So After Several Days With The Game... Is Top Mount OP?

[Serengeti1]

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For the record this guy is in the top 100 so nobody is bad here. I'm actually normally the one losing this way because I don't mess with the ground much but I figured it'd make more sense to post a clip of me doing it.

It almost feels like to me that if I can get 3 punches in top mount that have time in between that I can essentially finish the fight unless he goes for an arm trap. However, If a guy is varying the cadence of his punches in top mount and switching the arm he punches with... Arm traps are an extremely risky manoeuvre. Arm traps in UFC 2 were way too easy tho so it shouldn't go back to that.

I've seen several ideas on how to nerf top mount. Making it harder to get. Making it easier for the bottom guy to transition out. Making the block last longer. Do you guys think any adjustments would be beneficial in making it a less effective position right now?

[DaisukEasy]

Re: So After Several Days With The Game... Is Top Mount OP?

He didn't block long enough. Just let your block meter go all the way down before you transition.

Instead, he went for either a quick transition to catch you off guard (which never really works) or it was a failed attempt at an armtrap. Either way, seems to me like it happened because he got impatient, not because mount's OP.

Oh and he could've also turned his back.

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: So After Several Days With The Game... Is Top Mount OP?

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For the record this guy is in the top 100 so nobody is bad here. I'm actually normally the one losing this way because I don't mess with the ground much but I figured it'd make more sense to post a clip of me doing it.

It almost feels like to me that if I can get 3 punches in top mount that have time in between that I can essentially finish the fight unless he goes for an arm trap. However, If a guy is varying the cadence of his punches in top mount and switching the arm he punches with... Arm traps are an extremely risky manoeuvre. Arm traps in UFC 2 were way too easy tho so it shouldn't go back to that.

I've seen several ideas on how to nerf top mount. Making it harder to get. Making it easier for the bottom guy to transition out. Making the block last longer. Do you guys think any adjustments would be beneficial in making it a less effective position right now?

I'm not going to pretend to be an expect in grappling because I'm not.

But two observations.

1. The half guard escape is slower than the posture break, so I'm guessing you could have got to mount postured down had you done that transition instead.

2. The roll to backmount is very fast as well, and the half guard escape is faster form there than from mount postured up.

[ShogunsAssassin]

Re: So After Several Days With The Game... Is Top Mount OP?

Yes. I avoid it like the plague. If I get hit twice before I can arm trap I don't even get option to arm trap again as long as they don't throw modified punches.

Grappling advantage has to be given up when postured and committed to striking, unless there is a stamina advantage.


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[Serengeti1]

Re: So After Several Days With The Game... Is Top Mount OP?

He didn't block long enough. Just let your block meter go all the way down before you transition.

Instead, he went for either a quick transition to catch you off guard (which never really works) or it was a failed attempt at an armtrap. Either way, seems to me like it happened because he got impatient, not because mount's OP.

Oh and he could've also turned his back.

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I'm the McGregor player. I just tried this now but it didn't work. Seems rolling to your back is the only real option? I feel like denying is pretty easy from there too though.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: So After Several Days With The Game... Is Top Mount OP?

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I'm the McGregor player. I just tried this now but it didn't work. Seems rolling to your back is the only real option? I feel like denying is pretty easy from there too though.

Well Mcgregor vs Khabib is a huge mismatch so yeah you’d have to turn. And try to fake/block and then get back to half guard.

[fregatta]

Re: So After Several Days With The Game... Is Top Mount OP?

Top mount is pretty OP irl as well.

[MadChendez]

Re: So After Several Days With The Game... Is Top Mount OP?

I'm not going to pretend to be an expect in grappling because I'm not.

But two observations.

1. The half guard escape is slower than the posture break, so I'm guessing you could have got to mount postured down had you done that transition instead.

2. The roll to backmount is very fast as well, and the half guard escape is faster form there than from mount postured up.

From someone who trains BJJ I think it is fine as is.

Mount is a very strong position but one that is not overly difficult to achieve.

You can win fights in mount. But if you play smart you can also escape.

However I do think that there should be some modification to crucifix. Manly being that it should be only accessible via side saddle as this is how it would be set up in real life. I won't go into major detail about it here because it could drag on but feel free to pm me if you would like more info.

[Serengeti1]

Re: So After Several Days With The Game... Is Top Mount OP?

From someone who trains BJJ I think it is fine as is.

Mount is a very strong position but one that is not overly difficult to achieve.

You can win fights in mount. But if you play smart you can also escape.

However I do think that there should be some modification to crucifix. Manly being that it should be only accessible via side saddle as this is how it would be set up in real life. I won't go into major detail about it here because it could drag on but feel free to pm me if you would like more info.

BJJ with punches to the face?

How many times do you see a guy in MMA win a fight by taking down his opponent and finishing him in top mount in the modern era? It rarely ever happens at all. It's normally because a guy gets a knockdown and finishes the hurt opponent in top mount while he's disorientated.

[TheGentlemanGhost]

Re: So After Several Days With The Game... Is Top Mount OP?

