaganzas. It's about the vast middle.). I truly fear that we are on a course that leads to boxing's ultimate demise. Unless we change that course, I don't know where boxing is in 10 years.

[DaveDQ]

Re: The producers are blaming boxing for this game failure

Adam, good points. I see your concern and unfortunately I think it's already taking place. I still say too that what has happened with boxing is people are seeing images of its brutality on display with retired fighters. It is not a glamorous after-sport. In the US, boxing is not a sport that parents sit their kids down and say, "Johnny, how about boxing?" The same with MMA though.

But MMA is growing strong. It's a huge part of pop culture these days. Boxing simply isn't. Not in the US. Unfortunately, I don't see boxing changing as an organization, and I don't even think that would help too much in its appeal to various sports fans. I think it suffers from sort of what NASCAR suffers from. And that is many see it as boring. They want quick bursts of action like MMA can give. More often than not, boxing goes the distance and that large demographic doesn't want that. They want 3 rounds of fast paced action.

[ajns]

Re: The producers are blaming boxing for this game failure

... And that is many see it as boring. They want quick bursts of action like MMA can give. More often than not, boxing goes the distance and that large demographic doesn't want that. They want 3 rounds of fast paced action.

You think some of these folks are working as Devs at EA?

[ajns]

Re: The producers are blaming boxing for this game failure

Adam, good points. I see your concern and unfortunately I think it's already taking place. I still say too that what has happened with boxing is people are seeing images of its brutality on display with retired fighters. It is not a glamorous after-sport. In the US, boxing is not a sport that parents sit their kids down and say, "Johnny, how about boxing?" The same with MMA though.

But MMA is growing strong. It's a huge part of pop culture these days. Boxing simply isn't. Not in the US. Unfortunately, I don't see boxing changing as an organization, and I don't even think that would help too much in its appeal to various sports fans. I think it suffers from sort of what NASCAR suffers from. And that is many see it as boring. They want quick bursts of action like MMA can give. More often than not, boxing goes the distance and that large demographic doesn't want that. They want 3 rounds of fast paced action.

I gotta disagree with the "after-sport" argument (not that it isn't a bad after-sport, but that it contributes to people turning away from boxing.). We've known about post-concussive syndrome for years and there has been a focus on concussions in the NFL for the last 5years or so along with an acknowledgement that retired NFL players have a high incidence of CTE which has lead to the strange behavior and early deaths of at least a dozen NFL players. Plus look at players like Conrad Dobler, who hasn't had issues with his brain (Although some may say he already did when he played), but can barely walk after the double digit surgeries he's had to have on his back and legs to repair the damage of being an NFL lineman (and this goes back to the 60s for degenerative stuff and probably the early 70s for CTE.)Take it out of the sport realm and into pop culture and you need go no further than Any Given Sunday to see that the average person was exposed to the truth behind the scenes in many NFL locker rooms. Yet the NFL is arguably the most popular sport in the world (pre-lockout), definitely in the US.

Now maybe that is a better argument for why it makes no logical sense for people to believe that way than an argument that it can't be that way (since the logic in the average American's head is about the same as the number of fights Mayweather has had in the last 8 months). But sheesh, how many times must you be slapped in the face with the evidence that football can be just as devastating as boxing. Or maybe it is the intention behind the sport, or at least the supposed intention. Perhaps the masses have an easier time stomaching a sport that ostensibly rewards running, throwing, catching, and form tackling regardless of what the players say (James Harrison), than they do stomaching a sport where THE avowed goal is to concuss your opponent.

[ManiacMatt1782]

Re: The producers are blaming boxing for this game failure

My "defending" my sport preference (boxing) isn't rooted in needing to be better or best. It is rooted in a real fear that sports like MMA are PERMANENTLY taking fans from boxing that may weaken it to the point of being the USFL. Maybe I am crazy and it's all cyclical, but I think there are some real warning signs that boxing has failed to heed over the last 10 years.

This has been an ongoing problem for at least a decade, even before there was a noticeable drop in popular interest or an organized MMA. It stems from the lack of a national/international governing body and little or no standardization of the training for referees and judges, which causes legitimacy problems. Now, the WWE survived for years when people knew it was fake because it wasn't looked at as sport. It was entertainment (hence the name change after much legal wrangling). Boxing isn't trying to be entertainment alone...YET (God forbid EVER). And so it is caught in between two worlds, sort of like a jack of all trades, master of none.
I can tell you from experience that it is better to do one thing better than anyone else in the world that try to do hundreds of things so-so.

