Boxing Off-Topic

[JayBee74]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

so, having said all of that, why would CBS offer Haymon money to put the same brand of boxing on their network (premier boxing champions)? In other words, how does it makes sense for Haymon to pay 20million on the one hand to one network, and another network offer to buy it? It's like me paying you to eat my cooking, only to have another OS member, walk up, see you being paid to eat my food and then offer me money for the same meal. Know what I mean?

LOL, Because, I didn't mean to post that. I meant that Haymon/investors paid CBS SOUTH of $20 million. My bad. This was based on an AdWeek article.

[aholbert32]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

LOL, Because, I didn't mean to post that. I meant that Haymon/investors paid CBS SOUTH of $20 million. My bad. This was based on an AdWeek article.

Thats probably because the Haymon fights on CBS arent expected to be in primetime. Afternoon time buys are significantly cheaper.

[allBthere]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Thats probably because the Haymon fights on CBS arent expected to be in primetime. Afternoon time buys are significantly cheaper.

Do you think it's reasonable to assume that he needs 4 million dollars in advertising revenue per show to break even? (4x20) If so, I don't know how that's possible in today's climate when we're talking about boxing.

My food analogy still applies in respect that if I'm an advertiser, why should I give you BIG money when I know you are PAYING for the air time? Other sports GET PAID by the networks.. somebody put their sales hats on and explain it to me! lol I just can't wrap my head around it

[aholbert32]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Do you think it's reasonable to assume that he needs 4 million dollars in advertising revenue per show to break even? (4x20) If so, I don't know how that's possible in today's climate when we're talking about boxing.

My food analogy still applies in respect that if I'm an advertiser, why should I give you BIG money when I know you are PAYING for the air time? Other sports GET PAID by the networks.. somebody put their sales hats on and explain it to me! lol I just can't wrap my head around it

I need to see another PBC show to get a feel for it. The first NBC show on PBC had virtually no outside advertising. Thats the reason you saw the May/Pac commercial 20 times during the broadcast and a ton of NBC commercials. NBC doesnt help Haymon sell ad time because its doesnt get any of the ad revenue for PBC. One thing I've learned in my 10 years in the TV industry is you need a good ad sales team to sell advertising.

The Spike show had a alot more outside advertising but I have a feeling alot of that was because Spike actively sells ad time for their Friday Night Lights Out block (Bellator, PBC and Glory) and it had nothing to do with PBC.

I think he needs more than 4 million to break even though. 1) The NBCSN shows will generate significantly less ad revenue than the NBC shows will. 2) For the first PBC show, Haymon paid almost 6 million in payouts alone. Thats 7 million (6 plus 1 mill for the timebuy) before we get into production costs, travel and accommodations costs and paying for the venue. Also, its reported that he made pretty much zero money from the gate and most of the fans there were comped.

With that said, Haymon is looking at the long game and hoping to turn this into a money earner once these time buy deals expire. If the ratings remain solid, I wouldnt be surprised to see NBC pay a license for exclusive PBC fights.

[JayBee74]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Do you think it's reasonable to assume that he needs 4 million dollars in advertising revenue per show to break even? (4x20) If so, I don't know how that's possible in today's climate when we're talking about boxing.

My food analogy still applies in respect that if I'm an advertiser, why should I give you BIG money when I know you are PAYING for the air time? Other sports GET PAID by the networks.. somebody put their sales hats on and explain it to me! lol I just can't wrap my head around it

Haymon needs more than $4 million, even if you account for his high end manager percentage of 15% (i think). The purses were very high for the six fighters involved excluding Reyes, who fought Abner Mares:

Thurman $1.5 million, Broner $1.25 million, Guerrero $1.225 million, Mares $500K, Molina $450K, Reyes $20K. That's almost $5 million in purses.

If I'm an advertiser and I'm anticipating a lot eyes on the TV, would I care about who's paying for airtime?

[aholbert32]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Do you think it's reasonable to assume that he needs 4 million dollars in advertising revenue per show to break even? (4x20) If so, I don't know how that's possible in today's climate when we're talking about boxing.

My food analogy still applies in respect that if I'm an advertiser, why should I give you BIG money when I know you are PAYING for the air time? Other sports GET PAID by the networks.. somebody put their sales hats on and explain it to me! lol I just can't wrap my head around it

Because millions of people are watching the fights. I could care less that its a timebuy if you are getting millions of people to watch your timebuy.

