Most Overhyped Boxer you can think of...

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  • Freeze
    Rookie
    • Jul 2003
    • 143

    #31
    Re: Most Overhyped Boxer you can think of...

    Originally posted by fistofrage
    He'll also go down as a clown that didn't know when to hang it up....Like the pitcher that just won't retire and gets shelled game after game(Steve Carlton) or the football player that just won't retire and switches teams at the end(Tony Dorsett, Franco Harris)...He would be much better off letting go of his boxing career at this point. If he gets KO'd again, people are going to think he's a joke....he'll go the way of Evander Holyfield.
    Do people think Ali was a joke? George Foreman? Larry Holmes?

    Get a clue man.

    Comment

    • fistofrage
      Hall Of Fame
      • Aug 2002
      • 13682

      #32
      Re: Most Overhyped Boxer you can think of...

      Originally posted by Freeze
      Do people think Ali was a joke? George Foreman? Larry Holmes?

      Get a clue man.
      Ali, no. Foreman, people questioned why he was fighting at his age. Holmes, people generally regard he held on too long, but not a joke.

      HOWEVER, none of the 3 boxers you listed got KO'd back to back. You're mentioning RJJ in the same league as Ali??? You get a clue man.
      Chalepa Ta Kala.....

      Comment

      • Yosemite Dan

        #33
        Re: Most Overhyped Boxer you can think of...

        Besides Marciano and Hagler, any other boxer I can think of held on too long and got embarrased near the end. Jones was a victim of not having any great rivals but he was a great boxer in the truest sense of the word. You can't deny his accomplishments. At least the guys he lost to weren't tomato cans.

        I don't think his skills have eroded that much, he just seemed to lose interest once he beat Ruiz.

        Comment

        • fistofrage
          Hall Of Fame
          • Aug 2002
          • 13682

          #34
          Re: Most Overhyped Boxer you can think of...

          Originally posted by Yosemite Dan
          Besides Marciano and Hagler, any other boxer I can think of held on too long and got embarrased near the end. Jones was a victim of not having any great rivals but he was a great boxer in the truest sense of the word. You can't deny his accomplishments. At least the guys he lost to weren't tomato cans.

          I don't think his skills have eroded that much, he just seemed to lose interest once he beat Ruiz.
          Yosemite, you posted this in another thread...

          "To me I define a great fighter by someone who beat at least another great fighter in his career and Tyson never did that so I consider him just very good who could of been great if he was a smarter fighter. Kinda like Foreman in the 70's who got schooled by Ali because he was much smarter. The mental part of boxing is so underrated and separates the good from the great IMO."

          Losing interest? Isn't that part of the mental game....So by your other statement, Jones is a good boxer and not a great one...I agree, he's a good boxer, but not a great one. But I won't discount what he accomplished. He won in every weight class but he has looked like garbage as of late and I hope he doesn't step in the ring again.
          Last edited by fistofrage; 05-05-2005, 09:34 AM.
          Chalepa Ta Kala.....

          Comment

          • EWRMETS
            All Star
            • Jul 2002
            • 7491

            #35
            Re: Most Overhyped Boxer you can think of...

            Yeah I'd say Tyson too. This guy had all the tools, but never learned how to box, and quickly became a joke. Anybody who thinks he is one of the best heavyweights just because he beat a bunch of bums is drinking Don King's kool-aid.

            Comment

            • grunt
              Banned
              • Jul 2002
              • 9527

              #36
              Re: Most Overhyped Boxer you can think of...

              Originally posted by EWRMETS
              Yeah I'd say Tyson too. This guy had all the tools, but never learned how to box, and quickly became a joke. Anybody who thinks he is one of the best heavyweights just because he beat a bunch of bums is drinking Don King's kool-aid.
              You dont know boxing. Tyson was one of the best defensive boxers in his prime. He fought a style that no one else fights now and a few can teach and fewer can perform. Wine and women got Tyson not because he lack the skills. I am willing to put 84-88 Tyson against any Heavy in the history of boxing.

              His size, speed, power/ratio has never been match in boxing, combine that with his peek a boo style made him very, very special fighter. Now his style has limitations such as not backing up and he could have been a better in fighter but when Tyson was focus he was the "baddest man alive".

              Peace

              Roy Jones overrated. How and where, He beat quality fighters in their primes (James Toney and Benard Hopkins) and he did it over 10 years.

              Comment

              • Yosemite Dan

                #37
                Re: Most Overhyped Boxer you can think of...

                Originally posted by fistofrage
                Yosemite, you posted this in another thread...

