Boxing Off-Topic

[JayBee74]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

World Boxing Super Series Super Middleweight (168) Fighters:

Callum Smith 22-0 (17 KOs) Ring Magazine #5
George Groves 26-3 (19 KOs) Ring Magazine #3
Jamie Cox 23-0 (13 KOs)
Erik Skoglund 26-0 (12 KOs) Has never fought at 168-moves down from 175.
Juergen Braehmer 48-3 (35 KOs) Former 175 champ, has not fought at 168 in nine years.
Avni Yildirim 16-0 (10 KOs)*
Rob Brant 22-0 (15 KOs)*

The final three 168 pound slots will be announced tomorrow. EDIT: Two more were just announced one day ahead of schedule.*

World Boxing Super Series Cruiserweight (200) Fighters:

Oleksandr Usyk 12-0 (10 KOs) Ring Magazine #1, WBO titleholder
Mairis Briedis 22-0 (18 KOs) Ring Magazine #4, WBC titleholder
Murat Gassiev 24-0 (17 KOs) Ring Magazine #2, IBF titleholder
Yunier Dorticos 21-0 (20 KOs) WBA titleholder
Marco Huck 40-4 (27 KOs) Ring Magazine #7
Krzysztof Wlodarczyk 53-3 (37 KOs) Ring Magazine #10
Dmitry Kudryashov 21-1 (21 KOs) three days ago avenged his only defeat by knocking out the guy who knocked him out.
Mike Perez 22-2-1 (14 KOs)*

Krzysztof Glowacki is expected to be named the tourney's final cruiserweight entrant. EDIT: Actually Mike Perez just got in.*

Good idea for this series to incorporate the cruiserweights it's first go around.

[JayBee74]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

All very good points; excellent discussion in the posts above.

I hope we are witnessing a sea change in boxing, though, whether it's planned or promoters are just being dragged kicking-and-screaming into a new era. One of the factors that may be contributing to promoters finally looking outside the PPV model is that there are almost no sure-fire PPV draws in boxing anymore, and I think after the Pac-Mayweather fight, nothing short of a new Tyson is going to rekindle the public interest in PPV boxing cards.

As for the Showtime/HBO stranglehold on big name fights, I wonder if acquisition costs combined with cord-cutting are starting to erode the ability of those networks to keep boxing as a profitable engine on their networks (I have no evidence or data to back that hypothesis up; pure conjecture on my part). It may be a simple matter of diversification of portfolios by the major promoters.

One thing I'm 100% sure that it is NOT, though, is any long-term vision by the big-3 promoter shops to try to grow the sport and regain a foothold in the public sporting consciousness.

Although I've been fixated with fighter purses over the years (hard to believe Donny Lalonde made $5 million to defend his 175 title against Ray Leonard 29 years ago) I don't know enough about HBO and ShowTimes' motivation for carrying non-PPV fights, but they do have a lot of them every year so I assume they're bringing in subscribers.

[aholbert32]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Although I've been fixated with fighter purses over the years (hard to believe Donny Lalonde made $5 million to defend his 175 title against Ray Leonard 29 years ago) I don't know enough about HBO and ShowTimes' motivation for carrying non-PPV fights, but they do have a lot of them every year so I assume they're bringing in subscribers.

The fights do but not as much as they used to and not as many subscribers as some of their series like Game of Thrones and Homeland do. Thats why boxing budgets have been cut the last few years.

[sheredia]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

with andre ward coming off his impressive showing against kovalev and tony bellew having a nice run of victories as of late, would it be possible for a showdown between "pretty ricky conlan" against "danny wheeler"? aside from an intriguing matchup, i would have to say they could use that in their pre-fight promotion....i read that bellew is definitely interested, but it would have to be at cruiserweight.

[JayBee74]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

with andre ward coming off his impressive showing against kovalev and tony bellew having a nice run of victories as of late, would it be possible for a showdown between "pretty ricky conlan" against "danny wheeler"? aside from an intriguing matchup, i would have to say they could use that in their pre-fight promotion....i read that bellew is definitely interested, but it would have to be at cruiserweight.