[aholbert32]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Haymon needs more than $4 million, even if you account for his high end manager percentage of 15% (i think). The purses were very high for the six fighters involved excluding Reyes, who fought Abner Mares:

Thurman $1.5 million, Broner $1.25 million, Guerrero $1.225 million, Mares $500K, Molina $450K, Reyes $20K. That's almost $5 million in purses.

If I'm an advertiser and I'm anticipating a lot eyes on the TV, would I care about who's paying for airtime?

LOL. Jaybee made the same point as me using significantly less words.

[allBthere]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Because millions of people are watching the fights. I could care less that its a timebuy if you are getting millions of people to watch your timebuy.

I get that, but how can you prove that you will have millions of viewers? It was an unknown commodity at the time right?

Are ratings numbers out for the NBC broadcast yet ... I don't know.

I'm just saying that, normally no sports like that are time buys - at least that I know of... take the Australian open of tennis - would that be a time buy paid for by the tour?

[allBthere]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

I need to see another PBC show to get a feel for it. The first NBC show on PBC had virtually no outside advertising. Thats the reason you saw the May/Pac commercial 20 times during the broadcast and a ton of NBC commercials. NBC doesnt help Haymon sell ad time because its doesnt get any of the ad revenue for PBC. One thing I've learned in my 10 years in the TV industry is you need a good ad sales team to sell advertising.

The Spike show had a alot more outside advertising but I have a feeling alot of that was because Spike actively sells ad time for their Friday Night Lights Out block (Bellator, PBC and Glory) and it had nothing to do with PBC.

I think he needs more than 4 million to break even though. 1) The NBCSN shows will generate significantly less ad revenue than the NBC shows will. 2) For the first PBC show, Haymon paid almost 6 million in payouts alone. Thats 7 million (6 plus 1 mill for the timebuy) before we get into production costs, travel and accommodations costs and paying for the venue. Also, its reported that he made pretty much zero money from the gate and most of the fans there were comped.

With that said, Haymon is looking at the long game and hoping to turn this into a money earner once these time buy deals expire. If the ratings remain solid, I wouldnt be surprised to see NBC pay a license for exclusive PBC fights.

This seems like the only way. Your first point of a good sales team is probably the most vital - just dipping my toe in it (and this is something I'm not built for nor want to do) I found it to be daunting at best.

The long game is the only sense I can make of it too. Advertisers and networks are normally slow to react and need that proof first that it has good ratings and is something they want to get involved in.

It is a HUGE financial investment and risk though as I understand it now. And thanks to both of you for those numbers of the purses etc... no matter how you slice it, that's a lot of dough. And in the future if it's a successful venture, I don't know how much advertiser will max out at, but I doubt it would be a huge big profit at any time relatively speaking once you factor all the costs in and losses over time etc.

It's very interesting to me and hopefully more numbers become available as this thing continues

[JayBee74]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Heads up- the Adonis Stevenson-Sakio Bika bout and undercard starts at 3 PM EST/2 PM CST on CBS. I didn't realize that ruthless puncher Artur Beterbiev was on the undercard. This could be a very good day of boxing. Beterbiev destroyed Tavoris Cloud in his sixth pro fight. He takes on a solid, but hand picked Gabriel Campillo.

[aholbert32]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

I get that, but how can you prove that you will have millions of viewers? It was an unknown commodity at the time right?

Are ratings numbers out for the NBC broadcast yet ... I don't know.

I'm just saying that, normally no sports like that are time buys - at least that I know of... take the Australian open of tennis - would that be a time buy paid for by the tour?

The ratings for the NBC fight have been out for a few weeks:

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2015/3/9/8176019/pbc-boxing-on-nbc-ratings-premier-boxing-champions-al-haymon-ufc-ratings-boxing-mma-news

3.4 million and a 1.08 in the demo is great for sports on a Saturday night.

No the Australian Open is licensed in the US. ESPN pays a license to air that exclusively but pays less than it does for the French, US and Wimbledon.

Timebuys arent that rare. Bellator was a time buy for MTV2 a few years back. The World Series of Fighting was a time buy for NBCSN its first year. Now both promotions are licensed because they did decent ratings for the networks.

