Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

[Haz____]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

I dont know about anyone else, but I played in div 8, nobody threw that many head strikes consecutively when I would move my head. After 1-2 strikes theyd go to the body, as any competent player would.

In div 8, NOBODY plays the game like real Martial Arts. Everyone here knows the higher you go, the cheezier strategies you play against.

In UFC 2, past DIV 4, everyone is just throwing non stop mix up combos. OBVIOUSLY head movement doesn't work against that.

[Nugget7211]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

That seems mostly fair and logical.

I can agree with that.

In that case, I wish they spent more time on a true accuracy system then, rather than BLACK & WHITE: X beats Y - Y beats Z gameplay... Which is just as bad, but on the other side of the spectrum.

Honestly, I'm kinda sympathetic to the devs on this. They don't have the controller real estate to give control of punch angle to the players and adding punch tracking might cause weird situations where you'd jab someone half way through a takedown shot, or clip them with a hook as they shoot in a weird, unnatural manner, and it'd be nightmare to animate every type of punch at any given target, while also accounting for possibly having to transition into a takedown, or the clinch, or a kick, or any other punch.

[Haz____]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Honestly, I'm kinda sympathetic to the devs on this. They don't have the controller real estate to give control of punch angle to the players and adding punch tracking might cause weird situations where you'd jab someone half way through a takedown shot, or clip them with a hook as they shoot in a weird, unnatural manner, and it'd be nightmare to animate every type of punch at any given target, while also accounting for possibly having to transition into a takedown, or the clinch, or a kick, or any other punch.

Whether you read strikes Analogous or Digitally, there are pros and cons.

To me, a black and white, X beats y, rock paper scissors system, is so much more limiting, and simplistic.

If the other system is "just tricking me into thinking i'm clever", then I would still prefer that. Because it still looks, and feels so much more realistic.

[Nugget7211]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

In div 8, NOBODY plays the game like real Martial Arts. Everyone here knows the higher you go, the cheezier strategies you play against.

In UFC 2, past DIV 4, everyone is just throwing non stop mix up combos. OBVIOUSLY head movement doesn't work against that.

Even outside division 8, nobody half decent throws 6 shot combinations at your head if they're missing. Most players after whiffing once or twice will punch your body or kick your legs or something.

[Haz____]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Even outside division 8, nobody half decent throws 6 shot combinations at your head if they're missing. Most players after whiffing once or twice will punch your body or kick your legs or something.

Very true. That's an entirely fair point. But even guys in my UFC 2 League like UFCVet who are lightyears better than me at this game, will attest to how hard it is to land cleanly on me. It takes a ton of practice to pull it off.

It doesn't matter that much anyway. I'm not a hyper competitive player. I'm not trying to boast. I'm only trying to show how in this case, I have a wealth of experience to back up what i'm saying. I'm not the best player, or the most competitive, but in this area, I have tons and tons of experience.

[Nugget7211]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Whether you read strikes Analogous or Digitally, there are pros and cons.

To me, a black and white, X beats y, rock paper scissors system, is so much more limiting, and simplistic.

If the other system is "just tricking me into thinking i'm clever", then I would still prefer that. Because it still looks, and feels so much more realistic.

I'd prefer an accuracy system if they could implement it well, I'm just not sure how that would be done given all the things an MMA game has to account for.

And as for the just tricking you part, it's tricking you because you're letting it. 90% of other players, especially online, will just, to use the UFC 2 example, always lean back, because that works.

[DaisukEasy]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Honestly, I'm kinda sympathetic to the devs on this. They don't have the controller real estate to give control of punch angle to the players and adding punch tracking might cause weird situations where you'd jab someone half way through a takedown shot, or clip them with a hook as they shoot in a weird, unnatural manner, and it'd be nightmare to animate every type of punch at any given target, while also accounting for possibly having to transition into a takedown, or the clinch, or a kick, or any other punch.

This is exactly why I always add the caveat that it doesn't need to be implemented immediately, in the next patch or even this specific game.

To add half of the things the sim crowd (which includes me) wants into the game would require a drastic overhaul of certain mechanics, the introduction of new mechanics, hundreds of new animations and significant play testing to ensure the whole thing runs smoothly.

You can't just sloppily add these things to the game and expect things to be great..

[Haz____]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

90% of other players, especially online, will just, to use the UFC 2 example, always lean back, because that works.

Id argue, that 90% of other players don't care about trying to use realistic head movement because the game doesn't reward it.

If the game rewarded real to life headmovement, people would use it.

Instead you can just lean back, and throw 100 mix up combos, so that's what people do.