                "To me I define a great fighter by someone who beat at least another great fighter in his career and Tyson never did that so I consider him just very good who could of been great if he was a smarter fighter. Kinda like Foreman in the 70's who got schooled by Ali because he was much smarter. The mental part of boxing is so underrated and separates the good from the great IMO."

                Losing interest? Isn't that part of the mental game....So by your other statement, Jones is a good boxer and not a great one...I agree, he's a good boxer, but not a great one. But I won't discount what he accomplished. He won in every weight class but he has looked like garbage as of late and I hope he doesn't step in the ring again.
                Yeah but Jones was an elite boxer for years and was in his mid 30's when the end came and he was burnt out after bulking up to heavyweight. Tyson and Foreman were in their prime and they didn't lose because of disinterest, they lost because they weren't smart fighters and couldn't adjust during a fight when the opponent tried a different strategy. There's a difference between motivation and getting schooled by a a smarter fighter. Jones did mail it in the last 2 fights but accomplished enough during his career to be considered great and toyed with most of his opponents during his run.

                So I guess by saying the mental part of it I meant ring intelligence not lack of motivation.
                Last edited by Guest; 05-05-2005, 10:30 PM.

                Comment

                • Yosemite Dan

                  #38
                  Re: Most Overhyped Boxer you can think of...

                  Originally posted by grunt
                  You dont know boxing. Tyson was one of the best defensive boxers in his prime. He fought a style that no one else fights now and a few can teach and fewer can perform. Wine and women got Tyson not because he lack the skills. I am willing to put 84-88 Tyson against any Heavy in the history of boxing.

                  His size, speed, power/ratio has never been match in boxing, combine that with his peek a boo style made him very, very special fighter. Now his style has limitations such as not backing up and he could have been a better in fighter but when Tyson was focus he was the "baddest man alive".
                  Tyson was not a defensive boxer, the tomato cans he fought when he was champ hardly threw a punch. Yes Tyson was aggresive so they were always on the defensive but Buster Douglas and Evander showed that his defense was lacking. He had one style-attack-but was woefully exposed to counter punching or anybody with a strong jab that nullified his attacking style.

                  Remember Evander was older than Tyson when he beat him twice and he easily beat him when they fought as amatuers. Not to mention that Evander has something like 12 kids by 6 different women so I think he like to party pretty hard as well.

                  Great boxers like Holmesand Ali in their prime would of ate him alive. Although I think Frazier-Tyson would of been interesting because they had similar styles.

                  Comment

                  • gritzblitz56
                    Rookie
                    • Jul 2004
                    • 225

                    #39
                    Re: Most Overhyped Boxer you can think of...

                    I would put Tyson circa 1986 against any heavyweight. The only one that would have a chance against him would have been Ali because of his speed and ability to throw effective punches while backing up.

                    Skill wise, Tyson was maybe 50% of what he was when he got out of prison. His fights against Holyfield are not a true indication of what he was in his prime.

                    Comment

                    • mr_president
                      MVP
                      • Oct 2002
                      • 1167

                      #40
                      Re: Most Overhyped Boxer you can think of...

                      mike tyson was a very effective fighter, but to put him in the ring with some one like ali and think he'll come out victorious is absurd. it is, and has always been know that tyson had a problem with boxer/puncher, and as easy as it was for holyfield to dismantle him,(and don't give me tyson was past his prime,because he wasn't,holyfield was just as old) ali would have had a field day,not to mention the head games he would have played...those fighters(frazier,ali,holmes,marciano,louis)knew no fear, and that was one of tysons strongest allies, he had his opponent affraid of him b4 they entered the ring,the psychological battle had already been won,the rest was easy after that....as for roy jones being overrated is not taking away his accomplishments, there were fights for him to take,hopkins being one of them,so to say he lost interest is just another excuse,to say he held on to long is just another excuse, he didn't lose to younger,faster fighters,he lost to fighters that came up with him, why take on glen johnson when you have hopkins calling you out(a super mega million $ fight), james toney was back and ready to challenge him for the heavyweight title...why not take it champ??? john ruiz, you challenge john ruiz,undoubtably the worst heavyweight to ever hold the title(it was buster douglas), why not go for the real heavyweights....

                      here is a nice little article

                      Boxing: Bernard Hopkins Vs Roy Jones, JR. - Who Will Go Down as the Better Fighter?
                      By Vito Trabucco - May 3, 2005

                      When history tells the tail of these two great fighters, who will be the most celebrated? Who's your choice? Bernard Hopkins or Roy Jones, JR.?

                      It's easy to say, "Well in their primes, Jones beat him." This is true, except for that wasn't Bernard Hopkins' prime. RJJ hit his prime early like many great fighters, and then slowly dimmed. Hopkins grew better with age, never losing a step along the way.

