One gate submissions need to be removed ASAP

[killakrok]

Re: One gate submissions need to be removed ASAP

How often and in what instances do 1 or 2 stage submissions happen?

If they are during FTF sequences, when you have your opponents back, or other dominant positions and are successful with high level grapplers then I wouldn't see it as such a big problem. If they happen often from common positions with average grapplers then I'd be concerned.

[Serengeti1]

Re: One gate submissions need to be removed ASAP

How often and in what instances do 1 or 2 stage submissions happen?

If they are during FTF sequences, when you have your opponents back, or other dominant positions and are successful with high level grapplers then I wouldn't see it as such a big problem. If they happen often from common positions with average grapplers then I'd be concerned.

You can do a flying armbar from the clinch. No way should a two gate sub finish the fight unless you've done something serious to deserve it. Like badly hurt the guy or knock him down. It's difficult to get out of a two gate sub against a guy who knows what he's doing. It's not a real earned victory and is really anticlimactic.

[burningxspirit]

Re: One gate submissions need to be removed ASAP

You can do a flying armbar from the clinch. No way should a two gate sub finish the fight unless you've done something serious to deserve it. Like badly hurt the guy or knock him down. It's difficult to get out of a two gate sub against a guy who knows what he's doing. It's not a real earned victory and is really anticlimactic.

Lmao "not a real earned victory".... that's rediculous, its actually harder to finish by sub than any other method. There is no secret, or cheap way to submit someone. Being reactive to escape gates and more importantly, predicting escapes is a skill and it takes lots of experience to master. You say that's its difficult to get out against a guy who knows what their doing, like it's their fault your sub D sucks. If your easily tapping to two gate subs then the amount of gates isn't the problem, it's your sub D that's the problem. I routinely let people get 4 gates in intentionally knowing that I will escape and get on top.

The gates are sped up now just like they were in UFC 2 so yall have no escuse.

[Serengeti1]

Re: One gate submissions need to be removed ASAP

Lmao "not a real earned victory".... that's rediculous, its actually harder to finish by sub than any other method. There is no secret, or cheap way to submit someone. Being reactive to escape gates and more importantly, predicting escapes is a skill and it takes lots of experience to master. You say that's its difficult to get out against a guy who knows what their doing, like it's their fault your sub D sucks. If your easily tapping to two gate subs then the amount of gates isn't the problem, it's your sub D that's the problem. I routinely let people get 4 gates in intentionally knowing that I will escape and get on top.

The gates are sped up now just like they were in UFC 2 so yall have no escuse.

I'd sub you. The rest of your comment isn't worth addressing tbh

[burningxspirit]

Re: One gate submissions need to be removed ASAP

I'd sub you. The rest of your comment isn't worth addressing tbh

Doubt it. 1500 subs wins in UFC 2 ranked , less than 90 sub losses and I rarely used hi ranked sub guys. Im talking subbing great players with Vick, Pena etc. U can't really address my comment outside of agreeing with me becuase it's all truth and experience.

[Serengeti1]

Re: One gate submissions need to be removed ASAP

Doubt it. 1500 subs wins in UFC 2 ranked , less than 90 sub losses and I really don't even use Chessmaster.

Honestly tho... Yes 2 gates can def be escaped but it's also very easy to get a win that way. A guy with high sub stats (which is likely if they have a 2 gate sub) has a very solid shot of subbing any striker of a similar skill level. I'm not really sure how that's fair without really earning it. 3 gates would be better. I still think it should be 4 minimum but 2 is definitely too little.

I don't like winning by submission either tbh because I don't feel satisfied. It being harder than any other method I completely disagree with. Very convenient that you think that when you love winning by submission though.

Predicting escapes is a skill that takes a lot of experience to master? Pls break it down for me considering it's too complex for me

[SMOKEZERO]

Re: One gate submissions need to be removed ASAP

2 gate clinch subs are fine. If anything needs tuning it's the entry windows


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[burningxspirit]

Re: One gate submissions need to be removed ASAP

Honestly tho... Yes 2 gates can def be escaped but it's also very easy to get a win that way. A guy with high sub stats (which is likely if they have a 2 gate sub) has a very solid shot of subbing any striker of a similar skill level. I'm not really sure how that's fair without really earning it. 3 gates would be better. I still think it should be 4 minimum but 2 is definitely too little.

I don't like winning by submission either tbh because I don't feel satisfied. It being harder than any other method I completely disagree with. Very convenient that you think that when you love winning by submission though.

Predicting escapes is a skill that takes a lot of experience to master? Pls break it down for me considering it's too complex for me

I didn't get amazing at subs until the end of UFC 1. Its kind of hard to explain but it's about setting traps and/or learning patterns. Some are more inclined to escape by going the opposite direction while others are more enclosed to go from down to right etc. Sometimes the bets way to garantee a sub is to try many subs and catch on to their patterns so you can set traps. Really the more you escape from my subs you don't even realize your digging your own grave. I'm either going to tap you eventual or win rounds with close subs. But ive done so many subs that's I'm pretty good at predicting patterns right from the get go.

