UFC Undisputed 3: Where it succeeded and what EA UFC can take from it.

[Mossfan8480]

Re: UFC Undisputed 3: Where it succeeded and what EA UFC can take from it.

Great post, Pappy!

It really is incredible how far Undisputed progressed in 3 years compared to EA UFC. Just watching your video makes me so disappointed in what could of been had Dana and the UFC remained loyal to THQ.

[DeadHunter1911]

Re: UFC Undisputed 3: Where it succeeded and what EA UFC can take from it.

Great post, Pappy!

It really is incredible how far Undisputed progressed in 3 years compared to EA UFC. Just watching your video makes me so disappointed in what could of been had Dana and the UFC remained loyal to THQ.

THQ went out of business. Wasn't about loyalty. That being said, great post. Although, you can stop takedowns with strikes in EA UFC 3.

[SwedishTouch76]

Re: UFC Undisputed 3: Where it succeeded and what EA UFC can take from it.

I feel like the stuffed takedown animation in UD3 is much better. It's quicker. In EA it's this longer drawn out animation that seems to take forever

[Malaach]

Re: UFC Undisputed 3: Where it succeeded and what EA UFC can take from it.

I love that video about CAF/Career mode, remember watching it before. Martial Mind took them to task for this stuff a long time ago, and they obviously didn't listen to him much with this game, as CAF is once again a bare bones experience.

One day we can only hope EA will give us more tools for CAF, 2k WWE, and many RPG and MMORPG games blow EA's Customization tools out the water.

[mannyonelover]

UFC Undisputed 3: Where it succeeded and what EA UFC can take from it.

Give up ! EA won’t listen 3 games in the series and they still haven’t looked at that game for pointers ,
UFC undisputed 3 is a gem!!


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[TheGentlemanGhost]

Re: UFC Undisputed 3: Where it succeeded and what EA UFC can take from it.

I was always kind of surprised to see people claimed the ground game was near perfect in UFC 2. I don't think it's bad, but I just never liked the gauge filling and how it stalls the action imo. I always thought U3 still had the better ground game, but once again, that's going off only playing U3 offline. But I loved how smooth the ground game was and how many different positions there were. But EA really did need to focus on stand up this time around. It's great for the most part, but they just made a few head scratching decisions under the hood.

[mannyonelover]

Re: UFC Undisputed 3: Where it succeeded and what EA UFC can take from it.

I was always kind of surprised to see people claimed the ground game was near perfect in UFC 2. I don't think it's bad, but I just never liked the gauge filling and how it stalls the action imo. I always thought U3 still had the better ground game, but once again, that's going off only playing U3 offline. But I loved how smooth the ground game was and how many different positions there were. But EA really did need to focus on stand up this time around. It's great for the most part, but they just made a few head scratching decisions under the hood.

Can agree more you’re absolutely on point


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[Pappy Knuckles]

Re: UFC Undisputed 3: Where it succeeded and what EA UFC can take from it.

THQ went out of business. Wasn't about loyalty. That being said, great post. Although, you can stop takedowns with strikes in EA UFC 3.

I've stopped a lot of takedowns in EA UFC with flying knees, but I can't recall if I've ever caught someone with a regular knee straight up. That might just be my experience, though.

Me highlighting that was more of an appreciation of the options that UD3 gives you. In the video below, I drop the CPU with a punch after the failed takedown. I'm pretty sure you can't do that in EA UFC. I also love how nice the transition to the choke looks in the following scenario.

Stuffing a takedown and either staying on top, striking out of it, securing a choke, or simply just getting back to the feet, all flow very well in UD3.

BTW, the tutorials are way better in UD3 too lol.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/X--knkOkYrI" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[cal7_11]

Re: UFC Undisputed 3: Where it succeeded and what EA UFC can take from it.

I agreed UD3's clinch game way better than EA UFC. and We can't see seated against the cage and the ground position this year. Its so sad. But you guys have to know. This is a big franchise. They have a big plan for this game. 1~2 years cycle. They have a lot of things left for the next title as EA UFC4. It is their own way of doing things. We will see...