                      Looking at their career's in whole, Jones pulled off one of the greatest feats in boxing history by going from Middleweight Champion to Heavyweight Champion. Or is it greater staying a middleweight and defending your title 20 times?

                      Hopkins never had the spotlight RJJ had. RJJ demanded the respect of the public and media, and he got it. Hopkins didn't care much of what anyone thought of him. Both men accomplishing great feats in the ring, but couldn't be more different outside of it.

                      However, Bernard Hopkins gets my vote because I have always felt he was one of the most underrated fighters of our generation. He's now finally getting his due.

                      Jones' heart seemed to never be in it over the past ten years. He was just that great to make us think it was and it caught up to him in the end. Everyone now says that Roy Jones, JR. isn't the fighter he once was, but I can also say that for Hopkins as well.

                      Hopkins became a different fighter the same time Roy was becoming one. It was the decisions he made and the decisions Roy didn't make, which separate these two in the long run.

                      B-Hop, I believe just loves the sport more. How else can a 40 year old man knock out Oscar De La Hoya? He felt comfortable in his weight and chose never to change it. He didn't feel the need to impress any of us.

                      So for now I'll call Roy Jones, JR the greatest light heavyweight and Bernard Hopkins the best middleweight of this era. Yes, they are two of the very best. I have to be honest though and say, I feel more privileged to say that I got to see a champ defend his title 20 times then to say I saw one make a rap video.

                      Comment

                      • TarHeelMan
                        Th* H*mb*rg*r P*mp
                        • Jul 2002
                        • 7853

                        #41
                        Re: Most Overhyped Boxer you can think of...

                        Good stuff, mang, very good stuff on B-Hop.

                        Comment

                        • koolbubbaice
                          MVP
                          • May 2004
                          • 2236

                          #42
                          Re: Most Overhyped Boxer you can think of...

                          Originally posted by charles167
                          Michael Grant.....Had all the tools; height, jab, good trainer and manager. Complete glass jaw.
                          Michael Grant. Shannon Briggs.. Tommy Morrison.. So many names out there..
                          Redskins Fan. The 82 Smurfs will never die. 83/88/92 NFL world champions!!

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                          • charles167
                            Banned
                            • Nov 2003
                            • 890

                            #43
                            Re: Most Overhyped Boxer you can think of...

                            Originally posted by mr_president
                            mike tyson was a very effective fighter, but to put him in the ring with some one like ali and think he'll come out victorious is absurd. it is, and has always been know that tyson had a problem with boxer/puncher, and as easy as it was for holyfield to dismantle him,(and don't give me tyson was past his prime,because he wasn't,holyfield was just as old) ali would have had a field day,not to mention the head games he would have played...those fighters(frazier,ali,holmes,marciano,louis)knew no fear, and that was one of tysons strongest allies, he had his opponent affraid of him b4 they entered the ring,the psychological battle had already been won,the rest was easy after that....as for roy jones being overrated is not taking away his accomplishments, there were fights for him to take,hopkins being one of them,so to say he lost interest is just another excuse,to say he held on to long is just another excuse, he didn't lose to younger,faster fighters,he lost to fighters that came up with him, why take on glen johnson when you have hopkins calling you out(a super mega million $ fight), james toney was back and ready to challenge him for the heavyweight title...why not take it champ??? john ruiz, you challenge john ruiz,undoubtably the worst heavyweight to ever hold the title(it was buster douglas), why not go for the real heavyweights....

                            here is a nice little article

                            Boxing: Bernard Hopkins Vs Roy Jones, JR. - Who Will Go Down as the Better Fighter?
                            By Vito Trabucco - May 3, 2005

                            When history tells the tail of these two great fighters, who will be the most celebrated? Who's your choice? Bernard Hopkins or Roy Jones, JR.?

                            It's easy to say, "Well in their primes, Jones beat him." This is true, except for that wasn't Bernard Hopkins' prime. RJJ hit his prime early like many great fighters, and then slowly dimmed. Hopkins grew better with age, never losing a step along the way.

                            Looking at their career's in whole, Jones pulled off one of the greatest feats in boxing history by going from Middleweight Champion to Heavyweight Champion. Or is it greater staying a middleweight and defending your title 20 times?

                            Hopkins never had the spotlight RJJ had. RJJ demanded the respect of the public and media, and he got it. Hopkins didn't care much of what anyone thought of him. Both men accomplishing great feats in the ring, but couldn't be more different outside of it.

                            However, Bernard Hopkins gets my vote because I have always felt he was one of the most underrated fighters of our generation. He's now finally getting his due.