Yeah, but Bellow lost to Cleverly at 175 and then got exploded out of that division by one handed Adonis Stevenson. He did hold his own with David Haye until an Achilles tendon helped him to an upset stoppage. Unless they give Ward massive dollars or he just wants to avoid some better talent at light heavyweight I don't see him going there. The "Creed" angle is unique though.

[JayBee74]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

I have to say the World Boxing Super Series is at least keeping it interesting. The top four seeds (almost*) have been announced for each of the two divisions. The number 1, 2, and 3 seeds get to pick their first round opponent with the #4 seed obviously left with no choice. Also of interest is the fact that the winner of the upcoming Chris Eubank-Arthur Abraham bout will claim the #3 seed for the 168-pound division.

Super Middleweight (168) Top 4 Seeds:

(1) George Groves 26-3 (19 KOs) Ring Magazine #3
(2) Callum Smith 22-0 (17 KOs) Ring Magazine #5
(3) Arthur Abraham* 46-5 (30 KOs) or Chris Eubank Jr* 24-1 (19 KOs)
(4) Juergen Braehmer 48-3 (35 KOs) Former 175 champ, has not fought at 168 in nine years.

Cruiserweight (200) Top 4 Seeds:

(1) Oleksandr Usyk 12-0 (10 KOs) Ring Magazine #1, WBO titleholder
(2) Murat Gassiev 24-0 (17 KOs) Ring Magazine #2, IBF titleholder
(3) Mairis Briedis 22-0 (18 KOs) Ring Magazine #4, WBC titleholder
(4) Yunier Dorticos 21-0 (20 KOs) WBA titleholder

Each division will have:

Four quarter-finals (September / October 2017)
Two semifinals (early 2018)
One final (May 2018)

[pk500]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

The long money play is what Haymon and Arum now seem to be doing. Thurman is probably one fight away from being a big enough name to challenge Floyd and that is after multiple free PBC fights. Same with Spence. I hope the world gets to see Lomo and he becomes a star with the ESPN promotional machine behind him. Same with Crawford.

My fear though is that HBO will see the Pac numbers, open up the bank again and future top level Top Rank fights will be on pay cable again.

All good points, but Haymon has few long plays left. The PBC has burned through most of its $400 million slush fund from Waddell & Reed, and Haymon still has found little to no revenue sources from the venture.

The PBC is on its death bed. I predict it will be gone by the end of 2018, at the latest.

Arum has built a sustainable business that has been around for 40-plus years. Plus he has a clear successor in place in his son-in-law, Todd deBoeuf.

[pk500]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

I hope we are witnessing a sea change in boxing, though, whether it's planned or promoters are just being dragged kicking-and-screaming into a new era. One of the factors that may be contributing to promoters finally looking outside the PPV model is that there are almost no sure-fire PPV draws in boxing anymore, and I think after the Pac-Mayweather fight, nothing short of a new Tyson is going to rekindle the public interest in PPV boxing cards.

Joshua has potential to be the next big PPV star. Heavyweight, big power, built like Apollo Creed, well spoken.

But even if Joshua breaks through, he only fights twice per year. There's no one else on the PPV horizon besides Canelo and GGG as PPV attractions.

Still, a reduction to three or four big PPV cards per year is healthy for boxing. It will force promoters to look to network and basic cable as outlets to expose their fighters.

The biggest problem these days with PPV cards remains the undercards. Not only are we being subjected to some ropey main-event matchups in PPVs, but the undercards usually are atrocious.

I remember in the 80s when Don King would package a Tyson main event and Julio Cesar Chavez fight on the co-feature or main undercard, along with a couple other strong undercard fights, on a killer PPV card. Nobody does that anymore.

Tom Loeffler tries, packaging GGG and Chocolatito on a few cards. That's a start. But Top Rank, Golden Boy and Mayweather Promotions have produced WRETCHED PPV cards in recent years.

One thing I'm 100% sure that it is NOT, though, is any long-term vision by the big-3 promoter shops to try to grow the sport and regain a foothold in the public sporting consciousness.

So true. Boxing is the most Balkanized sport on Earth. Everyone is in it for themselves, with no concern about the health or growth of the sport. Boxing lives in a dystopian, Mad Max universe unlike any other sport.

