Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

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  • Reinfarcements
    Pro
    • Nov 2017
    • 633

    #676
    Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

    So what difficulty do you guys feel is the most "realistic"? I have played on Hard for a long time, decided to go up to Pro, and felt like I had to play more 'arcadey' to win. That is focusing on breaking blocks, putting a ton of pressure on the AI (kinda like people do online), ect. And less timing, picking shots, and setting up highs and lows.

    What are your thoughts? For more realism should I stick to Hard, or even Normal? Or do you feel Pro is just as realistic and I need to Git Gud?

    Comment

    • AeroZeppelin27
      MVP
      • Nov 2017
      • 2287

      #677
      Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

      Originally posted by Reinfarcements
      So what difficulty do you guys feel is the most "realistic"? I have played on Hard for a long time, decided to go up to Pro, and felt like I had to play more 'arcadey' to win. That is focusing on breaking blocks, putting a ton of pressure on the AI (kinda like people do online), ect. And less timing, picking shots, and setting up highs and lows.

      What are your thoughts? For more realism should I stick to Hard, or even Normal? Or do you feel Pro is just as realistic and I need to Git Gud?

      Personally, I'd say Pro in the current build.
      It's both sufficently challenging whilst maintaining most of the more realistic pace from Hard.

      I say pro because its a challenge. With AI trans +4-6 my win rate on Pro is maybe.. 60%?

      It's tricky, as it really comes down to the individual user.

      I like to mimic who I'm using, if they don't shoot, I don't shoot, if they grind, I grind, ect ect.
      And even if its getting my arse kicked because of it I don't stray from it, which for me. Results in most fights feeling like an adequate simulation of the real thing.

      There are a few things that are still realistic you don't have to do with the Hard AI, but is ESSENTIAL vs Pro AI.

      Stuff like fienting and short lunges are essential to throw off the AIs timing and get it wastig energy.

      If you just try to jab it up like you can the hard AI it'll time you and end you. I love that.

      It's not really a case of git gud (I hate saying that) its just a case of find what you personally enjoy.

      For me, that's pro all the way. But it was hard for a long, long time.

      Comment

      • Reinfarcements
        Pro
        • Nov 2017
        • 633

        #678
        Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

        Originally posted by AeroZeppelin27
        Personally, I'd say Pro in the current build.
        It's both sufficently challenging whilst maintaining most of the more realistic pace from Hard.

        I say pro because its a challenge. With AI trans +4-6 my win rate on Pro is maybe.. 60%?

        It's tricky, as it really comes down to the individual user.

        I like to mimic who I'm using, if they don't shoot, I don't shoot, if they grind, I grind, ect ect.
        And even if its getting my arse kicked because of it I don't stray from it, which for me. Results in most fights feeling like an adequate simulation of the real thing.

        There are a few things that are still realistic you don't have to do with the Hard AI, but is ESSENTIAL vs Pro AI.

        Stuff like fienting and short lunges are essential to throw off the AIs timing and get it wastig energy.

        If you just try to jab it up like you can the hard AI it'll time you and end you. I love that.

        It's not really a case of git gud (I hate saying that) its just a case of find what you personally enjoy.

        For me, that's pro all the way. But it was hard for a long, long time.
        Thanks for the input. I think I need a little more time at Hard before I move on to Pro, but I will make the move soon. The only thing I do not like on Pro that I have seen so far is the AI's tendency to block things they really should not have blocked. Like throwing a body-shot lead hook for the first time in round 3, and it being blocked. Just feels wrong, and don't get me wrong that could happen in Hard sometimes as well, it just basically happens in Pro every time. But I'm sure I will move to Pro in a month or two.

        Comment

        • AeroZeppelin27
          MVP
          • Nov 2017
          • 2287

          #679
          Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

          Originally posted by Reinfarcements
          Thanks for the input. I think I need a little more time at Hard before I move on to Pro, but I will make the move soon. The only thing I do not like on Pro that I have seen so far is the AI's tendency to block things they really should not have blocked. Like throwing a body-shot lead hook for the first time in round 3, and it being blocked. Just feels wrong, and don't get me wrong that could happen in Hard sometimes as well, it just basically happens in Pro every time. But I'm sure I will move to Pro in a month or two.
          Ah I get what you mean and I have the same issue, a few of us have reported it so I'm sure its on Skynets list of things to look at.

          Fients and fakes help it a little. But the AI will still unnaturally good at blocking at times.

          It's hard to articulate, but I know what you mean, it blocks in a way you rarely, if ever, see human players do.

          For example, the AI can perfectly block 4 strike high low mixups without fault sometimes.

