Stats play far too large a role in grappling

[Freshly Baked Gregg]

I know this has been brought up before, but I feel this issue needs its own thread.

I think stats should play into grappling the same way they do in striking in that the better grappler from a player skill point of view will most likely win.

Also while I’m at it, I feel top transitions have far too small a window outside of full guard. Half guard to side control is ridiculously fast by default and that sort of speed should be built up by denying and GNP first. Maybe I’m wrong and it’s just the Australian internet but I thought I’d put that out there.

Here is what prompted me to start this thread: https://youtu.be/MK2QFVjLKSY


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[Dave_S]

Re: Stats play far too large a role in grappling

I feel like all them fakes should have a stamina penalty.

[Freshly Baked Gregg]

Re: Stats play far too large a role in grappling

I feel like all them fakes should have a stamina penalty.

Yep. And it’s very unfair that fakes are broken on half guard bottom. Plays into the hands of the top player even more.


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[ShogunsAssassin]

Re: Stats play far too large a role in grappling

I avoid grappling exchanges like the plague because of this. I'd like to mix it up but it's so broken it's not even worth the risk to me.


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[Raggo packer]

Re: Stats play far too large a role in grappling

I know this has been brought up before, but I feel this issue needs its own thread.

I think stats should play into grappling the same way they do in striking in that the better grappler from a player skill point of view will most likely win.

Also while I’m at it, I feel top transitions have far too small a window outside of full guard. Half guard to side control is ridiculously fast by default and that sort of speed should be built up by denying and GNP first. Maybe I’m wrong and it’s just the Australian internet but I thought I’d put that out there.

Here is what prompted me to start this thread: https://youtu.be/MK2QFVjLKSY


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So you basically want equalised stats??

I think better grapplers should have quicker transitions and better all round ground game, & better strikers should have better standup. I don’t see what’s wrong with that?


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[Freshly Baked Gregg]

Re: Stats play far too large a role in grappling

So you basically want equalised stats??

I think better grapplers should have quicker transitions and better all round ground game, & better strikers should have better standup. I don’t see what’s wrong with that?


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[OPSPunk]

Re: Stats play far too large a role in grappling

I like the stats. They make fighters feel individualize. Also keep in mind all fights start standing so if you are primarily a grappler or grappling is your main advantage (maia, Khabib, Assencia, Cormier, Weidman, Jacre etc) When they finally get you to the ground it needs to mean something. Especially given how difficult this game makes getting takedowns.

[OPSPunk]

Re: Stats play far too large a role in grappling

Yep. And it’s very unfair that fakes are broken on half guard bottom. Plays into the hands of the top player even more.


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The answer to everything isnt a stamina penalty. The answer is make it like real life. In real life is that type of bait and switch tiring. Not to most and definitely not to elite grapplers. I think that it works fine. If you know they are faking dont bit and block or reverse to the otherside. Its not difficult.

Maybe a very small stamina penalty is ok. maybe a slightly bigger one for those with weaker grappling skills. But nothing too crazy. Faking should be more tiring on the bottom because it is in real life. If faking cost stamina it should have a corresponding buff to grapple advantage, because that is the impact of them in real life. But I think the stamina and GA impacts should be small.

[Freshly Baked Gregg]

Re: Stats play far too large a role in grappling

The answer to everything isnt a stamina penalty. The answer is make it like real life. In real life is that type of bait and switch tiring. Not to most and definitely not to elite grapplers. I think that it works fine. If you know they are faking dont bit and block or reverse to the otherside. Its not difficult.



Maybe a very small stamina penalty is ok. maybe a slightly bigger one for those with weaker grappling skills. But nothing too crazy. Faking should be more tiring on the bottom because it is in real life. If faking cost stamina it should have a corresponding buff to grapple advantage, because that is the impact of them in real life. But I think the stamina and GA impacts should be small.

Faking, ideally, shouldn’t be a thing at all. It doesn’t exist in real life.


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[MacGowan]

Re: Stats play far too large a role in grappling

Faking, ideally, shouldn’t be a thing at all. It doesn’t exist in real life.

Faking in clinch and on the ground exists very much in real life

[OPSPunk]

Re: Stats play far too large a role in grappling

Faking in clinch and on the ground exists very much in real life

Agreed. Its more subtle irl. But it exists.

[Freshly Baked Gregg]

Re: Stats play far too large a role in grappling

Faking in clinch and on the ground exists very much in real life

Certainly not the way it works in this game. You know what I mean.


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[RetractedMonkey]

Re: Stats play far too large a role in grappling

Faking in clinch and on the ground exists very much in real life

Not in the way that we have it now. You will never see someone start up a pass to the left 2 times real quick and then pass to the right. “Faking” transitions in real life is something oftentimes imperceptible. You aren’t even going to know the guy is doing it.

I think a better idea for the moment (since we are obviously stuck with this system for now) is to allow more transitions to be faked on the bottom. Right now the top player has much better perks and stats than the bottom one in any given situation. But, the top player has a host of transitions that can all be faked, giving them an even more massive advantage.

I would make things like the back take from half guard bottom fakeable. Or the getups from sprawl. Things that still keep the top players at an advantage, but give the bottom guy just that little extra power to do something with and make it less static.


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[Raggo packer]

Re: Stats play far too large a role in grappling

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I did, hence the reply. You want it to be down to player skill, and not the fighters skill... but quicker transitions due to fighters skill will affect player skill, because transitions will be quicker etc, so maybe you just need to explain your post more clearly.


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[Freshly Baked Gregg]

Re: Stats play far too large a role in grappling

I did, hence the reply. You want it to be down to player skill, and not the fighters skill... but quicker transitions due to fighters skill will affect player skill, because transitions will be quicker etc, so maybe you just need to explain your post more clearly.


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Effects caused by stats should be minimal and only provide a slight advantage. If I’m denying everything, regardless if it’s Khabib on top or whatever, he should be suffering only a bit less than anyone else.


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