Strike Frame and Damage Data

[Solid_Altair]

Re: Strike Frame and Damage Data

how does accuracy work on this game gpd is it only if the other guy uses head movement alot?

I learned today that the accuracy affects only bonus damage for catching people while they're trying sway. It has nothing to do with actually catching them.

How much frame advantage does the body kick get on hit? Cuz that thing has you hit stunned long enough for the kicker to throw another strike after the kick sometimes. I dont see anything there? Or maybe i'm looking at the wrong thing.

Unless it hits you in special circumstances, the body kick actually concedes a huge disadvantage, almost enough for you to land a free jab. Don't let its look fool you. It seems to cause a huge hit stun, but also consider that its recovery is long too. After eating one, you should normally put the pressure on your opponent. He won't even have time to slip a jab. So, starting a combo with a jab is a pretty good option, allowing to follow up with body strikes of your own.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: Strike Frame and Damage Data

1) Execution range - does it mean from 1 to 8 frames can be added or always only 8, i.e. strike execution is changing dynamically or only in 2 versions (jab 12 and 12+8)?
- From 0 to 8, but 2 by 2. There are no odd numbers for frames, because the game runs at 30fps and we're counting frames as 60 fps. So, in this case the range can be 0, 2, 4, 6 or 8.

2) Damage Range - the same question: it can be from 0.1 to 0.5 or only 0.5?
- Gradually.

3) "Stopping Power - how early in another strikes trajectory you have to land to stop it" - This number is for stopping this my strike by any other strike or BY my strike any another strike? THIS MY Strike has less number = it needs more earlier to land to stop any his strike?
- That.

4) "Recovery Hit - number of recovery frames when strike lands before another strike can begin outside of combo"
...i.e. number of MY recovery frames when MY strike lands before another MY strike can begin outside of MY combo, right?
-Yes.

5) "Recovery Miss - number of recovery frames when strike lands before another strike can begin outside of combo"
... you wanted to said "when strike missed/whiffed" right?
...i.e. number of MY recovery frames when MY strike WHIFFED before another MY strike can begin outside of MYcombo, right?
> Then Why so snall difference between mu recovery after my successful hit and my fail (whiff), whiff must to have huge recovery and opening for opponent's attack?
- Some differences are very big.

6) "Recovery Hit Defense - number of recovery frames when strike lands before you can block"
...i.e number of MY recovery frames when OPPONENT's strike lands before I can block?
- No. It's when you can block after your attack lands (block or hit). In most cases you can block during your recovery (before your full recovery, before you can strike again outside a combo).

This is what you shall pay attention to in order to figure out if a move is unsafe on block... this along with the OnBlock variable. Subtract RecoveryDefense from RecoveryHit, then subract ths number from OnBlock. This will be the window for punishment.

What you asked about is the block stun, which is not on the list. Consider it an implicit variable.

7) "Recovery Miss Defense - number of recovery frames when strike lands before you can block"
... you wanted to said "when strike missed/whiffed" right?
...i.e. number of MY recovery frames when OPPONENT's strike MISSED before i can block?
- Yes. I think he meant "miss".

8) "Recovery Hit Movement - number of recovery frames when strike lands before you can use head movement"
...i.e. number of MY recovery frames when OPPONENT's this strike LANDED before i can block?
- No. It's like RecoveryDefense, except for head movement. You don't need to wait for your full recovery in order to slip. After the basic punches you can actually slip much much sooner.

9) "Recovery Miss Movement - number of recovery frames when strike lands before you can use head movement"
...missed/whiffed not landed strike?
...i.e. number of MY recovery frames whenMY this strike MISSED before i can Head movement?
- I think he meant missed. It's how long until I can slip, after I miss.

10) Frame adv (FA) on Hit must to be positive, FA on Block muts to be negative (Frame disadvantage)...
I can not understand some termines and internal logic...
Please help, need more clearing especially in terminology.
- This general rule is outdated. Negative attacks on hit are a thing since 2008 at least (Soul Calibur IV), especially low attacks or atatcks from which you can combo. If low attacks were positive on hit, high and low mix ups would be OP once more. And if combo-friendly attacks were positive on hit you'd be able to put insane pressure on people, using incomplete combos. The two things together owuld make pressure too easy to enforce. It's time to take new references. Virtua Fighter 5 is prehistoric, by now.