I don't think that takes away the point, that if used correctly, with real life technique behind you, it looks and feels awesome, and intensely satisfying.

[ZHunter1990]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Whether you read strikes Analogous or Digitally, there are pros and cons.

To me, a black and white, X beats y, rock paper scissors system, is so much more limiting, and simplistic.

If the other system is "just tricking me into thinking i'm clever", then I would still prefer that. Because it still looks, and feels so much more realistic.

This makes me think you didnt complety understand UFC3 head movement.

It isnt so black and white, this beats that.

In UFC3 you can actually do exactly what you are claiming in that Mayweather x Conor video.

Slip at the tip of jab range while moving diagonal towards the arc of the hook. You wont get hit if you do it right. I did this plenty to mitigate the jab hook mix ups.

edit: Away from the hook arc. But both ways are viable.

[Nugget7211]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Id argue, that 90% of other players don't care about trying to use realistic head movement because the game doesn't reward it.

If the game rewarded real to life headmovement, people would use it.

Instead you can just lean back, and throw 100 mix up combos, so that's what people do.


I don't think that takes away the point, that if used correctly, with real life technique behind you, it looks and feels awesome, and intensely satisfying.

This is correct, hence why I only said that in the context of your "tricking you" comment, you can't expect players to do a more difficult, riskier thing for the same reward.

[Haz____]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

This makes me think you didnt complety understand UFC3 head movement.

It isnt so black and white, this beats that.

In UFC3 you can actually do exactly what you are claiming in that Mayweather x Conor video.

Slip at the tip of jab range while moving diagonal towards the arc of the hook. You wont get hit if you do it right. I did this plenty to mitigate the jab hook mix ups.

I do these types of movements every single day in UFC 2, yet I wasn't able to pull it off in the beta at all.

You just jerk from 1 angle to the next after a delay.

If these movements are ingrained into my reflexes already, why can't I still pull them off?


I wish I could access the beta still so I wasn't just going off saved clips and memory. But I def couldn't pull off this kind of stuff in the beta.

[Nugget7211]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

I do these types of movements every single day in UFC 2, yet I wasn't able to pull it off in the beta at all.

You just jerk from 1 angle to the next after a delay.

If these movements are ingrained into my reflexes already, why can't I still pull them off?

I don't understand why you think that in what is a different system in 3, that the movements from 2 would all work the exact same ways. Like, the controls for a hook are different, why would you expect the head movement to control exactly the same way when nothing else in the striking does?

[Kenetic NRG]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

Very true. That's an entirely fair point. But even guys in my UFC 2 League like UFCVet who are lightyears better than me at this game, will attest to how hard it is to land cleanly on me. It takes a ton of practice to pull it off.

It doesn't matter that much anyway. I'm not a hyper competitive player. I'm not trying to boast. I'm only trying to show how in this case, I have a wealth of experience to back up what i'm saying. I'm not the best player, or the most competitive, but in this area, I have tons and tons of experience.

I could teach my nearly blind grandmother to sway head strikes in UFC2.

It wasn't hard and didn't take much thought process. There was very little REALISTIC logic that translated to the system, as Martialmind very clearly laid out to you. You couldn't pull this stuff off in the UFC3 beta because it was actually difficult to do and there was proper punishments for improper use. It wasn't just "sway any sort of direction before a strike and bam counter!"

What WAS hard, was correctly swaying versus good players who wouldn't wing random strikes at you into sways, and who would actually target your body and punish you severely for improper sway use.

You say you aren't trying to boast but nearly every post you are putting yourself on some pedestal acting like some gods gift to movement.. your lack of self awareness is astounding.

I almost don't even want to believe that YOU actually believe half the stuff you are saying, mainly because I refuse to believe people can be that stupid.

[Haz____]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

I don't understand why you think that in what is a different system in 3, that the movements from 2 would all work the exact same ways. Like, the controls for a hook are different, why would you expect the head movement to control exactly the same way when nothing else in the striking does?

Because headmovement is based on the rotation and movement of the anolog stick.

That basic control function doesn't change at all, it only switches from the left stick to the right.

[DaisukEasy]

Re: Head Movement: Final Boss Thread

I do these types of movements every single day in UFC 2, yet I wasn't able to pull it off in the beta at all.

If these movements are ingrained into my reflexes already, why can't I still pull them off?

That's a bit of a flawed argument.

The muscle memory you've developed doesn't apply to the current control scheme. That doesn't necessarily mean that the movement you're trying to do is not possible, just that it requires different inputs.