Boxing Off-Topic

[JayBee74]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

berto describing floyd. I thought it was interesting, worth a look.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQjvXRcnPvw

I wouldn’t be that talkative after getting by a$$ handed to me.

[allBthere]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

I wouldn’t be that talkative after getting by a$$ handed to me.

but it touches on why so many are unsatisfied watching many of his fights. To me the issue I have with Floyd in the ring is that in some fights, it goes against the spirit of boxing which is essentially a fight with the purposes of doing more damage than your opponents. He's not the only one, but he's the most high-profile one. It's the difference between 'winning on points' as the result of being in a fight vs winning on points deliberately and strategizing FOR that. It's like in the Pac fight you could hear Roger saying 'you're fighting like you're scared out there'.

That isn't to be confused with wanting him to go out with his hands down and let people hit him, it's this going undefeated at all costs - i just don't respect it and hope that era in boxing is over. nobody cares that Ali, SRR, Duran etc lost fights - not at all, it makes them better in a way. Minimizing risk at all costs isn't really what fighting is all about imo. Berto here I think does a good job of explaining what it's like to 'fight' floyd and I appreciate that insight - doesn't matter than he was outclassed, it highlights the mass-frustration with money may.

[JayBee74]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Minimizing risk at all costs isn't really what fighting is all about imo. Berto here I think does a good job of explaining what it's like to 'fight' floyd and I appreciate that insight - doesn't matter than he was outclassed, it highlights the mass-frustration with money may.

Floyd is not one of my favorite fighters either-in fact years and YEARS ago in this forum I was criticized for underrating his all-time rating which I would adjust higher today. Fact is he was just too good defensively which made most of his fights pretty boring. I still think he never fought a welterweight/supermiddleweight at Leonard or Hearn's caliber and would have lost 9 times out of 10 to either one of them.

Berto was in a mood for reflection but I just see him as another guy who couldn't touch Money.

[KG]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

I like the candid and honest response from Berto. Also loved the low key jab he took at Pauli and his “slapping” [emoji23]. Love Pauli as a commentator but man I’m surprised he made it to that level with those hands.

Admittedly, I am a huge Floyd fan and in general counter puncher. The older I get the more I appreciate the science behind defending and subtle nuances experienced fighters like that bring to the table. To me, it epitomizes those who are truly “masters of their craft”. I’m a believer that you do whatever you can to win (legally). If I’m set up to counter and dance a little it’s on my opponent to crack my defense and make me alter my gameplan.

Floyd to me is funny. Reckless and flamboyant as hell outside the ring, cautious and meticulous inside the ring. The ultimate salesman.

I personally think Floyd beats Duran 10x out of 10. You look at the fighters that gave him trouble (not counting when he was old af), they’re mostly boxers. Even the Hagler fight, Marvin went outside his normal style and outboxed him.

I think Sugar Ray and Floyd would have been a technicians dream. Impeccable footwork and hand speed. I’d give the edge to Sugar Ray since he had more power and was famous for stealing rounds, not too mention a little bigger.

Hopefully we can recreate these fights in the new ESBC game ha.


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[allBthere]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

I like the candid and honest response from Berto. Also loved the low key jab he took at Pauli and his “slapping” [emoji23]. Love Pauli as a commentator but man I’m surprised he made it to that level with those hands.

Admittedly, I am a huge Floyd fan and in general counter puncher. The older I get the more I appreciate the science behind defending and subtle nuances experienced fighters like that bring to the table. To me, it epitomizes those who are truly “masters of their craft”. I’m a believer that you do whatever you can to win (legally). If I’m set up to counter and dance a little it’s on my opponent to crack my defense and make me alter my gameplan.

Floyd to me is funny. Reckless and flamboyant as hell outside the ring, cautious and meticulous inside the ring. The ultimate salesman.

I personally think Floyd beats Duran 10x out of 10. You look at the fighters that gave him trouble (not counting when he was old af), they’re mostly boxers. Even the Hagler fight, Marvin went outside his normal style and outboxed him.

I think Sugar Ray and Floyd would have been a technicians dream. Impeccable footwork and hand speed. I’d give the edge to Sugar Ray since he had more power and was famous for stealing rounds, not too mention a little bigger.

Hopefully we can recreate these fights in the new ESBC game ha.


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SRL you mean right? yeah, SRR is my #1 all-time, but SRL is an all-time great too and doesn't get enough credit as far as being one of the best of all time. HE Could be frustrating as hell too.

I hear you doing whatever you can do to win and so I take some issue with the fighter and his tactics, but also the rules/judges/referee's too. Part of it too is our desire to 'pick a winner' even if no one REALLY won - that applies to individual rounds too. If one boxer lands 1 shot and the other one 0, to me the guy who landed 1 might not deserve that round. I'd like to see that 10-10 or even 9-9 would be even better. Imagine how many fights would be different if REF's penalized people for holding! Some of Klitzchko's fights might have been different! How about all the bizarre decisions over the years? At least one of Marciano's could have gone the other way ... so the undefeated thing is just trash imo.