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[emmdeekay]

Re: Strike Frame and Damage Data

I don't know if you could have a look at the data for the straight punches from a side sway whilst standing still inputted as soon as possible. I don't know if it's just in my imagination but they seem insanely quick.

Okay, also turns out despite reading that breakdown 3 times ,I still have no idea how stopping power works. So is it any strike (apart from the ones with 0 stopping power value) can stop any other strike if it's landed early enough in the startup animation. And the specific examples (straights vs advancing) ALWAYS stop opponents strikes. There I was thinking I had this nailed!

[WarMMA]

Re: Strike Frame and Damage Data

Unless it hits you in special circumstances, the body kick actually concedes a huge disadvantage, almost enough for you to land a free jab. Don't let its look fool you. It seems to cause a huge hit stun, but also consider that its recovery is long too. After eating one, you should normally put the pressure on your opponent. He won't even have time to slip a jab. So, starting a combo with a jab is a pretty good option, allowing to follow up with body strikes of your own.

Idk man cuz my friend using Ferguson catches me with them and they have me stunned usually where I can't throw anything and when I finally can, he can tag me with something before I can land. That's what made me think it gives a frame advantage on hit, but i'll test it out and see.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: Strike Frame and Damage Data

I don't know if you could have a look at the data for the straight punches from a side sway whilst standing still inputted as soon as possible. I don't know if it's just in my imagination but they seem insanely quick.

Okay, also turns out despite reading that breakdown 3 times ,I still have no idea how stopping power works. So is it any strike (apart from the ones with 0 stopping power value) can stop any other strike if it's landed early enough in the startup animation. And the specific examples (straights vs advancing) ALWAYS stop opponents strikes. There I was thinking I had this nailed!

Punches from from slips are a bit faster than their normal versions. It is as if the slip itself is part of the wind-up already.

That stuff is right. And how early you must land your strike during his... depends on your strike's stopping power value.

As to the straights stopping advancing people, I think that is kind of a different concept, I think. It's about stopping their forward movement... a different meaning of stopping power. I prefer to call it pushback (even though in this case it's only about forbidding forward movement for a bit).

[SUGATA]

Re: Strike Frame and Damage Data

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In VF Low strikes has very small frame advantage on hit (+1+3), more on counter hit. So it si the same as in SC.

There are still opened questions about Frame data terms and principles, so i hope GPD will answer all of them clearly... Because this is very important to understand all these terms and principles to give right feedback in the future balancing.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: Strike Frame and Damage Data

If you say so...

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Strike Frame and Damage Data

Solid Altair can you bring up jabs/straight not costing enough stamina and the idea of jabs NOT having stopping power of thrown at point blank range.

Straight punches need to be at range to truly be effective but the game rewards spammers who throw em in the pocket

[Donnie_Brasco_FR]

Re: Strike Frame and Damage Data

                Execution    Execution Range    Damage Base    Damage Range    Peak Vulnerability    Stopping Power    Recovery Hit    Recovery Miss    Recovery Hit Defense    Recovery Miss Defense    Recovery Hit Movement    Recovery Miss Movement    On Hit    On Block
Lead Straight Head    12        8        10        0.5        0.025            0.7        22        26        14            16            10            12            -6    -10
Lead Hook Head        20        8        20        0.5        0.075            0.8        26        32        18            20            10            12            -6    -10
Lead Uppercut Head    20        8        25        0.5        0.075            0.8        26        32        18            20            10            12            -6    -10
Lead Roundhouse Head    26        12        40        0.5        0.125            0.9        46        66        40            42            38            58             6    -22
Back Straight Head    16        8        20        0.5        0.05            0.9        24        28        16            18            10            12            -6    -10
Back Hook Head        22        8        25        0.5        0.075            0.8        26        32        18            20            10            12            -6    -10
Back Uppercut Head    22        8        30        0.5        0.075            0.8        26        32        18            20            10            12            -6    -10
Back Roundhouse Head    28        12        50        0.5        0.125            0.9        46        56        40            42            38            48             6    -22
Lead Straight Body    16        8        5        0.5        0.075            0        34        36        28            30            10            12            -10    -22
Lead Hook Body        20        8        10        0.5        0.075            0.2        36        38        30            32            10            12            -10    -22
Lead Uppercut Body    24        8        12.5        0.5        0.075            0.2        40        44        34            36            10            12            -10    -22
Lead Roundhouse Body    34        12        17.5        0.5        0.125            0.9        46        56        42            48            44            52            -14    -30
Back Straight Body    20        8        10        0.5        0.075            0        36        38        30            32            10            12            -10    -22
Back Hook Body        20        8        12.5        0.5        0.075            0.2        42        46        36            38            10            12            -10    -22
Back Uppercut Body    26        8        15        0.5        0.075            0.2        40        44        34            36            10            12            -10    -22
Back Roundhouse Body    36        12        20        0.5        0.125            0.9        46        76        42            48            44            52            -14    -30
Lead Roundhouse Leg    22        10        10        0.5        0.075            0.2        46        66        40            48            44            52            -6    -22
Back Roundhouse Leg    24        10        15        0.5        0.075            0.2        46        66        40            48            44            52            -6    -22