          You might throw 1-2b-3-4 x 2 then 1-2b-3b-4 and it'll just perfectly block all the strikes, time the change in combo and block that too.

          It never mistimes a low block in a way that creates a high opening or vice versa. Which is something Human players do a lot. I think that's one of the major reasons the AIs block can feel unnatural.

          It's tricky though, I can't imagine its easy to get the AI to block consistently in a way that feels truly fluid or like a player.

          Like, I've said before "Oh it shouldn't be able to perfectly block a strike I've thrown for the first time if I set it up" but sadly, that's much easier said than done given (as far as I'm aware) the AI doesn't really recognize striking patterns or setups in the traditional sense.

          One issue I can see if this change was poorly implemented is an easy way to bait the AI. Similar to how if you throw only low kicks for 3 minutes, then blast a high kick, there is a 99% chance the AI will block low because its become conditioned to the low kicks.

          This is realistic, however, given its being handled by the computer it can be used unrealistically too.
          Which is my major worry with any of the hypothetical AI block changes.

          Hopefully that makes sense haha.

          Another thing I wouldn't be adverse to is a slight defensive buff to the Hard AI, so it denies, blocks and all that just a biiit more often.

          I still have a lot of fun with the hard AI, and it holds the best pace out of any difficulty IMO, but its just not challenging anymore.

          I dunno, I realize its silly to ask for a difficulty to be buffed simply because it doesn't challenge me personally. But I like that Hard AI haha.

          And I know a few people have mentioned the same lack of challenge being the main reason they moved to Pro.

          Comment

          • Reinfarcements
            Pro
            • Nov 2017
            • 633

            #680
            Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

            Yeah you nailed it, thats exactly what I was talking about. Again it happens on Hard as well, but in the few fights I tried on Pro it seemed to happen much more.

            Getting a middle ground between realistic player-like blocking and keeping the AI challenging has got to be rough to do, I don't think I've ever seen it done perfectly before in any game.

            Comment

            • Skynet
              EA Sports UFC Developer
              • Mar 2015
              • 703

              #681
              Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

              Damn! Take a week off and everyone looses their minds!

              In other news, lots of pages with lots of feedback. Good stuff.

              I'll definitely try to track down that sub postured-guard getup behavior from the grapplers. It might not be possible to get rid of it, but hopefully there's just some wires crossed.

              There are some changes coming in the next patch that will have a preeetty significant effect on the Woodley & Thompson types out there...so I'm trying not to pay too much attention to the feedback on those fighters at the moment. Hopefully it all works out for the better!

              Yes, everyone wants more sliders, myself included. No, they likely are not coming in patches due to the incredible amount of work they involve from many disciplines.

              Cro Cop is using the muay thai template, from what I can see. If there is decent consensus to change it and the powers that be agree, then it will likely happen. Though keep in mind, as much as you might agree and have trustworthy feedback, there's only 4-5 people actually active here...we have to weigh that against what we think the actual majority would be. Tricky thing, some times.

              Comment

              • Reinfarcements
                Pro
                • Nov 2017
                • 633

                #682
                Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

                I notice even on Pro difficulty (have not tested on Legendary) the AI has a rough time escaping from a stack-guard barrage. If you just spam light lefts and rights, it seems the AI tries to turtle up but the block just breaks too fast and you can usually finish the AI, especially if you've already done some damage.

                Comment

                • TheRizzzle
                  MVP
                  • Apr 2016
                  • 1443

                  #683
                  Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

                  Originally posted by Reinfarcements
                  I notice even on Pro difficulty (have not tested on Legendary) the AI has a rough time escaping from a stack-guard barrage. If you just spam light lefts and rights, it seems the AI tries to turtle up but the block just breaks too fast and you can usually finish the AI, especially if you've already done some damage.
                  In general I find that I'm not good enough to go Pro on the feet, but I'm too good for Hard on the ground.

                  And I can't quite figure out the sliders to make it challenging for me.

                  Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

                  Comment

                  • Reinfarcements
                    Pro
                    • Nov 2017
                    • 633

                    #684
                    Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

                    Originally posted by TheRizzzle
                    In general I find that I'm not good enough to go Pro on the feet, but I'm too good for Hard on the ground.

                    And I can't quite figure out the sliders to make it challenging for me.

                    Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
                    I feel that. Going from Hard to Pro striking is pretty drastic, since Pro AI uses far more complex combos. I made the transition to Pro once I got a lot better at making the AI miss. Making the Pro AI miss its more lengthy combos helps a lot in getting the stamina advantage, and ultimately the win. So I guess my advice would be to work on making the AI miss so you can move up to Pro with the striking.