The biggest problem facing the sport now as far as getting things fixed and putting things back on the right track is money. The same dozen or so promoters do all the fights.They exert a disproportionate amount of influence over the ABC governing bodies (own them in some cases). Even though there may be less money as a whole being spent on boxing when only 12 promoters are splitting that money, it only means that they are only filthy rich, not obscenely filthy rich. Until they feel it in their pockets they will fight any talk of a single commission and standardization of judging and refereeing standards (let alone some kind of a retirement fund for guys like Meldrick Taylor and Ali). And honestly, boxing will be dead before that happens.

It is going to take 2 things to fix boxing: (1) Fans really voicing their opinion and exerting as much pressure to get the money men to listen; (2) State Athletic Commissions banding together and refusing to sanction boxers that don't meet a global standard. If you can't get them to play by the rules of the game as constituted, you move the game. Without this, boxing's legitimacy problems will get worse and worse. Guys like Mayweather don't help either. For all the hype surrounding his fights and his unbeaten record and all the money he generates for himself and the sport, he damages the sport far more when he takes YEARS off in mock retirement or in court. If you look at the best eras of boxing, you'll see that the stars (good guys or bad guys) fought...A LOT. And they fought each other regardless of the risk. No one is suggesting that everyone turn into Archie Moore (185-23-11), but you gotta fight and you have to fight recognized contenders not straw men (enter that international boxing commission).

Until those things happen, boxing's pie will continue to shrink (Again, this isn't about the megafights or the PPV extravaganzas. It's about the vast middle.). I truly fear that we are on a course that leads to boxing's ultimate demise. Unless we change that course, I don't know where boxing is in 10 years.

Finally a reasonable boxing fan that mma had almost nothing to do with boxing's decline, and the over all no-real big name fights, the lack of solid cards. the corrution have all done their fair share to diminish boxing. When has there been a good televised boxing card with more than 2 fights anyone aside from the fighters mama's gave a rats *** about seeing? You get 1 good fight maybe 2 on a boxing card, and these moron promoters want to keep fans? Boxings promoters need to take a good hard look at themselves.

[DaveDQ]

Re: The producers are blaming boxing for this game failure

I gotta disagree with the "after-sport" argument (not that it isn't a bad after-sport, but that it contributes to people turning away from boxing.). We've known about post-concussive syndrome for years and there has been a focus on concussions in the NFL for the last 5years or so along with an acknowledgement that retired NFL players have a high incidence of CTE which has lead to the strange behavior and early deaths of at least a dozen NFL players. Plus look at players like Conrad Dobler, who hasn't had issues with his brain (Although some may say he already did when he played), but can barely walk after the double digit surgeries he's had to have on his back and legs to repair the damage of being an NFL lineman (and this goes back to the 60s for degenerative stuff and probably the early 70s for CTE.)Take it out of the sport realm and into pop culture and you need go no further than Any Given Sunday to see that the average person was exposed to the truth behind the scenes in many NFL locker rooms. Yet the NFL is arguably the most popular sport in the world (pre-lockout), definitely in the US.

Now maybe that is a better argument for why it makes no logical sense for people to believe that way than an argument that it can't be that way (since the logic in the average American's head is about the same as the number of fights Mayweather has had in the last 8 months). But sheesh, how many times must you be slapped in the face with the evidence that football can be just as devastating as boxing. Or maybe it is the intention behind the sport, or at least the supposed intention. Perhaps the masses have an easier time stomaching a sport that ostensibly rewards running, throwing, catching, and form tackling regardless of what the players say (James Harrison), than they do stomaching a sport where THE avowed goal is to concuss your opponent.

I think with the NFL you have things that happen within the game. They get escorted off the field and the game goes on. With boxing a guy gets knocked out and there isn't a second stringer waiting to fill in. It's very pin point and specific. I suppose with the NFL it's easier to cover up. Whereas with boxing a guy is laying there knocked out and the crowd is going nuts because that's what they wanted to see.

[SFNiner]

Re: The producers are blaming boxing for this game failure

I enjoy this game greatly when I play it (I dont play video games often). Im a fan of the old days of boxing 70s and 80s so getting fights like Tyson vs Ali or Frazier vs Evander are awesome. I just wish it had an even better lineup. I want to be able to do Mayweather vs Pacman. Its a very very very solid line up but just little things can add to it.