Dude it’s these sort of statements why EA get away with so much. UFC3 isn’t even out and you’re saying wait for UFC4? It’s typical EA, they hold out on features they could put in tomorrow just so they can add it in for a future release. (Which from a business POV is very smart, but f**** over the fans)

It’s embarrassing that, except for the striking, UFC 3 UD is the better game when it was released 5 years ago on a shoe string budget

[UpTehCooch]

Re: UFC Undisputed 3: Where it succeeded and what EA UFC can take from it.

EA is only good at making good graphics. Not gameplay. Look at battlefield, star wars, ect. All amazing graphics with no substance.

UFC Undisputed 3 is hands down the best MMA game of all time. EA UFC 3 may have made the striking better now, but this is MMA. The grappling is still garbage compared to Undisputed 3. I remember looking forward to have grapple wars in Undisputed 3. In EA UFC games I wanted nothing to do with it. Its just boring and terrible.

[tissues250]

Re: UFC Undisputed 3: Where it succeeded and what EA UFC can take from it.

I only hope that #1 in the double leg against the cage, with entries from ground, clinch and standup.


and hope added this takedown and then seated against the cage.


Also, I really hope that tweaked the cage wall walking like this gifs :
- First of all, changed the cage walk camera into front view.




- We need to be able to throw punches and elbows to the head and body in seated against the cage.


+ pass to guard, too.

Thank you so much!

The takedowns scenario
I'd like to talk about the takedowns scenario based on the new grapple HUD system of EA UFC2.

- If A-fighter attempt to takedown and B-fighter didn't defend it. >> A-fighter will get a takedown.
- If A-fighter attempt to takedown and B-fighter defend it by input the denial well timed. >> failed a takedown and B-fighter will get sprawl position or completely break from each other.
- If A-fighter attempt to single leg takedown and B-fighter defend it, but input the denial late. >> A-fighter failed a takedown but he still grasped an oppoents' leg and then it will be a new grappling position in that situation like bottom gif. Also, this leg grip position will be happen when someone catch a leg kick.


And there are grappling stuff to the each fighters may be followed by that situation :

A-fighter : 1) attempt to takedown again in that position or 2) can push an opponent til the cage wall like bottom gif. (needs to realistic push animation) but B-fighter have only option for 'break' on the HUD in that position. Why do we need to push an opponent til the cage wall? because we can get GA for success a takedown easily in that time. (*Cage Proximity - If you have your back up against the cage, you are at a grapple disadvantage)


B-fighter : have only option as 'break' on the HUD like in the clinch position. (possible to defend takedown anytime, hold RT + RS down) and B-fighter can throw elbows, punches in that position. Also, he can attempt to submission as Guillotine Choke like bottom gifs.


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- If A-fighter attempt to shoot a double leg or single leg where near the cage wall and B-fighter didn't defend it. >> A-fighter will success a takedown and then into the ground position as seated against the cage like this gif :


- If A-fighter attempt to shoot a double leg where near the cage wall and B-fighter defend it, but input the denial late or even though input the denial well timed. >> A-fighter failed a takedown attempt but he still grasped an oppoents' waist and then it will be a new grappling position as 'half clinch' like this gif :


And there are grappling stuff to the each fighters may be followed by that situation :

A-fighter : 1) attempt to takedown again in the 'half clinch' position or 2) attempt to transition to the clinch position freely as double under, single collar, thai clinch from the 'half clinch' position like bottom gifs :



+ also, he can throw knees on an opponents' legs in that position like this gif :


B-fighter : have only option as 'break' on the HUD like in the clinch position. (possible to defend takedown anytime, hold RT + RS down) and B-fighter can throw elbows, punches in that position. Also, he can attempt to submission as Guillotine Choke, too.


================================================== ==================================================

- If A-fighter attempt to double leg takedown in clinch against the cage and B-fighter didn't defend it, A-fighter success a takedown and then into the ground position as seated against the cage wall like this gif :


+ also, A-fighter can throw knees on an opponents' body in seated against the cage position like this gif :


- If A-fighter attempt to double leg in clinch against the cage and B-fighter defend it, but input the denial late or even though input the denial well timed. >> A-fighter failed a takedown attempt but he still grasped an oppoents' waist and then it will be a new grappling position as 'half clinch' like this gif :


And there are grappling stuff to the each fighters may be followed by that situation :

A-fighter : 1) attempt to takedown again in the 'half clinch' position or 2) attempt to transition to the clinch position freely as double under, single collar, thai clinch from the 'half clinch' position like bottom gifs. (also, he can throw knees on an opponents' legs in the 'half clinch' position)


B-fighter : have only option as 'break' on the HUD like in the clinch position. (possible to defend takedown anytime, hold RT + RS down) and B-fighter can throw elbows, punches in that position. Also, he can attempt to submission as Guillotine Choke, too.