                            Jones' heart seemed to never be in it over the past ten years. He was just that great to make us think it was and it caught up to him in the end. Everyone now says that Roy Jones, JR. isn't the fighter he once was, but I can also say that for Hopkins as well.

                            Hopkins became a different fighter the same time Roy was becoming one. It was the decisions he made and the decisions Roy didn't make, which separate these two in the long run.

                            B-Hop, I believe just loves the sport more. How else can a 40 year old man knock out Oscar De La Hoya? He felt comfortable in his weight and chose never to change it. He didn't feel the need to impress any of us.

                            So for now I'll call Roy Jones, JR the greatest light heavyweight and Bernard Hopkins the best middleweight of this era. Yes, they are two of the very best. I have to be honest though and say, I feel more privileged to say that I got to see a champ defend his title 20 times then to say I saw one make a rap video.
                            Good read...Unfortunately I have to disagree. See one thing you can not take away from a person is their record. Jones vs Hopkins = 1 Win for Jones, and one Loss for Hopkins. Not matter how we argue or try and defend our points, this issue was settled in the ring. They fought, Hopkins lost. Not saying he is any less of a fight, but they fought and Jones won...

                            Comment

                            • grunt
                              Banned
                              • Jul 2002
                              • 9527

                              #44
                              Re: Most Overhyped Boxer you can think of...

                              Originally posted by Yosemite Dan
                              Tyson was not a defensive boxer, the tomato cans he fought when he was champ hardly threw a punch. Yes Tyson was aggresive so they were always on the defensive but Buster Douglas and Evander showed that his defense was lacking. He had one style-attack-but was woefully exposed to counter punching or anybody with a strong jab that nullified his attacking style.

                              Remember Evander was older than Tyson when he beat him twice and he easily beat him when they fought as amatuers. Not to mention that Evander has something like 12 kids by 6 different women so I think he like to party pretty hard as well.

                              Great boxers like Holmesand Ali in their prime would of ate him alive. Although I think Frazier-Tyson would of been interesting because they had similar styles.
                              Tyson was a great defensive fighter, watch his tapes. His ability to fight out of a peek a boo style and bob/weave/ slip punches was the best for the smaller heavy weights. Pinklon Thomas, Tony Tucker, Mike Spinks, Larry Holmes, etc was quality opponents.

                              Tyson style was better suited for the pro ranks than amatuers. Did you see the amatuer bouts between Tyson/Holyfield? If you have tapes, I would love to see them.

                              Frazier has a total diffrent styles than tyson. Frazier fought in a cross forearm stance while Tyson fought out of a peek a boo. Both are defensive styles but the peek a boo depends on the bob and weave (try it for 2 minutes, very hard takes tons of skills) while the cross arm stylie are more a stationary target.

                              Tyson spent 3 years in jail. That what really eroded his skills.

                              Comment

                              • koolbubbaice
                                MVP
                                • May 2004
                                • 2236

                                #45
                                Re: Most Overhyped Boxer you can think of...

                                Originally posted by grunt
                                Tyson was a great defensive fighter, watch his tapes. His ability to fight out of a peek a boo style and bob/weave/ slip punches was the best for the smaller heavy weights. Pinklon Thomas, Tony Tucker, Mike Spinks, Larry Holmes, etc was quality opponents.

                                Tyson style was better suited for the pro ranks than amatuers. Did you see the amatuer bouts between Tyson/Holyfield? If you have tapes, I would love to see them.

                                Frazier has a total diffrent styles than tyson. Frazier fought in a cross forearm stance while Tyson fought out of a peek a boo. Both are defensive styles but the peek a boo depends on the bob and weave (try it for 2 minutes, very hard takes tons of skills) while the cross arm stylie are more a stationary target.

                                Tyson spent 3 years in jail. That what really eroded his skills.
                                Tyson was a great defense fighter when he first started out.. He gave great feints & head movement.. I remember Cus called it defensive aggression (or somthing similar).. I remember seeing Tyson fight Reggie Gross early on..Gross was no slouth either.. He made an undefeated Bert cooper quit in his stool prior to the Tyson fight in 86.. Reggie threw like 8 straight punches that Tyson ducked & dodged, all while coming forward.. Then Tyson landed a left upper cut that shook reggies foundation.. After Cus & Rooney, Tyson got lazy due to yes men in his corner..

                                The peek a boo style was made famous by Floyd Patterson, another Cus protege.. Don't believe Tyson fought Evander in the Amatuers.. I know Tyson fought Lewis when both were teens though..
                                Last edited by koolbubbaice; 05-07-2005, 08:08 PM.
                                Redskins Fan. The 82 Smurfs will never die. 83/88/92 NFL world champions!!

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