The Input Lag on the game...

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  • GameplayDevUFC
    Former EA Sports UFC Gameplay Developer
    • Jun 2014
    • 2830

    #106
    Re: The Input Lag on the game...

    Originally posted by Serengeti95
    Not just HW to clarify. The lower the weight division is... The more responsive and fluid they feel. There's just a really big contrasting difference betweem SW and HW. Just worth establishing that completely. I've heard many people say they much prefer the lower weight divisions for this reason. Selfishly, I'd obviously want input lag to be reduced by altering the start up frames... But I actually think the majority would be in favour of that as well. The key is finding the right balance.
    Start up frames are different for every weight class, and vary by fighter depending on strike speed stats.

    If we want to water down the effects of both of those things, it would be trivial to say bring HW's down to match LW's.

    But the HW's will strike at the same speed as LW's.

    And I don't think that adds a lot in terms of realism and variety of play.

    Comment

    • Serengeti1
      MVP
      • Mar 2016
      • 1720

      #107
      Re: The Input Lag on the game...

      Originally posted by GameplayDevUFC
      Start up frames are different for every weight class, and vary by fighter depending on strike speed stats.

      If we want to water down the effects of both of those things, it would be trivial to say bring HW's down to match LW's.

      But the HW's will strike at the same speed as LW's.

      And I don't think that adds a lot in terms of realism and variety of play.
      Hm right. All I can say is it felt a lot better in UFC 2. Bearing in mind you know about all of the things under the hood... you should know why. I'm just wondering if getting back to that is possible somehow or at least improving the situation

      Comment

      • GameplayDevUFC
        Former EA Sports UFC Gameplay Developer
        • Jun 2014
        • 2830

        #108
        Re: The Input Lag on the game...

        Originally posted by Serengeti95
        Hm right. All I can say is it felt a lot better in UFC 2. Bearing in mind you know about all of the things under the hood... you should know why. I'm just wondering if getting back to that is possible somehow or at least improving the situation
        If I can get a better handle on what the situation is, sure.

        I'm not making this up, I'm happy with the feel of the game personally. I don't ever experience any of the things people are talking about in this thread, except for online latency.

        But I understand how everything works, so that could bias my view on the game.

        If someone can show me something concrete that seems wrong, I'm 100% going to jump on it right away.

        Comment

        • GameplayDevUFC
          Former EA Sports UFC Gameplay Developer
          • Jun 2014
          • 2830

          #109
          Re: The Input Lag on the game...

          And for the record I think UFC 3 feels better than UFC 2.

          UFC 2 feels sluggish to me in all respects except for the hyperactive locomotion speed which makes range management near impossible.

          Comment

          • GameplayDevUFC
            Former EA Sports UFC Gameplay Developer
            • Jun 2014
            • 2830

            #110
            Re: The Input Lag on the game...

            And and things like kick start up frames.

            But having those longer is the only way to have big power on them without screwing up the balance bigtime.

            Hence why UFC 2 head kicks do less damage than UFC 3 hooks.

            Comment

            • Serengeti1
              MVP
              • Mar 2016
              • 1720

              #111
              Re: The Input Lag on the game...

              I don't find that there's an issue with the kicks specifically or anything.

              But I've honestly played the game for a long time now so I've kinda gotten used to how it feels. I still wish it was a bit more reactive and less predictive than it currently is (which is a result of the perceived input lag).

              Idk though man. I'd just like things to happen faster on screen when I tell them to and it's particularly noticable at HW. I didn't get that feeling from UFC 2. It may have still exsited but it didn't feel as pronounced.

              If anyone else has any input here it'd help because I don't think I'm crazy. As far as online latency... Let's keep stuff like that out of the discussion because it just adds confusion.

              Comment

              • Serengeti1
                MVP
                • Mar 2016
                • 1720

                #112
                Re: The Input Lag on the game...

                I think a big part of it is the moving strikes and moving head movement. It's slower. Quite a lot slower than UFC 2 strikes and head movement. At HW it's even more pronounced so everything feels real sluggish and behind. I think that's the problem. I think that's where the input lag complaints come from. The ones unrelated to online latency.

                Comment

                • GameplayDevUFC
                  Former EA Sports UFC Gameplay Developer
                  • Jun 2014
                  • 2830

                  #113
                  Re: The Input Lag on the game...

                  Originally posted by Serengeti95
                  I think a big part of it is the moving strikes and moving head movement. It's slower. Quite a lot slower than UFC 2 strikes and head movement. At HW it's even more pronounced so everything feels real sluggish and behind. I think that's the problem. I think that's where the input lag complaints come from. The ones unrelated to online latency.
                  Moving strikes are intentionally slower than standing strikes for balance reasons.

                  It could very well be that most people are always aggressively throwing moving strikes, so they only ever feel the slower version of the strike.

                  It might be possible to tighten up the moving strikes at HW a bit.

                  I'd have to run some numbers though to make sure it didn't do anything bad.

                  Comment

                  • Morgan Monkman
                    North of 60
                    • Apr 2016
                    • 1385

                    #114
                    Re: The Input Lag on the game...

                    Id suggest looking at the straight. Its to slow
                    PSNID: B_A_N_E

                    Comment

                    • Serengeti1
                      MVP
                      • Mar 2016
                      • 1720

                      #115
                      Re: The Input Lag on the game...

                      Originally posted by GameplayDevUFC
                      Moving strikes are intentionally slower than standing strikes for balance reasons.