================================================== ==================================================

Thank you so much for reading. Sorry about my poor English. I really hope they added various kinds of takedown animations and other important animations in the next title. Especially, necessary for the game : shoot a single leg, shoot a double leg, double leg against the cage, single leg against the cage, seated against the cage, half clinch, catch a leg, realistic push animation, imo.

As far as I can remember, they added this stuff by the 1.03 patch in EA UFC1. If your opponent don't do anything with block up and you throwing GnP continually, the ref is stopping the fight in that time. I think, this stuff was really great but I don't understand why the game is degenerate. because In EA UFC2, every fight are finishes being Knock-out in the ground position. In my opinion, it's really bad. So, I really hope that bring back in this stuff in EA UFC2.

I think, the tko scenario was one of the worst part in ea ufc2. it was veryyy arcade. here are ea ufc2's tko scenario.

a. if someone knock-down, (actually, it seems like knock-out. its very weird cuz nothing different animation between knock-down and knock-out. hopefully, this weird thing should be fixed on ea ufc3)

b. the recover system works automatically in that time. and gauge fill up even if you throwing GNP strike.

c. finally, he revive without block or sway or arm trap. and entered into the back-side position. why only entered into the back-side position?? its very weird thing, too.


the recover system has to go!!!



Undisputed3 have clearly shown what is great tko scenario. when someone knock-down, block and sway on the ground should be only way for escape in that moment. NOT weird recover fill up circle.



am i an only person who care about this weird thing??? please pay more attention to some unrealistic gameplay besides the striking's. Is this thing low priority??? i don't think so.

thanks for reading.

I don't know whether this is relates grappling position or not. But I think, this is very important part of mma game. So, I'd like to talk about the push animation in this time. The push animation is really unrealistic and very limited in EA UFC2. Let's see attached gif. I don't know how to explain but one step.. one step.. looks very robotic and weird.

In the clinch, both fighters only attempt to tranisition or takedown on the middle octagon, right now. It needs to be revamped.
In contrast, there is a ton of push stuff and it happens way more than only attempt to tranisition or takedown in real life.

I think, the push logic is useless in this game because once one fighter attempt to transition or takedown, the other fighter have to defend it or try to other transition in that time. We needs an efficient logic for the push stuff like Undisputed 3. I think, there are three stuff in the clinch as 1) push, 2) transition, 3) takedown. For example, once one fighter attempt to transition or takedown and other fighter attempt to push at the same time. Which one has priority? I don't know exactly. but I'm sure, we needs an efficient logic about that. Can I push my opponent til the cage wall from the middle octagon? It is close to impossible in EA UFC series. That's bad.





- Let's back to the point about the push animation. Please look at Barnett's legs. He pushed Rothwell with using both legs. The both legs would moving together when you pushing someone. It is very different from EA UFC2.




- In Undisputed 3, the push animation looked way more realistic than EA UFC series. It's looks pretty good. we need strength stat like UD3. It was perfect.



Thank you so much!

- In EA UFC2, body punche is only allow one of strikes in sprawl position. I think, it's very useless and feel limited.




- In UD3, you could throw punches to the body and head in sprawl position. It's very useful and very good.

I hope they tweak it in order for possible hit to the head and body in sprawl position like UD3.

and I think, this move is really good. it seems like stack guard or posture up from sprawl position. This move can be used to the finish the fight. hopefully, add this move to EA UFC2 or future franchise.



Thanks for reading!

These are all my own.... I wrote before. I have asked to them many times. but there's nothing changed now except they added some takedown against the cage. what was worse, the KO zoom is back, there is still NO refs stoppage animations and Finally, I realized that they won't make change these because they have their plan for this franchise. Its really sad. but Theres nothing I can do about it. adapt or leave(this is not yours) that's my conclusion.