People really need to get UFC Fight Pass and watch some of the fights these past few years. I'm definitely not trying to plug UFC FP lol but man people really haven't seen the huge handful of fights where fighters are slipping out of Full Mount and even sweeping to get top position from being in FM lately. The MMA game (IRL) has changed drastically in just the past few years, and full mount has not being that powerful lately. I've seen countless FM escapes watching recent MMA/UFC fights these days. It's pretty crazy how night and day it's been just from looking at UFC fights in the earlier 2000s to now when it comes to this. But most of your real life finishes from full mount have actually been from submission if we are talking about guys simply getting wrestled to the ground and not knocked down.

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: So After Several Days With The Game... Is Top Mount OP?

The thing I wanted to add most to the grappling this year was quarter guard.

I felt it would have really help balance out mount a lot more.

But to do that, we would have had to give up the single leg and double leg against the cage.

Quarter guard isn't as exciting a feature to market, so we went with what we have.

But I still really wish we could add quarter guard.

[MadChendez]

Re: So After Several Days With The Game... Is Top Mount OP?

BJJ with punches to the face?

How many times do you see a guy in MMA win a fight by taking down his opponent and finishing him in top mount in the modern era? It rarely ever happens at all. It's normally because a guy gets a knockdown and finishes the hurt opponent in top mount while he's disorientated.

Actually yes we do combat jujitsu sparring with open palm strikes.

It happens more often than I think you realise.

With that said what tends to happen more often is the person on the bottom rolls to their back after taking a series of shots in mount and thus give up their neck for the finish hence the finish not technically being from full mount.

Moreover the UFC isn't the only MMA organization around. Watch regional shows and some of the smaller organizations such as ONE FC, Bellator, WFA, IPL etc. And you will see a lot more mount finishes.

So to your sarcastic response, yes this does happen irl in the modern era. And yes i do have real life experience. I challenge you to let someone mount you and land strikes while you try to get out...It's not easy nor should it be in the game.

Finally look at the scoring system in jits. Each position is scored based on the ability to cause damage via strikes even though strikes aren't allowed in comp. Mount is the second highest scoring position other than back mount. Having mount as a strong position is very justified whether you agree or not.

[fitch is my homeboy]

Re: So After Several Days With The Game... Is Top Mount OP?

Full mount acts as this sort of end game grappling position in UFC 3 but it doesn't always happen that way in real life. We see fighters get out of full mounts every event. When you're fresh or sweaty it's hard to lock that spot down and guys can buck you off sometimes instantly. At the same time when you've warn your opponent down you can suck the life out of them just being heavy on top.


I don't think the game reflects that range. If you're at a stat disadvantage there's little hope of a quick minor transition. I've yet to see any fighter in game transition to standing from full mount. Posturing up and throwing everything as full power bombs should somewhat negate your ability to hold the position. It should also drain your stamina. Fighters punching themselves out from a dominate spot and then being weak over the next many minutes is absolutely a thing.

[Abstrakt fists]

Re: So After Several Days With The Game... Is Top Mount OP?

People really need to get UFC Fight Pass and watch some of the fights these past few years. I'm definitely not trying to plug UFC FP lol but man people really haven't seen the huge handful of fights where fighters are slipping out of Full Mount and even sweeping to get top position from being in FM lately. The MMA game (IRL) has changed drastically in just the past few years, and full mount has not being that powerful lately. I've seen countless FM escapes watching recent MMA/UFC fights these days. It's pretty crazy how night and day it's been just from looking at UFC fights in the earlier 2000s to now when it comes to this. But most of your real life finishes from full mount have actually been from submission if we are talking about guys simply getting wrestled to the ground and not knocked down.

This is actually what I was thinking. 10 years ago full mount was game over but these days people rarely even go for it because it is easily defended. Modern MMA the place to be is side control, it is easier to maintain and gives good striking and submission options and gives little leverage to the guy on bottom. Full mount is used more for stalling than anything else.

[RetractedMonkey]

Re: So After Several Days With The Game... Is Top Mount OP?

However I do think that there should be some modification to crucifix. Manly being that it should be only accessible via side saddle as this is how it would be set up in real life. I won't go into major detail about it here because it could drag on but feel free to pm me if you would like more info.

This is a great idea. Make it so you have to go to side saddle first. Crucifix is harder than mount to set up.

As for the topic question: no. I know that’s funny coming from me considering I made a topic just like this, but mount over all is not OP.

What really happened was the defensive options were nerfed. Half guard transition only works now when the defender has good GA, stamina, and the opponent has lower stamina. I don’t like this change. However, I like that back mount has now been given some utility. Rolling over is your best defensive option now. The half guard roll from there is a fast transition. But, I like to stall and wait for punches so I can shake them off the back. Back mount needs a lot of work still (especially because people can stall from there and reset the standup timer) and I like that it was buffed, but not at the expense of the half guard transition.

As another note, arm traps are almost entirely useless in mount. They have to be wailing on you over and over with the same side arm for the risk-reward to swing in your favor. If you miss an arm trap, there is a good possibility you will be KOed. Currently, I’m okay with this.



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