Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

[aholbert32]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

I'm not saying he isn't a good striker, but he's not a great striker or counter striker like the game can make it seem at times. Dude literally counters you with perfectly timed front kicks to the face Anderson Silva style and stuff. It kinda kills the immersion for me.

Is your issue the strikes he uses to counter? or his timing? or the fact that he counters as much as he does?

If its the latter, I dont know what to do there. His setting when it comes to striking as a counter is low. He's way more likely to attempt a TD or clinch in response to a strike.

Maybe Skynet can do something about his timing but I think thats a difficulty thing. It would help if we could see a video because AI behavior is affected by player behavior.

[WarMMA]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

Is your issue the strikes he uses to counter? or his timing? or the fact that he counters as much as he does?

If its the latter, I dont know what to do there. His setting when it comes to striking as a counter is low. He's way more likely to attempt a TD or clinch in response to a strike.

Maybe Skynet can do something about his timing but I think thats a difficulty thing. It would help if we could see a video because AI behavior is affected by player behavior.

I guess it's cuz of the difficulty with his timing like you say. Like he'll mostly fight like DC, pressing forward with strikes and looking for clinch and td attempts. But then sometimes he'll just go straight Anderson Silva on you. I'm just wondering if that has to be the route to make the game more difficult. Like making the AI so good at countering.

[MeowingForVengeance]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

Anyone else feeling like the AI doesn't do a great job defending itself in thai clinch? I find myself purposely not going for it just because it's so easy to land body knee after body knee, even on pro difficulty.

[AeroZeppelin27]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

So, today I learned you can sprawl kick catch takedowns.

I did it once before but didn't believe my eyes.
But I just did it again as Woodley vs Usman, he caught my kick, I assumed TD and hit sprawl and Woodley did a badass T-Ferg style duck and roll to pull his leg out of the catch.

I'd love to see AIs with say.. 95+ TDD to do this.
Guys like Aldo, Woodley, GSP and Ferguson even though his TDD isn't that high, the animation is basically something he'd do.

The AI doesn't seem to defend against catches at all currently.

[AeroZeppelin27]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

I guess it's cuz of the difficulty with his timing like you say. Like he'll mostly fight like DC, pressing forward with strikes and looking for clinch and td attempts. But then sometimes he'll just go straight Anderson Silva on you. I'm just wondering if that has to be the route to make the game more difficult. Like making the AI so good at countering.

I know exactly what your saying.

Occasionally the AI will counter you with the perfect strike, timed so well it barely feels human.

For me its the damn spinning backfist. I've had the AI time that on me when I'm feinting a jab.

It's mainly an issue on Pro and Above.
It's not so much an issue even as it can just feel unnatural.

As I've said before its like the AI can read the frames and knows all the frametimes for every strike and can reference that immediately in a way a person can't.

And that's fine for the most part, where it can feel like an issue is with strike selection.
DC and the front kick is a good example, Manuwa and the backfist for front kicks is another.

For some strikes it just chooses a crazy ninja strike that you barely ever see used because you need to time it PERFECTLY and there are other, safer counters.

It's also partly an issue with fighter individuality too, it works when Andersons AI does it, but it feels off for DC, but its not something either are specifically programmed to do (AFAIK)

I don't know what the fix is if honest.
One idea I have us tying certain counter options for the AI to what combos it has.

So, if its DC, who only has boxing combos,
He should only counter with his hands in basically all counter situations.

Whereas Anderson, who has Kickboxing, MT, Boxing and possibly traditional can choose from the entire strike pool to counter.

To put it another way, it'd be like this:
If the fighter has any level of these combos, they can counter with;

Boxing Combos: All punches barring spin strikes/elbows.

Kickboxing Combos: Round kicks, body kicks, spin kicks, backfists.

Muay Thai: Low kicks, body kicks, switch kicks, elbows, knees, spin elbows, front kicks.

Traditional: Spin strikes, front kicks, side kicks, backfists.

There could easily be overlap with certain strikes and default strikes everyone can counter with too.

What do you guys think?

[WarMMA]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

^ Yh sounds good. Of course idk if it's that easy to do. It just kills the immersion for me when I see a fighter like DC countering me with a perfectly timed front kick to the face like he's Anderson or Machida. Would much perfer if he countered much more with his boxing like you say. Like i'm sure DC probably used the front kick irl since its in his moveset, but you ain't gonna see DC countering with no perfectly timed front kicks irl. He's not that great of a counter striker. Btw Skynet if you read this, this isn't to take anything away from you. I think you have done a great job so far. The AI is much better, regardless of these few little issues.

[AeroZeppelin27]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

^ Agree 100%, Skynet has done wonderful things.

Anywho, I've come to post some findings.

The AI has a odd tendency to throw too many ? Kicks, lead or rear.

Much like the spinming backfist for fighterss who have it, the AI will go to the ? Kick as its go-to high kick seemingly.

Prior I thought it was just Rockholds AI in particular.

But ever since TJ was given the lead ? kick, his AI has began throwing it as his predominant headkick instead of the ducking roundhouse/rear roundhouse.

However, UNLIKE the SBF, the AI is hopeless with the kick, it doesn't set them up and just throws them naked quite often.

I really do think these kicks and the spinning backfist, specifically the rear variant are overused massively by the AI and if possible, should be thrown far less.

Though I think Skynet has said its not as simple as just lowering a percentage to throw of a specific strike as much it is there's a reason the AI keeps picking that strike from the pool.