[holyjesus]

Re: UFC Undisputed 3: Where it succeeded and what EA UFC can take from it.

THQ servers sucked but they sure could make an awesome MMA and Wrestling game

I was very dissapointed when I found out EA Sports UFC3 would have the same ground and clinch as UFC2, yeah they wanted to overhaul the striking system but they could have at least spend some time doing something no matter how little about the clinch and ground game, it's the same and I hate it

It's going to be 2018 and we won't have a seated cage position in a MMA game, let that sink in ......

[GoDucks1224]

UFC Undisputed 3: Where it succeeded and what EA UFC can take from it.

EA is only good at making good graphics. Not gameplay. Look at battlefield, star wars, ect. All amazing graphics with no substance.

UFC Undisputed 3 is hands down the best MMA game of all time. EA UFC 3 may have made the striking better now, but this is MMA. The grappling is still garbage compared to Undisputed 3. I remember looking forward to have grapple wars in Undisputed 3. In EA UFC games I wanted nothing to do with it. Its just boring and terrible.

Disagree with the first point. Star Wars is actually a super fun game, but because of micro transactions it has soured everyone’s opinion on it. But the actual gameplay of BF2 is awesome. It actually feels Star Wars like, unlike BF1 which felt like a Battlefield game with lasers. And Battlefield 1 is far more enjoyable than that crap CoD put out. The graphics are fantastic of course, but the physics engine is far superior. The authenticity of a gritty, dirty world war 1. As a history buff, Battlefield 1 is certainly captivating. It’s campaign could have used more depth though. Also, the Mass Effect games were excellent until Andromeda, and those are published by EA. Dead Space. The first Mirrors Edge was good. And many more titles. Now as for Madden, NHL, etc. I agree. Gameplay in most of their sports games is crap lol. The sports games are where most of the problems are in my opinion.

[Pappy Knuckles]

Re: UFC Undisputed 3: Where it succeeded and what EA UFC can take from it.

There's something about the striking that just doesn't quite sit right either.

Some things I can point out specifically are:
- Jabs & weak punches ending fights, make the whole setup feel like a waste. << this is a huge thing imo but I know GPD doesn't want to setup specific KO conditions. For example, I threw a jab - hook - cross, he was KO'd on the jab when I planned to finish on the hook or cross :/
- Not being able to move head as smoothly as FNC, and getting almost murdered for going the wrong way. It's almost like the speed of the head movement compared to the speed of getting hit and murdered seem off. Like should the head be able to move faster? It doesn't feel like true 360 but rather flicking. Like I'm not in control. This is amplified if I get hit and stuck dead centre as my guy wobbles around. THQ had a similar system.
- The jab being quite difficult to use. Something about it just feels off but maybe I just need to play more.
- Fights ending too quickly. After round 2 or 3, the damage / vulnerability should go down, especially if both guys are tired where strikes would not be as explosive. It would make a grinding sort of fight more possible as opposed to instant KO action which gets stale quick, especially against CPU. Going to use them sliders to actually tone down damage & reduce stamina if possible to get some CPU fights to actually go the distance.
- Stamina actually slowing down fighters & reducing power output. Anthony Johnson fresh is a dangerous beast but get him tired and well, you have a chance.
- The combo system encourages you to throw combinations at a specific tempo as opposed to throwing naturally. For example, throw the jab-cross-hook as fast as you can and you'll get full damage regardless of stamina. What's the point then of throwing jab-cross PAUSE hook? There still is a point as you might get the opponent to drop his guard but then you lose the power advantage you would have had from throwing it as a combo.
- Power should be tied to button presses. Press a button really quickly and it comes out quick and light, hold it for slightly longer and it comes out as a power punch.
- A perfectly timed block press should allow a faster counter off it if it doesn't already. For example, I press block just a split second before a hook lands, I should be in a suitable position to throw a short counter hook of my own.
- The stand up feels quite crowded. Creating distance against an unwilling opponent is harder to do than just standing your ground and going toe to toe. Again, might just be a learning curve type thing but the defensive tools feel so risky that it makes more sense to go offensive and not bother as you're sure to get combo'd sooner or later. For example, the teep getting caught leads to being blasted into oblivion & throwing a static front leg teep takes too long to be used as a counter to a punch combo opponent.