Execution - number of frames from button press to contact as a baseline
Execution range - number of frames available to add to execution time based on ratings and stamina (50/50 split)
Damage Base - amount of damage landed no matter what
Damage Range - amount of potential damage added as a percentage based on ratings and move levels (50/50 split)
Peak Vulnerability - how vulnerable you are at the most vulnerable moment of the strike
Stopping Power - how early in another strikes trajectory you have to land to stop it
Recovery Hit - number of recovery frames when strike lands before another strike can begin outside of combo
Recovery Miss - number of recovery frames when strike lands before another strike can begin outside of combo
Recovery Hit Defense - number of recovery frames when strike lands before you can block
Recovery Miss Defense - number of recovery frames when strike lands before you can block
Recovery Hit Movement - number of recovery frames when strike lands before you can use head movement
Recovery Miss Movement - number of recovery frames when strike lands before you can use head movement
On Hit - Frame advantage on hit
On Hit - Frame advantage on block

Something changed or is it the same?

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: Strike Frame and Damage Data

Something changed or is it the same?

There have been a few changes, mostly body punches.

I should publish something more complete sometime.

Been way to busy to put the time in to do that though.

[AeroZeppelin27]

Re: Strike Frame and Damage Data

I learned today that the accuracy affects only bonus damage for catching people while they're trying sway. It has nothing to do with actually catching them..

Is it just me or does this seem like a missed opportunity, Accuracy could effect sooooo much more.

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: Strike Frame and Damage Data

Is it just me or does this seem like a missed opportunity, Accuracy could effect sooooo much more.

It also affects the evasive frames in head movement vs their head movement stat.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: Strike Frame and Damage Data

It also affects the evasive frames in head movement vs their head movement stat.

That's nice!

[SUGATA]

Re: Strike Frame and Damage Data

GPD, i have a question to you based on new 1.05:

If you successfully evade a straight, you will get a window of 20 frames to land a counter strike. This is enough time to capitalize with a faster counter, but not enough time to be considered safe. So strike selection in this case will be important.
Finally, if you evade any other type of strike (uppercut, hook, etc.) you will get a window of 36 frames in which to safely land a counter strike. This is the same behavior you’ve come to expect prior to this content update. So, evading a power strike is still very safe and rewarding, however evading jabs and straights does not provide the same safety.

Slowest standard strike is
Back roundhouse kick with execution (startup) = 36 frames in good conditions

Does it means that after swaying Uppercut, Hook, etc my Swaying counter Back roundhouse kick is GUARANTEED punishment?

after successfully swaying straight - Body hook with 20 frames startup is guaranteed?

[Solid_Altair]

Re: Strike Frame and Damage Data

GPD, i have a question to you based on new 1.05:

Slowest standard strike is
Back roundhouse kick with execution (startup) = 36 frames in good conditions

Does it means that after swaying Uppercut, Hook, etc my Swaying counter Back roundhouse kick is GUARANTEED punishment?

after successfully swaying straight - Body hook with 20 frames startup is guaranteed?

That window is about "until the guy can hit you again".

It is not the punsihment window.

You also have to consider how your desired counter strike will flow from the sway. Maybe it is faster than usual. Maybe you need extra frames to recover from the sway, before you throw the strike.

I think the best punishment is usually a hook or upper. But depending on what you dodge, you may be hit, before lanfing it. So, the standard slip counter is now the slipping straight, which you can only do if you slip to the side. It allows you to counter any combo, as long as the side slip evades something.