[Skynet]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

^ Agree 100%, Skynet has done wonderful things.

Anywho, I've come to post some findings.

The AI has a odd tendency to throw too many ? Kicks, lead or rear.

Much like the spinming backfist for fighterss who have it, the AI will go to the ? Kick as its go-to high kick seemingly.

Prior I thought it was just Rockholds AI in particular.

But ever since TJ was given the lead ? kick, his AI has began throwing it as his predominant headkick instead of the ducking roundhouse/rear roundhouse.

However, UNLIKE the SBF, the AI is hopeless with the kick, it doesn't set them up and just throws them naked quite often.

I really do think these kicks and the spinning backfist, specifically the rear variant are overused massively by the AI and if possible, should be thrown far less.

Though I think Skynet has said its not as simple as just lowering a percentage to throw of a specific strike as much it is there's a reason the AI keeps picking that strike from the pool.

There's very small nuances in what we can and cannot do. This one, thankfully, is actually possible.

In the past, people have specifically asked to reduce roundhouse to the leg, or roundhouse to the head, or uppercuts from a distance, etc. It's often the combination or specificity of the request that makes it difficult.

Simply reducing ? kicks in general, is possible.

Yay.

[AeroZeppelin27]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

There's very small nuances in what we can and cannot do. This one, thankfully, is actually possible.

In the past, people have specifically asked to reduce roundhouse to the leg, or roundhouse to the head, or uppercuts from a distance, etc. It's often the combination or specificity of the request that makes it difficult.

Simply reducing ? kicks in general, is possible.

Yay.

Wooooooo!

That's awesome.

[AeroZeppelin27]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

I know I'm a broken drum on this one.
But we need to talk spinning backfist.

off all the ways the AI uses it as a counter (I've been labbing this) there is one that is just insanely infruiating and makes the AI feel godly.

And that is the advancing jab feint. The AI can, and will time a rear SBF (both fighters orthodox) that will land before you even finish the feint. It's crazy.

When the AI does it after I've spammed 3-5 jab feints carelessly, it feels cool kinda, I can understand it.

When the AI times it on my FIRST jab feint of the entire fight, its immersion breaking.

I've also discovered its one of the AIs favourite ways to counter (both fighters orthodox in all examples)

Lead Roundhouse kicks, high body and low.
Lead Teep kick body.
Rear spin back fists.
Advancing jabs.
Rear front kick high.

The AI predominantly counters all of these with the SBF.

Whats more is it can generally time the SBF on you even when you fake these strikes.

I just labbed it vs Manuwa where I was Gus, and threw mainly these strikes and baited 9 SBF counters in 1 round on Pro, I was playing very aggressively though.

I can upload it if required.

It's improved since the patch, as the AI mixes up using sways and footwork way more often, before the patch you could almost always get manuwa to SBF with the lead teep.

Now he doesn't bite as much, but often when he uses a strike counter to any of those listed strikes its almost always the SBF.

Honestly I wonder if the strike itself is a touch OP.
I mean, you don't often see strikes that will land quicker than a feint. And usually the AI throws the SBF after you initiate the fake.

I'll upload the clip soon.
Again, its improved, as the AI isn't simply always countering with strikes anymore, but it still decides to counter with the SBF too often IMO.

And it times them way too well. It's one move thats timed so well it really reminds you that you're fighting a computer sometimes.

Edit: Here is the clip;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtGdAcD2qpI

I also want to point out this was literally my first attempt at getting this footage.
Which I think says something to how often the AI will use the A
SBF.

I'm also playing like an overaggressive git to get Manuwa as active as possible on counters, I don't always play this silly haha.

[td7]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

Is it normal for Cain Velasquez to get submissions? I just looked at his real-life record he's never had one submission from what I can gather. But I just did a cpu vs cpu match and he submitted the guy in the 1st rd.

[AeroZeppelin27]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

Is it normal for Cain Velasquez to get submissions? I just looked at his real-life record he's never had one submission from what I can gather. But I just did a cpu vs cou match and he submitted the guy.

That seems to happen with a LOT of AI vs AI matches. I have no idea why.

I think Cain has tried to submit me maaaybe once when I'm playing against him and he failed because his sub stats rightfully suck.

But whenever I do AI vs AI. It always ends up on the ground and with a sub finish.

Whenever I sim a tourney it.usually always ends up with a Sub win aswell. It's really weird because most of these AIs rarely if ever attempt subs when I play them unless they should be going for them.

This and the idling within striking range are two weird little things I've only seen as issues in AI v AI, they don't affect the player experience at all. Odd.

[Skynet]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

I know I'm a broken drum on this one.
But we need to talk spinning backfist.

I tuned those down with the ? mark kicks, and increased basic jab/straight usage on all fighters. Won't drop for a couple weeks, but hopefully makes a noticeable difference.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

After fighting Khabib on legendary post -patch a few times I actually think the higher level aggrssion he had was perfect before.

Now he sits back sometimes instead of constantly pushing

He also stood up from FG once but then immediately walked back towards me. Was weird since he could’ve went straight for stacked guard.

Also any chance the cpu could be tuned to land some auto TDs? Someone like Khabib should kill you for attempting any kicks

[Haz_____]

Re: Fighter AI Realism vs Difficulty

Can someone explain to me what is going on here?

Im controling Zabit. Till is computer Ai.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/WRHWHqa4sLU" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Till just refuses to do anything untill you make an input first.