When I play, it feels like I'm drowning, if that makes sense. So I have to go toe to toe to win as the combos are so powerful compared to defensive options. I'm not sure how this would be fixed or if it's a case of git gud. FNC, I didn't mind being in the pocket, or at the edge of range, both felt smooth and defensive options were plenty.

Here it feels so close to death if I choose to play a defensive fighter and sit back. It's also unrewarding for active defense such as moving my head and staying off centre, or trying to be illusive, as I get blasted into oblivion for choosing the wrong way. It's like the punch locks on perfectly, which wouldn't be an issue however the responsiveness & range of motion option just doesn't feel there to correct a problem like slipping the wrong way.

For example in FNC, I can actually slip into an opponent's hook and if I read it ahead of time, make a slight adjustment to still make him miss. Heck, I can lean all the way into the hook, and a slight movement in a different direction at the exact moment it's about to land can make him miss.

Here, there is no ability to react to it. I have to guess ahead of time which brings me back to the point, why bother trying to do that as I'm better off choosing to go offensive at that point as it's a safer bet.

Give it a go, for those of you that still have access to the beta. Just stand there and let the AI tee off on you and try to use head movement to get out of the situation. Do the same when you're rocked. It just doesn't sit right.

I think the 360 for FNC had more area you could cover between centre to the edge, and between the centre and edges there were even smaller bits that you could move towards to get away from a shot (deadzone). For example, leaning forward right full --->>> leaning right (at the last moment) avoids a hook as your head comes back slightly. Here it feels like just left, right, down, back, no nuance to it, just full commitment to a direction & that direction gets caught regardless of subtle adjustments on the head movement stick.

Then ontop of that, you aren't able to block as you go off to a direction. The advantage there should be that you take some sting off it but your movement is slower & the range of movement is hampered. Hands down by waist head movement allows for better balance & motion IRL but at the risk of getting clocked. Blocking & moving restricts movement but offers some protection.

Would be a good defensive option, allowing fights to go longer for both player and CPU as it becomes more difficult to connect & becomes more rewarding for purely defensive guys.

I appreciate hugely the efforts they've undertaken and the advice / feedback they've taken on board so far and hope they'll get it right. Perhaps my suggestions wouldn't work and this is the best way. I dunno. Basing it a lot off FNC which had its own issues too.

In my books, they have surpassed THQ's striking and I just wish they could implement some more of FNC defensive tools, fluidity and striking system as it would make things that much more fluid & allow players to really express themselves instead of fighting the way the game wants them to, particularly in the head movement & boxing department & particularly for counter fighters.

Pre-emptive counter striking is fantastic, such as slip off centre & throw a straight punch simultaneously.

Mid-combo counter striking is almost non-existent, particularly the boxing. The game heavily favours the combo speed & throws out frames in between the punches where there are counter punching opportunities. For example, a guy throws a jab-cross-hook, you should have the time, if you read and time it perfectly, block the jab, block the cross, and hook his hook with a lean back hook of your own. Or to block, block, duck. Or use 360 movement to ride the shots Anderson Silva style.

Post strike counter striking seems okay especially for big whiffs like overhands.

Aydin's gonna make us break out the magnifying glasses to read this on PC lol. Good post, though. The head movement between this and Fight Night is night and day. It's a big issue, for sure.

[Haz____]

Re: UFC Undisputed 3: Where it succeeded and what EA UFC can take from it.

Aydin's gonna make us break out the magnifying glasses to read this on PC lol. Good post, though. The head movement between this and Fight Night is night and day. It's a big issue, for sure.

GPD explains the reason Head movement feels wonky is because its read digitally and not analogous, which I guess means there is no "hit detection".

It's based on certain head movement directions causing specific sets of strikes to miss.

There is no actual hit detection, or subtle head movement movements.

It's literally if you move this way, you dodge these strikes, if you move that way, you dodge those strikes.

Subtle movements, and hit detection do not exist in this system.


IMO this couldnt get any more wrong, but GPD actually thinks having subtle headmovement, and actual hit detection is wrong and a waste of time....

I think he has it completely backwards, and it ruins the head movement in this game. For some reason he is actually against having it how it functions in FNC, and thinks there is no point in it being like that......

Extremely disappointing stuff.