Why does flattening someone in Back Mount drain YOUR Stamina

Collapse

Recommended Videos

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Leosbs
    Rookie
    • Nov 2017
    • 58

    #16
    Re: Why does flattening someone in Back Mount drain YOUR Stamina

    @GPD, why the RNC from Back Flat now have 5 gates? Balance issues?

    It was my go to submission in UFC 2, when it had 3 gates. Tought it was pretty awesome to make my way to back flat and be rewarded with a 3 gate sub, considering that the RNC from back mount was 5 gates and back sitting was 4
    Last edited by Leosbs; 02-01-2018, 01:43 PM.

    Comment

    • bmlimo
      MVP
      • Apr 2016
      • 1123

      #17
      Re: Why does flattening someone in Back Mount drain YOUR Stamina

      Originally posted by chia
      Lol there is nothing about posturing on a flattened opponent soaking up your stamina that says "balance" to me.
      if he doesnt lose stamina, u cant get out of the bottom

      Comment

      • GameplayDevUFC
        Former EA Sports UFC Gameplay Developer
        • Jun 2014
        • 2830

        #18
        Re: Why does flattening someone in Back Mount drain YOUR Stamina

        Originally posted by bmlimo
        if he doesnt lose stamina, u cant get out of the bottom
        Yeah, this.

        Combination of balance and what the fighters told us led to this setup.

        You can do a lot of damage in back flat down.

        Comment

        • johnmangala
          MVP
          • Apr 2016
          • 4525

          #19
          Re: Why does flattening someone in Back Mount drain YOUR Stamina

          I agree but it's probably to keep the flat back mount from being too overpowered.

          Comment

          • chia
            MVP
            • Jul 2005
            • 1090

            #20
            Re: Why does flattening someone in Back Mount drain YOUR Stamina

            Originally posted by johnmangala
            I agree but it's probably to keep the flat back mount from being too overpowered.
            It's in reality the most dominant position to be in in MMA so it should be over powered because that reflects reality. To address balance shorten the denial window to allow for the opponent to turn and put their back to the mat and go back to Mount.

            You DO NOT gas from being postured up on someone in Back Mount after 10-15 seconds in real life. Yet that's what happens in game.
            ilovejiujitsu

            Comment

            • Haz____
              Omaewa mou shindeiru
              • Apr 2016
              • 4023

              #21
              Re: Why does flattening someone in Back Mount drain YOUR Stamina

              Ok Ok... I gotta admit. I had a pretty huge LOL at telling a lifelong BJJ blackbelt to "Try it in real life"..
              PSN: Lord__Hazanko

              Just an average player, with a passion for Martial Arts & Combat Sports

              Comment

              • aholbert32
                (aka Alberto)
                • Jul 2002
                • 33106

                #22
                Re: Why does flattening someone in Back Mount drain YOUR Stamina

                Originally posted by Haz____
                Ok Ok... I gotta admit. I had a pretty huge LOL at telling a lifelong BJJ blackbelt to "Try it in real life"..
                I find it strange that you find that funny. Especially when he is quoting [B]actual professional fighters.

                I'm not downgrading Chia's experience because I think its valid but I think the take of multiple UFC fighters is also very valid.

                Comment

                • GameplayDevUFC
                  Former EA Sports UFC Gameplay Developer
                  • Jun 2014
                  • 2830

                  #23
                  Re: Why does flattening someone in Back Mount drain YOUR Stamina

                  Originally posted by aholbert32
                  I find it strange that you find that funny. Especially when he is quoting [B]actual professional fighters.

                  I'm not downgrading Chia's experience because I think its valid but I think the take of multiple UFC fighters is also very valid.
                  That and he also said it would be tiring on the legs and lower back, which is exactly what the fighters told us as well.

                  Yeah, LOL.

                  Comment

                  • Dave_S
                    Dave
                    • Apr 2016
                    • 7835

                    #24
                    Re: Why does flattening someone in Back Mount drain YOUR Stamina

                    From a calisthenics point of view holding the position for extended period sounds like murder on the abs.

                    Comment

                    • TehFlame
                      Rookie
                      • Apr 2016
                      • 149

                      #25
                      Re: Why does flattening someone in Back Mount drain YOUR Stamina

                      We've practiced that position in wrestling and it's really uncomfortable. It's just that if it's uncomfortable for you, it's even worse for the guy on bottom.

                      It hasn't been mentioned yet so maybe I did it wrong (I wasn't a leg rider, so I only did it during drills), but that position would CRUSH my balls. It's the biggest reason I hated it

                      Comment

                      • chia
                        MVP
                        • Jul 2005
                        • 1090

                        #26
                        Re: Why does flattening someone in Back Mount drain YOUR Stamina

                        Originally posted by aholbert32
                        I find it strange that you find that funny. Especially when he is quoting [B]actual professional fighters.

