"predictive" head movement doesn't work

[Phillyboi207]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

So, moving your head sitting there?

Moving your head at such a slow pace and limited angle that you’re still “sitting there” in the line of fire.

What’s your end goal when you start acting like a dick?

[Solid_Altair]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

Moving your head at such a slow pace and limited angle that you’re still “sitting there” in the line of fire.

What’s your end goal when you start acting like a dick?

Getting that reply.

Just making sure we're calling dead frames different things.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

Getting that reply.

Just making sure we're calling dead frames different things.

Why are you focused on the semantics?

The movement is so slow that it appears to be dead frames and it feels like dead frames when controlling the fighter.

That’s is just as bad whether you call it dead frames or start up. The result is the same

[Solid_Altair]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

Why are you focused on the semantics?

The movement is so slow that it appears to be dead frames and it feels like dead frames when controlling the fighter.

That’s is just as bad whether you call it dead frames or start up. The result is the same

I'm focusing on semantic so that we don't focus on semantics. That is some zen s***!

I mean, I'm trying to make sure we don't argue semantics thinking we're argueing syntax. We're in a good spot, now.

I don't feel that and I think the feeling you feel is mostly a side effect from the old games illusion. And I know that sounds cray-cray. So, it's cool.

[YourFatZebra]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

I just hate that so many of the issues we're having with this game get met with explanation of in-game technical systems as if...

1. That solves the issue.

2. We didn't already know this.

3. It invalidates the initial complaint to just tell us what was programmed.

Had the same issue when I was talking about AI stamina not decaying properly and was met with "I didn't tune it that way".

Yeah I'm sure COD devs didn't intentionally create rocks that could teleport you beneath the map, didn't intentionally make the BAL an unstoppable god weapon. I'm sure no developer intends for these issues to pop up in their games, but they happen. Just denying that or trying to explain it away by throwing technical jargon and numbers around doesn't change the actual experience the players are having. Attempting to do so creates a feeling that the players experience doesn't even matter.

On topic: I can't move my head to save my life and my most used fighter is Anderson. "Predictive" head movement is just a joke phrase. Don't say that as if that's some sort of thing that actually exists. Dodging and leaning is by nature a reactionary action. In the sense that you wouldn't dodge a strike that isn't thrown, so attempting to preemptively move your head defeats the entire purpose of head movement, to dodge strikes when they are thrown.

If you're just bouncing your head all over the place you're gonna get nailed. If you're preemptively leaning one way, dude's just not gonna throw what he was gonna throw and instead he's gonna throw to that side you're leaning on. Hell, with the way that hook tracking is in this game you can lean to the opposite side and get hit with a hook from the other hand. Every time. All the time. It's like there's one acceptable angle you can dodge a strike from, and as long as you hit that you're good. Even if the strike still connects, if you did the dodge that way you seem to be invulnerable to it. Especially head kicks. God especially head kicks.

It just doesn't work in practice and it doesn't feel consistent. I have some instances where a character is in front of me not moving, leaning to one side and for some reason punches I throw from that side still don't connect. I'm talking uppercuts going right beside their ear instead of on their head even though I'm using that same arm. Hooks, straights, jabs, nothing. But then on my end, I'm constantly throwing my head into peoples hands. Some of this is my timing, but alot of this is the nature of the movement itself, how bouncy it feels and how slow it is to respond to your input.

Somebody had pointed out how all they were doing was ducking, that's basically been me after 100+ fights online. I spent alot of that time having to do side sway hooks to try and combat people who would do nothing but block and throw body shots. But eventually I just started ducking down and relying on uppercuts to actually win fights for a change, instead of landing 100+ strikes more than my opponent and still losing because he spent the whole fight blocking and throwing body shots. Which took none of his stamina and all of mine, so one shot and I'm dead.

I hate that I love the parts of this game that I do TBH. If it was a worse game, I could just get what money back I can and wash my hands of it. But considering parts of this game are done so greatly and I'm a lifelong MMA hardcore, I'm so torn. I just want this **** to work properly, and seeing complaints met with borderline mockery doesn't make me feel confident that the game will ever be "fixed".

[Phillyboi207]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

I'm focusing on semantic so that we don't focus on semantics. That is some zen s***!

I mean, I'm trying to make sure we don't argue semantics thinking we're argueing syntax. We're in a good spot, now.