                      It could very well be that most people are always aggressively throwing moving strikes, so they only ever feel the slower version of the strike.

                      It might be possible to tighten up the moving strikes at HW a bit.

                      I'd have to run some numbers though to make sure it didn't do anything bad.
                      Yes, absolutely. A lot of people strike while moving often. Me included. I'm almost positive that's where these complaints are coming from actually. I also think it's worth noting that this still effects other weight classes. I think the moving strikes and head movement could do with a bit of a speed boost but lessen the damage. This would also help the complaints about moving strikes doing too much damage at the same time. Two birds. One stone. What do you think?

                      Comment

                      • Mr_Cool_Ice
                        Rookie
                        • Nov 2017
                        • 173

                        #116
                        Re: The Input Lag on the game...

                        Originally posted by GameplayDevUFC
                        And and things like kick start up frames.

                        But having those longer is the only way to have big power on them without screwing up the balance bigtime.

                        Hence why UFC 2 head kicks do less damage than UFC 3 hooks.
                        Just to be clear, are the startup frames the time it takes for the animation to start once a button is registered? Or is the time for the strike to connect, once the strike animation has started?

                        Thanks

                        Comment

                        • bcruise
                          Hall Of Fame
                          • Mar 2004
                          • 23274

                          #117
                          Re: The Input Lag on the game...

                          Originally posted by Mr_Cool_Ice
                          Just to be clear, are the startup frames the time it takes for the animation to start once a button is registered? Or is the time for the strike to connect, once the strike animation has started?

                          Thanks
                          In fighting game terms, "startup" refers to the frames of an animation before the move becomes "active" (i.e it can hit your opponent). So it's your latter explanation.

                          It's also the counter window, which you are talking about lowering if you speed up the startup frames. So, balance issues all around, and a very slippery slope that you're dealing with here.

                          Comment

                          • Mr_Cool_Ice
                            Rookie
                            • Nov 2017
                            • 173

                            #118
                            Re: The Input Lag on the game...

                            Originally posted by bcruise
                            In fighting game terms, "startup" refers to the frames of an animation before the move becomes "active" (i.e it can hit your opponent). So it's your latter explanation.

                            It's also the counter window, which you are talking about lowering if you speed up the startup frames. So, balance issues all around, and a very slippery slope that you're dealing with here.
                            Thanks for the explanation. I'm wondering if people are feeling latency from when the button is pressed to when the strike animation starts. I'll have to test this when I get home.

                            Comment

                            • MMA Damage
                              Banned
                              • Feb 2018
                              • 161

                              #119
                              Re: The Input Lag on the game...

                              Originally posted by GameplayDevUFC
                              Moving strikes are intentionally slower than standing strikes for balance reasons.

                              It could very well be that most people are always aggressively throwing moving strikes, so they only ever feel the slower version of the strike.

                              It might be possible to tighten up the moving strikes at HW a bit.

                              I'd have to run some numbers though to make sure it didn't do anything bad.

                              UFC 2 was much more responsive from command to input, although still wasn't great. Why not keep those numbers and then just compensate a difference for the moving strikes?


                              In EA MMA they had a stat cap for weight classes instead. For example a Lightweights max power was I believe 70 or 75, while Heavyweights can have 100 power. Clearly the hud was taken from EA MMA, why not the damage system too. I remember sometimes a Heavyweight fight could end with the very first shot landed. That is mma, one shot can change or end a fight abruptly.



                              Edit: from another thread . I wanted you to look at this.


                              Was trying to find picture of stats from EA MMA and found this. Its not perfect but way better than what we have now.


                              We have a stat for

                              Punches
                              Punch combos
                              Kicks
                              Kick combos
                              Left hand power
                              Right hand power
                              Left foot power
                              Right foot power
                              Hand speed
                              Punch range
                              Kick speed
                              Kick range
                              Movement speed

                              And they had a cap at each weight class. Like only a Heavyweight can have 100 power.

                              Is it impossible to change the way stats are at all in this game already?
                              Last edited by MMA Damage; 03-02-2018, 05:17 AM.

                              Comment

                              • lahonda
                                Rookie
                                • Nov 2017
                                • 147

                                #120
                                Re: The Input Lag on the game...

                                GPD, i really dont get some of the posts here.
                                I see YOU personaly cant do anything about the online lag. Got it. Me personaly sayed, sure you can do but its a question of how much it has to cost and i doubt theres money to write a new netcode then its still the EA UFC1 netcode.


                                You told us, you need something concret what the problems are and i think i delivered it. Sergenti95 missunderstood me:
                                The BW/Flyweight division feels in oline fights for ME (my own experience) same as i would play the HW in the offline mode. So the inputs are delayed that much. The start and end frames of the strikes are soooo slow and late. I dont have to talk about the HW in online i think, then those feel sometimes like this:

                                Free image hosting and sharing service, upload pictures, photo host. Offers integration solutions for uploading images to forums.



                                So im not saying the frames ARE the same, i just feel those as same if m online.
                                I will post later again a video where you see clearly the delay in online of doing a normal jab/staight with 1000ms delay. But then again its online and theres nothing that can be done to improve it beside stopping playing the game.


                                I really dont complaining anything about the movesets, the stats, the "spam" then every action has a reaction and we just have to learn how to counter the bad things.
                                So my personal wish ppl would compare less about every single move but instead focus mor on the quality of what is already here and improve the online experience.
                                Last edited by lahonda; 03-02-2018, 05:42 AM.
                                He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.

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