[pk500]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

with andre ward coming off his impressive showing against kovalev and tony bellew having a nice run of victories as of late, would it be possible for a showdown between "pretty ricky conlan" against "danny wheeler"? aside from an intriguing matchup, i would have to say they could use that in their pre-fight promotion....i read that bellew is definitely interested, but it would have to be at cruiserweight.

Interesting, but I'm not crazy about it.

One, Ward is far superior to Bellew. At a different level. Two, Ward is a natural super middleweight. He's not even that big at light heavy. He would be a shrimp at cruiser, with even less power than he has at 175.

[JayBee74]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Joshua has potential to be the next big PPV star. Heavyweight, big power, built like Apollo Creed, well spoken.

He will be, but probably not in the states. His fight with Klitschko generated an astonishing record-breaking 1.5 million PPV buys over in England, but remember they get the fight at £19.95 roughly equivalent to $25. I'm not even sure if a fight with Wilder would turn into an HBO or ShowTime PPV bout. His future is with Sky Sports.

[JayBee74]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Interesting, but I'm not crazy about it.

One, Ward is far superior to Bellew. At a different level. Two, Ward is a natural super middleweight. He's not even that big at light heavy. He would be a shrimp at cruiser, with even less power than he has at 175.

I'm not crazy about the matchup either. Even at 200, I think Ward would "cruise" against Bellow.

[aholbert32]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

He will be, but probably not in the states. His fight with Klitschko generated an astonishing record-breaking 1.5 million PPV buys over in England, but remember they get the fight at £19.95 roughly equivalent to $25. I'm not even sure if a fight with Wilder would turn into an HBO or ShowTime PPV bout. His future is with Sky Sports.

I think a Wilder fight would do over 700k in the US maybe more. Wilder's PBC ratings have been pretty good given that he fought nobodies on those cards. They are both signed to Showtime and they would promote the hell out of it. People are hungry for a young HW championship fight and I think Joshua's name will continue to grow if beats Wladamir again.

[JayBee74]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

I think a Wilder fight would do over 700k in the US maybe more. Wilder's PBC ratings have been pretty good given that he fought nobodies on those cards. They are both signed to Showtime and they would promote the hell out of it. People are hungry for a young HW championship fight and I think Joshua's name will continue to grow if beats Wladamir again.

Based on the UK PPV and regular German TV anteing up $4 million to show the Wlad fight I'd say Joshua is in full bloom overseas. Will that translate to USA interest? Some maybe, but nothing like he'll get overseas. Does he really need American approval? He and Wlad pulled in $20 million apiece for their classic bout.

I don't know about Joshua-Wilder bringing in 700K stateside buys but the latter will be cashing in his biggest check if that fight comes to fruition.

[pk500]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

He will be, but probably not in the states. His fight with Klitschko generated an astonishing record-breaking 1.5 million PPV buys over in England, but remember they get the fight at £19.95 roughly equivalent to $25. I'm not even sure if a fight with Wilder would turn into an HBO or ShowTime PPV bout. His future is with Sky Sports.

Unless, and it's a BIG unless, a viable American heavyweight contender arises. That's what helped Lennox Lewis cross over and become popular in the States.

And please don't offer Deontay Wilder as a credible contender. He's a joke, a one-trick pony. About 1.5 steps above Charles Martin as a legitimate belt holder at heavyweight.

[JayBee74]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Unless, and it's a BIG unless, a viable American heavyweight contender arises. That's what helped Lennox Lewis cross over and become popular in the States.

And please don't offer Deontay Wilder as a credible contender. He's a joke, a one-trick pony. About 1.5 steps above Charles Martin as a legitimate belt holder at heavyweight.

It's not so much what we think of Wilder's skill set, but more of what he represents as a boxing draw. Protected or not, unchallenged, or overrated, he's still 38-0 with 37 KOs and possesser of a big right hand. I'm not a fan of Wilder either but he's not a credible contender? Who has the talent to beat him in the heavyweight division besides Joshua, Ortiz, or Wlad? It's almost a moot point. He will not fight Ortiz and Wlad is only good for a mega money rematch with Joshua. So he waits for Anthony.

And Lennox did have some PPV success but a lot it was in two fights with Holyfield and one against a washed up Tyson, both huge PPV draws.