Balance means nothing when the game is incomplete

[1212headkick]

Re: Balance means nothing when the game is incomplete

I have my fare share of complaints about the game, but GPD isn't the only dev working on the game. Also he has done a good job at listening to the community, the only problem is that the game is missing so much it's impossible just to "patch it in". Also you can't expect one person to create something on the level of UD3.

what we wanted was known before release gta does it all the time

[MysticJack541]

Re: Balance means nothing when the game is incomplete

what we wanted was known before release gta does it all the time

That may be true, but GTA is on a whole nother level when it comes to devolpment team, budget and time it takes to make. It's not a fair comparison.

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[1212headkick]

Re: Balance means nothing when the game is incomplete

That may be true, but GTA is on a whole nother level when it comes to devolpment team, budget and time it takes to make. It's not a fair comparison.

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ea is larger than rockstar

[iHazCode]

Re: Balance means nothing when the game is incomplete

I don't often disagree with GamePlayDev as I to some degree understand what they are trying to juggle from both a business and technology standpoint. That said I couldn't possibly disagree more with things like seated cage position or struggle that occurs when shooting for a takedown being flash over function.

These are absolutely function and I won't bore anyone with going into detail on why, but a struggle in a takedown means something is happening beyond the point of the shoot, and the initial attempt to deny. In fact, arguably MORE is happening after:

* Identify the shoot opportunity
* Shoot
* Gain control and begin the takedown

everything after that point is missing our use case, and the missing portions are arguably the most important parts of a successful/un-successful takedown in MMA.

Maybe I don't understand what he was getting at, but at the end of the day, as much as I like UFC 3, I feel it's ALL about flash over function. Clearly a lot of time/energy was put into the mocap and high resolution models. Personally though, I'd prefer graphics more on par with something like UD3, but with 3x the depth of what we have today. Including all the little things that development currently things is flash over function. I'd have to guess there are at least one or two people out there that feel the same.

Frankly I'm somewhat worried now. If the two examples given are considered flash over function, I couldn't imagine how many "little" things are then entirely off the radar. As the two examples from this thread are pretty important, however there are hundreds of other details which are far from flash...

Truly concerned about the vision for this title for the first time since the initial release (in 2013?) at this point.

[MysticJack541]

Re: Balance means nothing when the game is incomplete

ea is larger than rockstar

EA UFC is on the lower end of the spectrum when it comes to priority. Games like FIFA, Madden, Battlefront are the big boys of EA. GTA is literally one of the biggest franchises in all of gaming therefore gets treated as such. Anyway I'll quit rambling I don't want to detract this thread.

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[Windtear]

Re: Balance means nothing when the game is incomplete

Since i can't post new threads, i will just leave my thoughts regards to UFC3's current state here.

It seems you think striking in this game is somewhat "balanced" and only ground game has problem. Well it's far from the truth, neither system has been improved and you have more players complaining than ever

Majority of problems surrounding UFC 3 is due to the fast food mentally from dev team, as any high ranked fighter would know by now, the grand meta is sway counter contest, 2-3 gate submissions or exploiting the broken stamina drain system in ground games.

Well, apparently dev team behind this game, ufc1,2 & fight night champion believes their awkward head movements represents the highest level of MMA & boxing, as long as you get lucky with a counter from sway(not timing based) then you don't need to master any fundamental of MMAto success. All of these are the recipe for guaranteed fast victory and they don't take much skills to execute.

After the patch, I lost many matches that I absolutely dominate, and won many matches i shouldn't be winning, and there's no joy or sense accomplishment whatever the match result is.

About striking, all the good stuff about MMA i.e all the fundamentals, punch, kicks, distance control, timing, take down etc which used to build up your advantage in the entire match can be easily overpowered by a single sway counter or any broken system mentioned above

I'm a ranked match player, swing between division 4 and 5, I wish EA Sports UFC will evolve to a seriously E sport title someday, but @ current state, the balance is completely out of windows, I still believe launch state UFC3 almost had everything right regarding striking.

Imaging you boardcast a high level UFC 3 fights from pro e-competitors, and majority of the match you have 2 fighters awkwardly sway/lunge forward with nearly every strike attempt.....

[lbnt149]

Re: Balance means nothing when the game is incomplete

I pick Paul Felder and get matched up with Khabib, the fights over if it goes to the ground if i'm fighting a competent player.

So, realistic then? In that case you should be looking to avoid going to the ground.

I agree with some of your post, it would be much better if they're were more differentiation between strikes and animations for each fighter, and aye there is loads needing done to clinch etc, but the one thing they are getting right is more realistic stats having a bearing on the game

[Dave_S]

Re: Balance means nothing when the game is incomplete

if there was stand and bang online that would of satisfied alot of people

And it would make me cry.

I'd have stand and bang available online on weekends on rare occasions, maybe tourney with smaller prizes like xbox and autographed something also.

[MysticJack541]

Re: Balance means nothing when the game is incomplete

So, realistic then? In that case you should be looking to avoid going to the ground.

I agree with some of your post, it would be much better if they're were more differentiation between strikes and animations for each fighter, and aye there is loads needing done to clinch etc, but the one thing they are getting right is more realistic stats having a bearing on the game

Well there has to be a balance between the two, realism vs competitive play. In real life would Khabib more than likely maul Paul Felder on the ground? The answer is yes. But for the sake of the game, there has to be a fighting chance for a player at a stat disadvantage, or else people or just going to be picking top rated grapplers (like they are right now). Theres a reason the majority of the top ranked players are grapplers who pick Khabib, GSP, Romero, basically anyone with a 93+ grappling overall. Now on the feet you can still compete and do well even at a stat disadvantage in EA UFC 3.