                    As far as sliders if you want to stay at Hard, I don't mess with them much personally, but I've seen others say that speeding up grapple transitions drastically will make the AI feel much more competent on the ground.

                    Comment

                    • MeowingForVengeance
                      Pro
                      • May 2016
                      • 576

                      #685
                      Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

                      Originally posted by Reinfarcements
                      As far as sliders if you want to stay at Hard, I don't mess with them much personally, but I've seen others say that speeding up grapple transitions drastically will make the AI feel much more competent on the ground.
                      +4-6 grapple transition definitely makes the AI tougher to deal with on the ground. You can also reduce stamina cost for the AI if you really want a challenge.

                      Comment

                      • AeroZeppelin27
                        MVP
                        • Nov 2017
                        • 2287

                        #686
                        Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

                        Originally posted by MeowingForVengeance
                        +4-6 grapple transition definitely makes the AI tougher to deal with on the ground. You can also reduce stamina cost for the AI if you really want a challenge.
                        This guy gets it!

                        +4 is a good fit for "one size fits all"
                        +6 and above is for your hardcore good grappler types.

                        So far this is the only slider I regularly use and it enhances my experience 10fold.

                        As for the AI in stack, agreed.

                        A pattern of the AIs and all GnP I've noticed is that the AI will usually always go for a transition when your 1 strike away from a GnP finish.

                        So you land 10 shots from stack, or 5 elbows from HG postures up. The AI will always go to escape before the 11th/6th strike. Respectively.

                        But if you deny that escape, 1hitKO.
                        It's like a last ditch escape attempt. But its quite predictable.

                        Comment

                        • Notorious752
                          Rookie
                          • Nov 2017
                          • 69

                          #687
                          Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

                          I don't really have much feedback to help make the AI better at this stage, but instead praise for the work that Skynet and any other devs and/or GCs have done. I jumped into Fight Now last night after Online Quick Fight and I decided I'd give Pro AI another go. I normally fight on hard because Pro used to be a challenge for me, as long as I stayed on my toes and didn't get over aggressive or over confident. I had a bout as Nick Diaz against Tyron Woodley at WW and I won, it felt easy to do so I thought I'll try Legendary and I'll get crushed and strive to get better... Well, I managed to beat Tyron again on Legendary. He was superior to his Pro version but I got the KO. I tried one last time on Legendary but decided to go against someone who would probably mess me up just by looking at him funny, so I chose RDA. It was a one round WAR. We bloodied, bruised and broke each other. RDA had the upper hand with my stamina being low but I managed to finish him inside of Round 1. We all know had that went on longer, I would have lost. RDA also had me on the scorecards.


                          I now love legendary AI. It is literally like taking on the fighter. I am now super keen to try my hand against someone insane and I'm sure I'll get humbled but I'll be keen to try again


                          UFC 3 is my favorite fighting game on the planet

                          Comment

                          • AeroZeppelin27
                            MVP
                            • Nov 2017
                            • 2287

                            #688
                            Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

                            Jake Matthews seems to have a purely striker AI at WW (and maybe LW too, haven't tested)

                            He should be more of a boxer/grappler AI type that will shoot TDs and look for submissions.

                            Comment

                            • Pappy Knuckles
                              LORDTHUNDERBIRD
                              • Sep 2004
                              • 15966

                              #689
                              Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

                              I haven't commented much on the AI on this game, but I just wanted to show it a bit of love. I primarily play on Legendary and have had great experiences doing so. I've yet to experiment with sliders, but I might try some of the tweaks Aero mentioned. Much props on the offline play, it was barely worth fighting the CPU in the first two.

                              Comment

                              • AeroZeppelin27
                                MVP
                                • Nov 2017
                                • 2287

                                #690
                                Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

                                Would it be safe to assume the AI will be adjusted to acknowledge the new stamina tax on whiffed strikes with the next patch?

                                I'm loving the change. But its very very easy to gas the AI I'm finding, especially if your feinting often as they'll bite with multiple strike combos you can easily avoid

                                Or if your using a counterstriking heavy gameplan, ect.

                                The AI was pretty good at going 3 rounds before gassing prior to the tuner but I'm getting a lot of guys going to the full gassed state by round 2.

                                What is everyone else experiencing?

                                admittedly I've only played a handful of matchups so far, but given how drastic this stamina change is I'm interested if there will be any AI tweaks for it.

                                These were 5 round, acc clock, pro fights mainly at BW with the higher teir guys (anyone around Moraes stat level as I was using him)

                                Comment

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