Boxing has evolved as all sports do and the rules need to as well imo - We're not paying to see someone 'steal rounds' ... I want to know who the better fighter is - it's the hurt business! If we take the Mayweather/Pac fight for example. It was lousy. That's on Pac too, not just Floyd, but this is an example where nobody won - was either guy damaged or seem like they lost an actual 'fight'? not really, which goes back to the Berto comments like he got finished with a sparring session. I also want to say that Floyd isn't ALWAYS like that either, of course he's been in some good ones and has show a fighter mentality too. One thought I've had is this: what if Floyd WASN'T undefeated? How much better would some of his fights been? I think a lot because perhaps it would be more about BEATING the opponents than preserving the 0...? we'll never know... but I HATE all the undefeated BS... none of history's best are being recognized as such because they never lost. Media is def to blame too lol, lots of blame to go around /rant

[Money99]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

I've grown tired of Bivol. He puts in just enough work to get the decision win.
I think his power is overrated. Hasn't stopped anyone in over 3 years.
I can understand why he's avoiding Beterbiev now as I believe, and he likely knows, he gets wrecked. I also believe Alvarez beats him - and easily.

I predict he's going to continue to cherry-pick opponents he can beat in 12 rounds and make more excuses as to why he can't fight Beterbiev.

[Money99]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Watched the Tommy Morrison 30-for-30. What a great documentary. And very sad.
It was shocking to see how quickly he aged once he stopped taking his AIDs medicine.
Dude was in prison for possession and taking his meds every day. He looked like a million bucks when he got out.
But then he stopped taking them and the downward spiral began.

Watching his old fights, he had a lot of talent. His left hook was amazing but he also had very good hand-speed and would put together some amazing combinations.
But his partying and lack of commitment to the sport eventually proved to be his downfall - which seems to be a common theme in the boxing world.

[JayBee74]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Gotta see that. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ray Mercer, who had ended Tommy's early undefeated status with a brutal KO, had a more humble take on his victory.

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[Money99]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Had the fight even after 8.
Saunders looked good and was coming on.
But Alvarez landed that big shot and I think he may have cracked his orbital bone.

When you're a fighter like Saunders, no power, slick, you have to be prepared to get on your bike, throw a high volume of punches and get in and out frequently.
Otherwise you have no shot.
Alvarez's body work will take your legs and he will eventually stalk you and hurt you.

The only way he loses is if he runs into another power puncher with an iron jaw.

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[Money99]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

I believe the resbulls and vodka may have clouded my judgement a bit last night.
Wasnt 4-4 after 8, but I do believe Saunders won 3 rounds and was looking good in rounds 6 and 7.
But without power to keep Alvarez honest, it was only a matter of time.

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[allBthere]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

I believe the resbulls and vodka may have clouded my judgement a bit last night.
Wasnt 4-4 after 8, but I do believe Saunders won 3 rounds and was looking good in rounds 6 and 7.
But without power to keep Alvarez honest, it was only a matter of time.

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I had Alvarez ahead 4-3 or even 5-2. I couldn't give BJS more rounds because even though he had his spots they were erased by Canelo's brutal shots - AND if you're going to win on points you better be a hell of a lot more active than BJS. When you look at the final punch stats from the broadcast, not only did BJS not throw enough to win that type of way, but the landed was lower than Alvarez too, so he didn't appear busier or more effective so that's why I couldn't give him the rounds and Alvarez was doing much more damage. The whole fight felt like you were just waiting for the end to come other than maybe the first round and one other round. It was never in doubt and that eye damage was just disgusting imo. He caved in his face

[Money99]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Is there anyone left at 168 that can actually give Alvarez a fight?
He'll likely have to move up to 175 to have a legit challenge. And even then, it's likely just Beterbiev - who's 36 and likes to fight once a year.

Some interesting discussions on Twitter considering what fighters, historically, who would have given Canelo a run at 168.
There are a bevy of them;
Ward, Jones JR, Calzaghe, Toney...
Heck, Michael Spinks likely would have fought at 168 considering he wouldn't have had to weigh-in same day in his era.
All of the above beats Alvarez IMO.

[allBthere]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

this is the best:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4OJnyBcFO8

Canelo talking English for like 5min!!! he's so funny the way he gives and receives insults!

I love how Andrade is like "don't disrespect me like that" it's like, dude, you just crashed the champion's press conference and made it about you. lol

[Money99]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

this is the best:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4OJnyBcFO8

Canelo talking English for like 5min!!! he's so funny the way he gives and receives insults!

I love how Andrade is like "don't disrespect me like that" it's like, dude, you just crashed the champion's press conference and made it about you. lol

LOL, that was great.
And Alvarez is right. Who has he fought?
Why are you calling out the 168 champ when you haven't fought any of the big names at your own weight? Beat a Munguia, GGG or a Derevyanchenko first. Then move up to 168 and beat a top 5 guy.

But I don't blame Andrade. He's 33 and would like a big payday before he calls it a career.

[edaddy]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Had the fight even after 8.
Saunders looked good and was coming on.
But Alvarez landed that big shot and I think he may have cracked his orbital bone.

When you're a fighter like Saunders, no power, slick, you have to be prepared to get on your bike, throw a high volume of punches and get in and out frequently.
Otherwise you have no shot.
Alvarez's body work will take your legs and he will eventually stalk you and hurt you.

The only way he loses is if he runs into another power puncher with an iron jaw.

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That's why I would love to see Canelo vs Plant or Charlo. Both have the hand speed and pop that can bother Canelo. I think Canelo needs to fight plant in October have a trilogy with GGG May 5th that will actually be a easy fight for him and cap it off with a Berlanga fight down the road...Trust me that will be a mega fight in 2022