Sometimes the way of catching people is either letting them fill up a gate pretty close, then when they go another direction be prepared to go back to that gate that's you let them fill up. Sometimes you also have to know when to hold your ground in a certain direction even if your opponent is rapidly escaping in other directions, in anticipation that they will try to ultimately escape through that gate. And there's even more to it than that. There are so many intangibles that go into mastering subs,if you knew that you'd understand why I'm baffled that someone can say it's an unearned victory. While that was certainly true when the trial first came out but now it's where it should be.

[The Relaxed Guy]

Re: One gate submissions need to be removed ASAP

I think for situations where the opponent is gassed or rocked badly it makes sense. Instant taps are part of the sport so it should be part of the game

I agree, it is part of the sport. I just don't think they have a place in this sub system. I'm not arguing against their existence, just their place in the current system.

And btw, I'm not talking about when gassed or rocked. I'm referring to the straight up one gate subs. Tony Ferguson has a one gate kimura from back side, I just got caught in a neutral damage/stamina scenario and got nowhere close to escaping before tapping. My sub defense is good, I doubt this is user error.




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[Serengeti1]

Re: One gate submissions need to be removed ASAP

2 gate clinch subs are fine. If anything needs tuning it's the entry windows


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Surprised there is more than 1 person that thinks this tbh lol. I guess it's more common than I thought that people like 2 gate subs that weren't really worked for? Each to their own I guess. Are you saying the entry window should be smaller?

If you take a guy down.... grind his stamina down and earn a sub win... well then it's earned.

Doing a 2 gate sub with op sub stats when your opponent has full stamina is corny. The denial window only matters so much because you can fake to get the sub.

I didn't get amazing at subs until the end of UFC 1. Its kind of hard to explain but it's about setting traps and/or learning patterns. Some are more inclined to escape by going the opposite direction while others are more enclosed to go from down to right etc. Sometimes the bets way to garantee a sub is to try many subs and catch on to their patterns so you can set traps. Really the more you escape from my subs you don't even realize your digging your own grave. I'm either going to tap you eventual or win rounds with close subs. But ive done so many subs that's I'm pretty good at predicting patterns right from the get go.

Sometimes the way of catching people is either letting them fill up a gate pretty close, then when they go another direction be prepared to go back to that gate that's you let them fill up. Sometimes you also have to know when to hold your ground in a certain direction even if your opponent is rapidly escaping in other directions, in anticipation that they will try to ultimately escape through that gate. And there's even more to it than that. There are so many intangibles that go into mastering subs,if you knew that you'd understand why I'm baffled that someone can say it's an unearned victory. While that was certainly true when the trial first came out but now it's where it should be.

I understand and do everything you explained. I still feel they're cheap. I respect your opinion. You're not the only one that has it but I genuinely have always seen it as a mobile game that detracts from the gameplay experience and immersion. There are more variables in the striking and grappling.

[The Relaxed Guy]

Re: One gate submissions need to be removed ASAP

How often and in what instances do 1 or 2 stage submissions happen?

If they are during FTF sequences, when you have your opponents back, or other dominant positions and are successful with high level grapplers then I wouldn't see it as such a big problem. If they happen often from common positions with average grapplers then I'd be concerned.

The one I'm referring to is the kimura from submissive standing back control. Once initiated, you get one gate to escape. Stamina/damage/health don't seem to matter, even a stamina advantage isn't enough to escape one gate. It's essentially inescapable, assuming both players are competent.


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[Slickrick_Csc]

Re: One gate submissions need to be removed ASAP

I always felt that stamina should determine the number of gates it takes to pull off and also the speed of the fill for both players . If you’re low on stamina n he’s full, you should have no chance to pull off a sub since he’ll fill the gates up fast. And vice verse if you’re full n he’s low bc he’s gassed, you should get less gates to go through n he’s slower at filling up the gates.

I don’t understand why stamina isn’t applied to the gates at all.or at least it doesn’t seem it is to me. I’m glad they have these one gates for rocked subs but I do think they should be 2 gate subs for rocked subs n if they got rocked while low on stamina then 1 gate.


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[SMOKEZERO]

Re: One gate submissions need to be removed ASAP

The one I'm referring to is the kimura from submissive standing back control. Once initiated, you get one gate to escape. Stamina/damage/health don't seem to matter, even a stamina advantage isn't enough to escape one gate. It's essentially inescapable, assuming both players are competent.


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Agree here. All clinch subs should be a minimum of 2 gates.


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[metodman39]

Re: One gate submissions need to be removed ASAP

Also arm trap to submission

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[SMOKEZERO]

Re: One gate submissions need to be removed ASAP

The defensive "choice lock" grappling system as a whole, hurts the submission game because of the transition fakes. For submissions only, you should be able to deny the attempt even if it requires an extra input, at the cost of stamina penalty. Or to quick fix, the entry to submissions should be longer. Early submission defense isn't a thing on this game really, but it is in real mma. Good luck even getting a submission attempt against Maia, Jacare and Ortega. Their sub defense is shut down. In this game they have to rely on the mini game stats.


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