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[lbnt149]

Re: Balance means nothing when the game is incomplete

Well there has to be a balance between the two, realism vs competitive play. In real life would Khabib more than likely maul Paul Felder on the ground? The answer is yes. But for the sake of the game, there has to be a fighting chance for a player at a stat disadvantage, or else people or just going to be picking top rated grapplers (like they are right now). Theres a reason the majority of the top ranked players are grapplers who pick Khabib, GSP, Romero, basically anyone with a 93+ grappling overall. Now on the feet you can still compete and do well even at a stat disadvantage in EA UFC 3.

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Why should it be balanced? Go someone who is good on the feet then if you dont want to go to ground

You will spark out Khabib with a good stand up fighter. It is literally a true representation of what would happen in real life should you fight Khabib. Why should they be balanced?

Should Man City be made worse at attacking in fifa because they're too strong for a team like Burnley? Unless of course you play to Burnleys strengths, keep it tight, soak up pressure and hit them on the break. Ie, like real life

[rabbitfistssaipailo]

Re: Balance means nothing when the game is incomplete

Why should it be balanced? Go someone who is good on the feet then if you dont want to go to ground

You will spark out Khabib with a good stand up fighter. It is literally a true representation of what would happen in real life should you fight Khabib. Why should they be balanced?

Should Man City be made worse at attacking in fifa because they're too strong for a team like Burnley? Unless of course you play to Burnleys strengths, keep it tight, soak up pressure and hit them on the break. Ie, like real life

Man city ....[emoji1]

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[MysticJack541]

Re: Balance means nothing when the game is incomplete

Why should it be balanced? Go someone who is good on the feet then if you dont want to go to ground

You will spark out Khabib with a good stand up fighter. It is literally a true representation of what would happen in real life should you fight Khabib. Why should they be balanced?

Should Man City be made worse at attacking in fifa because they're too strong for a team like Burnley? Unless of course you play to Burnleys strengths, keep it tight, soak up pressure and hit them on the break. Ie, like real life

Well for one even if i'm a higher rated striker the advantage I have on the feet is miniscule compared to the advantage Khabib (or any really high grapple stat fighter) has on the ground, because the stats don't matter nearly as much on the feet which is a good thing. There has been plenty of times where I used Kevin Lee to knock the goofy out of Edson or Conor players. The reason I refrane from picking guys with grappling overalls below 90 is because if I get matched up with Khabib, Jacare, GSP, and they grapple i'm at a severe disadvantage.

I think a player like Martial Mind is a perfect example, Martial could easily pick Khabib and absolutley bodybag people on the feet with him, and if it goes to the ground it will be so much easier to defend transitions. But lets say Martial picks Paul Felder and runs into Khabib, Martial is still gonna whoop him on the feet, but the Khabib user will be good enough to survive until he gets a TD, in which case basically means the fight is over because at that point stats overtake skill.

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[MacGowan]

Re: Balance means nothing when the game is incomplete

Look, it's very simple. The clinch and grappling is severly underdeveloped. If the next patches coming out focuses on MORE striking balance, then yeah I too believe the focus is wrong.

[iceberg3445]

Balance means nothing when the game is incomplete

See I see it the opposite way. You're looking for flash over function, especially if you consider UD3 a better game.



Why add something like a seated cage position which is one of the top requests I see often when comparing us to UD3?



It wouldn't add to the function at all.



And the complaints about a struggle during takedowns? From a functional standpoint you already have it. You're looking for the flash to sell it better.



I can totally understand why you'd want that. Better immersion over balance.



But I feel you got your terminology backwards.

I see what you’re saying, especially about seated against cage pos., but the main thing I’ve been making noise about is the clinch gameplay, or lack thereof. Definitely not flashy part of MMA, but incredibly functional, and really missing from the game.

I do think you could lump chainable takedowns into this (which I think is what a lot of people mean when they say takedown struggle) as it is an important element of MMA.

Ultimately, the main gameplay FUNCTION missing (for me) is the bridge between stand up and ground gameplay. The clinch is stuck in 2014, and takedowns are too simple to be enjoyable/realistic.


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[Phillyboi207]

Re: Balance means nothing when the game is incomplete

See I see it the opposite way. You're looking for flash over function, especially if you consider UD3 a better game.

Why add something like a seated cage position which is one of the top requests I see often when comparing us to UD3?

It wouldn't add to the function at all.

And the complaints about a struggle during takedowns? From a functional standpoint you already have it. You're looking for the flash to sell it better.

I can totally understand why you'd want that. Better immersion over balance.

But I feel you got your terminology backwards.

Wow

That’s very disappointing to read.

1) Seated cage adds another layer to grappling including the balance of it. Being able to drag a guy from the cage to seated, then possibly all the way or watch him get back to the cage. It’s part of “breaking” someone. Nothing is worse than being so close to being free yet at the same time still being locked down. Seated cage is that slither of hope for someone mauled in grappling.

2)PRETTY PLEASE explain the struggle TD part. TDs are currently binary. There’s no struggle, no fight. Go check some of the threads complaining about wrestling. The “struggle” is the most important part and could be added upon for different finish variations.

Here’s a video of Daniel Cormier explaining what’s happening during a struggle as he goes for a single leg. Go to 9:45

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-uu_ziBD_40

Three different options, two of which were defended. Something like that added is everything but flash. Imagine going for a single leg, it’s defended late so you get standing single(already in game) and then you can go through the options Cormier did. Same could happen with double legs if late denials went into over/under clinch.

This reminds me the current sway system. You guys believe smaller sways were just aesthetics and the current sway was best for functionality. That’s just not true. Stripping depth and trying to reduce everything to simple yes/no solutions for the sake of balance gives it no real substance.