I don't feel that and I think the feeling you feel is mostly a side effect from the old games illusion. And I know that sounds cray-cray. So, it's cool.

Has nothing to do with illusion. I’ve played plenty of other games and I know what responsiveness feels like. The head movement is made intentionally unresponsive and many think that is a poor design choice.

You do feel it and you have admitted it’s there. It’s the start up and you acknowledge it’s there and it’s purpose. Now you’re trying to dismiss everyone’s critique by saying it’s based on illusion.

The reality is you dont understand how head movement works so you call reactionary head movement an illusion. There are many people that dispute your opinion on the topic yet you’re still adament about being dismissive.

You can react to a strike based on it’s start up frames ( or irl it’s “tells”)once your muscle memory is there from practice. I’ve ever posted articles from trainers on the subject but it’s all dismissed by you.

In this game you cant do that with most of the cast which many think is a poor design decision. Every strike can move their head fast enough to dodge one strike. They just cant chain head movement fluidly or fast enough due to lack of footwork and coordination.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

I just hate that so many of the issues we're having with this game get met with explanation of in-game technical systems as if...

1. That solves the issue.

2. We didn't already know this.

3. It invalidates the initial complaint to just tell us what was programmed.

Had the same issue when I was talking about AI stamina not decaying properly and was met with "I didn't tune it that way".

Yeah I'm sure COD devs didn't intentionally create rocks that could teleport you beneath the map, didn't intentionally make the BAL an unstoppable god weapon. I'm sure no developer intends for these issues to pop up in their games, but they happen. Just denying that or trying to explain it away by throwing technical jargon and numbers around doesn't change the actual experience the players are having. Attempting to do so creates a feeling that the players experience doesn't even matter.

On topic: I can't move my head to save my life and my most used fighter is Anderson. "Predictive" head movement is just a joke phrase. Don't say that as if that's some sort of thing that actually exists. Dodging and leaning is by nature a reactionary action. In the sense that you wouldn't dodge a strike that isn't thrown, so attempting to preemptively move your head defeats the entire purpose of head movement, to dodge strikes when they are thrown.

If you're just bouncing your head all over the place you're gonna get nailed. If you're preemptively leaning one way, dude's just not gonna throw what he was gonna throw and instead he's gonna throw to that side you're leaning on. Hell, with the way that hook tracking is in this game you can lean to the opposite side and get hit with a hook from the other hand. Every time. All the time. It's like there's one acceptable angle you can dodge a strike from, and as long as you hit that you're good. Even if the strike still connects, if you did the dodge that way you seem to be invulnerable to it. Especially head kicks. God especially head kicks.

It just doesn't work in practice and it doesn't feel consistent. I have some instances where a character is in front of me not moving, leaning to one side and for some reason punches I throw from that side still don't connect. I'm talking uppercuts going right beside their ear instead of on their head even though I'm using that same arm. Hooks, straights, jabs, nothing. But then on my end, I'm constantly throwing my head into peoples hands. Some of this is my timing, but alot of this is the nature of the movement itself, how bouncy it feels and how slow it is to respond to your input.

Somebody had pointed out how all they were doing was ducking, that's basically been me after 100+ fights online. I spent alot of that time having to do side sway hooks to try and combat people who would do nothing but block and throw body shots. But eventually I just started ducking down and relying on uppercuts to actually win fights for a change, instead of landing 100+ strikes more than my opponent and still losing because he spent the whole fight blocking and throwing body shots. Which took none of his stamina and all of mine, so one shot and I'm dead.

I hate that I love the parts of this game that I do TBH. If it was a worse game, I could just get what money back I can and wash my hands of it. But considering parts of this game are done so greatly and I'm a lifelong MMA hardcore, I'm so torn. I just want this **** to work properly, and seeing complaints met with borderline mockery doesn't make me feel confident that the game will ever be "fixed".

Nah bro there’s no issue.

Your problems are just illusions.

[Serengeti1]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

There's so many head movement complaints for a reason. Can we accept that at least? Maybe the solution isn't what we think it is. Maybe it's several things. But there are so many complaints about the mechanic being sub-par for a reason.

[YourFatZebra]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

There's so many head movement complaints for a reason. Can we accept that at least? Maybe the solution isn't what we think it is. Maybe it's several things. But there are so many complaints about the mechanic being sub-par for a reason.