                        I'm not downgrading Chia's experience because I think its valid but I think the take of multiple UFC fighters is also very valid.
                        That and he also said it would be tiring on the legs and lower back, which is exactly what the fighters told us as well.

                        Yeah, LOL.
                        I've cited in another post about the relation of the drain in real life versus what is reflected in game. That's the larger issue.

                        There is another complexity to it which is which (not asking you to name names) fighters you got the information from because a Cormier or Maia or Jacare could hold people in that position for weeks without feeling the stamina drain that is represented in the game. A striker with a decent grappling/wrestling base would feel it a little more sure but not like it is reflected in game.

                        I didn't approach this with a bronze fighter with low Grapple Stamina or anything. I used Gold fighters in multiple classes with high Grapple Stamina (85+) and they all got zapped of their stamina REALLY quickly against the cpu and against actual people when posturing from there.
                        ilovejiujitsu

                        Comment

                        • GameplayDevUFC
                          Former EA Sports UFC Gameplay Developer
                          • Jun 2014
                          • 2830

                          #27
                          Re: Why does flattening someone in Back Mount drain YOUR Stamina

                          Originally posted by chia
                          I've cited in another post about the relation of the drain in real life versus what is reflected in game. That's the larger issue.

                          There is another complexity to it which is which (not asking you to name names) fighters you got the information from because a Cormier or Maia or Jacare could hold people in that position for weeks without feeling the stamina drain that is represented in the game. A striker with a decent grappling/wrestling base would feel it a little more sure but not like it is reflected in game.

                          I didn't approach this with a bronze fighter with low Grapple Stamina or anything. I used Gold fighters in multiple classes with high Grapple Stamina (85+) and they all got zapped of their stamina REALLY quickly against the cpu and against actual people when posturing from there.
                          Also keep in mind we've increased the long term stamina drain while grappling without re balancing this aspect (because we can't with a live tuner set).

                          It's something I want to address more holistically in a future patch.

                          Comment

                          • chia
                            MVP
                            • Jul 2005
                            • 1090

                            #28
                            Re: Why does flattening someone in Back Mount drain YOUR Stamina

                            Originally posted by GameplayDevUFC
                            Also keep in mind we've increased the long term stamina drain while grappling without re balancing this aspect (because we can't with a live tuner set).

                            It's something I want to address more holistically in a future patch.
                            I didn't know this couldn't be done through the live tuner system. I would suggest getting back in touch with some of the fighters you have contact with (especially those with a concentration in BJJ or Wrestling) to get a more complete idea about the draining strikes from each of the positions that would need to be altered EVER SO SLIGHTLY to present a more complete picture.

                            Also certain situational aspects like someone postured from Mount (not Back Mount this time) wouldn't be able to stop the Upa (unless you are dazed from strikes) so it should be easier to Upa (bump the hips) than it currently is. More like a flicking motion as soon as they posture in Mount which should feel more organic and fluid. I'm only speaking on current animations in the game. Maybe lowering windows or something like that.
                            ilovejiujitsu

                            Comment

                            • GameplayDevUFC
                              Former EA Sports UFC Gameplay Developer
                              • Jun 2014
                              • 2830

                              #29
                              Re: Why does flattening someone in Back Mount drain YOUR Stamina

                              Originally posted by chia
                              I didn't know this couldn't be done through the live tuner system. I would suggest getting back in touch with some of the fighters you have contact with (especially those with a concentration in BJJ or Wrestling) to get a more complete idea about the draining strikes from each of the positions that would need to be altered EVER SO SLIGHTLY to present a more complete picture.

                              Also certain situational aspects like someone postured from Mount (not Back Mount this time) wouldn't be able to stop the Upa (unless you are dazed from strikes) so it should be easier to Upa (bump the hips) than it currently is. More like a flicking motion as soon as they posture in Mount which should feel more organic and fluid. I'm only speaking on current animations in the game. Maybe lowering windows or something like that.
                              It's a delicate balance because of the limited offensive and defensive options in mount.

                              We don't want to make finishing in mount too difficult by making the defensive options too strong, even if those options in isolation aren't as true to life in terms of difficulty as they should be.

                              Comment

                              • johnmangala
                                MVP
                                • Apr 2016
                                • 4525

                                #30
                                Re: Why does flattening someone in Back Mount drain YOUR Stamina

                                Originally posted by chia
                                It's in reality the most dominant position to be in in MMA so it should be over powered because that reflects reality. To address balance shorten the denial window to allow for the opponent to turn and put their back to the mat and go back to Mount.

                                You DO NOT gas from being postured up on someone in Back Mount after 10-15 seconds in real life. Yet that's what happens in game.
                                It should be the most dominant position, but it is already more dangerous than mount but easier to get out of.

                                I say it because it's probably the same reason single collar punches won't get health events or clinch breaks, because they may feel it becomes too overpowered.

                                Comment

                                Working...