[JayBee74]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

I like Stevenson and Kovalez, but I don't think Adonis can win that matchup. He'd have his hands full with Beterbiev. Yeah, you can beat a lot of guys with a probing right jab and a cannon left cross, but with some you need more.

[allBthere]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

Heads up- the Adonis Stevenson-Sakio Bika bout and undercard starts at 3 PM EST/2 PM CST on CBS. I didn't realize that ruthless puncher Artur Beterbiev was on the undercard. This could be a very good day of boxing. Beterbiev destroyed Tavoris Cloud in his sixth pro fight. He takes on a solid, but hand picked Gabriel Campillo.

I PVR'd it, and even though I 'knew' it was on, when the day came I didn't and was glad I recorded it (haven't watched yet). I think nobody expects quality sports to be on saturday afternoons for the most part because especially on the east coast we're so trained for 7-7:30pm start times, maybe later for combat sports that it didn't even occur to me that it was on because I was out getting stuff done.

Just a guess, but I think that will severely affect the ratings potential because you're missing out on people that intended to see it but didn't because of the above.

[allBthere]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

The ratings for the NBC fight have been out for a few weeks:

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2015/3/9/8176019/pbc-boxing-on-nbc-ratings-premier-boxing-champions-al-haymon-ufc-ratings-boxing-mma-news

3.4 million and a 1.08 in the demo is great for sports on a Saturday night.

No the Australian Open is licensed in the US. ESPN pays a license to air that exclusively but pays less than it does for the French, US and Wimbledon.

Timebuys arent that rare. Bellator was a time buy for MTV2 a few years back. The World Series of Fighting was a time buy for NBCSN its first year. Now both promotions are licensed because they did decent ratings for the networks.

The reason I brought up the Australian open was because I think it was Jaybee mentioned its ratings were 390k for women and 550k (or close to those) for the men. So from my point of view that means the executives think tennis is a 'relevant' and 'established' product that sells and boxing is not (and they may or may not be right, I'm just saying it's a pro sport that doesn't do huge numbers on those type of events yet it's sponsored - and I realize it also leads to huge events like Wimbledon and the US open).

For my purposes I try to use tennis as a barometer when pitching for bigger coverage or when the promoter does that I try to arm him with that info as well.

3.4 million is AMAZING - I can't believe that many people tuned in that's great for them. IF I could convince networks in Canada that I'd get 340k viewers I think they'd go for it (but I can't). They are so shut off when it comes to boxing they keep saying it's 'dead' even though we have nice prospects here and worldwide and in the USA it's thriving and has been for the past few years imo.

My november show had the WBA interim cruiserweight title - the story writes itself with a humble guy who owns multiple businesses from the toronto area going for it - yet NO bigger network even aired highlights and it was a 11th round KO (loss).

This is why I'm so interested because I think if the shows were on a large network and had some promotional support it would do well - but I can't prove it and no one wants to listen.

I really hope PBC keeps having ratings success and the big wigs up here take notice.

Excited to watch the Bika Stevenson fight later tonight or tomorrow too.

[Money99]

Re: Boxing Off-Topic

I like Stevenson and Kovalez, but I don't think Adonis can win that matchup. He'd have his hands full with Beterbiev. Yeah, you can beat a lot of guys with a probing right jab and a cannon left cross, but with some you need more.

I think Stevenson gets beat by both guys.
After such an incredible 2013, he's been very mortal since. Bika looked noticeably smaller than him. I don't know what they weighed when they stepped in the ring, but if I had to guess, I'd bet Stevenson was at least 15 lbs heavier.
I know Bika's never been stopped, but considering how he blew threw guys in '13, I would have expected him to stop a blown up Super Middle.

What's interesting is that the WBC is going against the grain and forcing Adonis to negotiate with Kovalev.
I don't know what the WBC's end-game is here (I can't fathom they're actually doing this for the good of the sport or their fans), but in any event, I'm glad they're forcing this fight.

Right now, after seeing how both fighters have progressed over the past 12-14 months, I'd say Kovalev destroys Stevenson in less than 5.

P.S. Have I mentioned how awesome it is that prime time boxing is back??
Garcia-Peterson, Quinlen-Lee, ... thank-you Al Haymon!!!