I kind of said the same thing in the body shots thread, or one of the few on that subject. Someone had suggested that you throw like, a hook and uppercut or something and that will stop it every time.

I was just like, "Man, I get that you mean well. But if this thing could be solved by something as simple as one combo someone would have thought of that by now."

Kind of the same thing here.
This isn't gonna be a simple solution or else we'd have stumbled onto what it is by now. It's like guns, McGregor's title, or any other controversial issue. Some donk is like "It's so simple" and it never is. But just acting like there is no solution and furthermore there is no PROBLEM does nothing. Bothers me to see that happen so regularly.

[Baakgwai]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

Head movement works if you use it correctly.... I get most of my knock outs using it.

[Supreme_Bananas]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

Head movement works if you use it correctly.... I get most of my knock outs using it.

Well, the only "correct" way I've found right now is purely offensive, swaying right in an opponent's face to wing those sway hooks. For outboxing, the input delay makes it pretty much useless

[Serengeti1]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

Well, the only "correct" way I've found right now is purely offensive, swaying right in an opponent's face to wing those sway hooks. For outboxing, the input delay makes it pretty much useless

People will say that it's possible to use it on the outside and it is. But it sucks. It's very unreliable. You can drill out straight punches way faster than you can move your head. And you can almost forget trying to dodge multiple on the outside. Again, is it possible? Yes. Is it way too difficult and clunky? Yes. I'm more than happy to play anybody who thinks head movement is actually useful on the outside because I'm tired of people saying things on here that have been contradictory to my experiences and others' with the game. We can record it.

This is where quick, minimal slips would be nice. But I'm not going to go over all that stuff again as it didn't get me anywhere with the gamechangers/devs before (no shade... just what happened).

Outside fighting has way too many limitations in general right now.

[Boiler569]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

Yea --- running forward and flicking the stick randomly, and spamming hooks/uppercuts each time without thinking, is definitely not 'predictive' head movement in most cases lol

Not saying that's not a valid tactic. Because it is, and 'in real life' fighters often will move their head then throw a strike without even looking ----- but that's much simpler than what we're talking about in this thread, in terms of truly being reacitve/'predictive' with head movement

[Phillyboi207]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

Yea --- running forward and flicking the stick randomly, and spamming hooks/uppercuts each time without thinking, is definitely not 'predictive' head movement in most cases lol

Not saying that's not a valid tactic. Because it is, and 'in real life' fighters often will move their head then throw a strike without even looking ----- but that's much simpler than what we're talking about in this thread, in terms of truly being reacitve/'predictive' with head movement

High level strikers dont really do that though. Usually grapplers who are faking level changes do that.

That’s my biggest issue. You cant display high level head movement with the current system.

[MMAFRoO]

Re: "predictive" head movement doesn't work

I just played FNC for the first time since this game came out and it only increased my frustration. I don't understand how someone with extensive time playing UFC 3 can believe the head movement is good, or that a FNC(ish) system wouldn't be better. I've tried looking at it from other perspectives, but I haven't seen many sound arguments to support what we have in UFC 3.

Is the disconnect that adding fluidity to the head movement would make the game look unrealistic? You don't want everyone doing Anderson Silva matrix moves? If that's what it is, I get the concern, but we're already not in a great place.

In FNC, head movement for me has never been about making a lot of big, pronounced movements. That's what usually gets you lit up anyways. What we're lacking is the ability to make those small, subtle movements. Being able to do these things is a major part of fighting and I know all of us understand that. In UFC 3, we are forced to eat shots in many situations that could potentially be avoided if only the head movement was better. This game is so close to getting there, but it will never be great if this path continues.

AMEN.

Right now every second/third novice on ranked gets away with simple Jab-Hook-Hook-Hook-Combo-Spam, cause you aren't able to time them correctly with a duck-uppercut counter. I mean maybe i can pull that off 1/5 times. But that shouldn't be the case. I wanna say that i am really good at reading my opponent's timing, rhythm, choice of weapons & patterns in general. And until these games aren't First Person wihtout any connection-related latency, where i can see my opponents shoulder-muscles twitch for a jab, i will always preach that one should rather anticipate, instead of react.
BUT the way it is now with that delay..it's a REAL MESS for the striking system, which is great overall.