Stats play far too large a role in grappling

[Kingslayer04]

Re: Stats play far too large a role in grappling

If a guy like Cormier, Romero, Khabib, Rockhold, Cain gets on top of you you absolutely should be at a disadvantage and possibly lose the fight. Just like Khabib should if he stands with.. anyone, basically. You don't want to be on your back (or on the ground) against these guys, period. And if the stats and perks reflect that accurately - brilliant. Otherwise why should they bother creating models and trying to replicate the UFC experience, they could just release a red figure and a blue figure with no stats to speak of, right?

[Freshly Baked Gregg]

Stats play far too large a role in grappling

If a guy like Cormier, Romero, Khabib, Rockhold, Cain gets on top of you you absolutely should be at a disadvantage and possibly lose the fight. Just like Khabib should if he stands with.. anyone, basically. You don't want to be on your back (or on the ground) against these guys, period. And if the stats and perks reflect that accurately - brilliant. Otherwise why should they bother creating models and trying to replicate the UFC experience, they could just release a red figure and a blue figure with no stats to speak of, right?

Yeah but just because, in real life, Khabib has trained a **** ton, doesn’t mean that he’s assisted by magical forces that prevents anyone on the bottom from surviving. Khabib still has to perform techniques.

This is why I don’t like McGregor’s high power rating. Even McGregor said himself he’s not overly powerful. It should be down to the player to use their brains to do well, not rely on stats.

Edit: Of course Khabib should be better on top of, say, McGregor than Barboza would be, but if the person on the bottom is simply better at the game, they should win and not lose due to a **** player who picked a fighter with good stats.


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[Phillyboi207]

Re: Stats play far too large a role in grappling

Effects caused by stats should be minimal and only provide a slight advantage. If I’m denying everything, regardless if it’s Khabib on top or whatever, he should be suffering only a bit less than anyone else.


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That’s one of the worst ideas I’ve ever heard

I guess power/stamina shouldnt mean anything either. What’s the point of move levels as well? Every fighter should be the same height with the same reach.

Go play any other sport OR fighting game. There are tiers and different fighters/teams/athletes play differently

[Raggo packer]

Stats play far too large a role in grappling

Effects caused by stats should be minimal and only provide a slight advantage. If I’m denying everything, regardless if it’s Khabib on top or whatever, he should be suffering only a bit less than anyone else.


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Yea I agree with this to a degree, but powerful ground guys should be powerful ground guys in game too. How else could they make them more powerful on the ground, to simulate real life, without the stats having a decent effect?

It is frustrating as hell when you’ve got a good grappler playing with a khabib or Cormier, but I imagine it’s even more frustrating in real life against them guys!


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[neyney00]

Re: Stats play far too large a role in grappling

I like it the way it is. A good Conor player can deal with Khabib pretty easily. Khabib is horrible on the feet.

You already said you are not good in ranked. No disrespect but it seems like you just need more time with the game to get better. Stats should matter and they do. This all is down to a player issue not a game issue. These type of threads hurt the community and is something the devs still have to read to see if there is any merit to it.

[angel182x]

Re: Stats play far too large a role in grappling

Yeah but just because, in real life, Khabib has trained a **** ton, doesn’t mean that he’s assisted by magical forces that prevents anyone on the bottom from surviving. Khabib still has to perform techniques.

This is why I don’t like McGregor’s high power rating. Even McGregor said himself he’s not overly powerful. It should be down to the player to use their brains to do well, not rely on stats.

Edit: Of course Khabib should be better on top of, say, McGregor than Barboza would be, but if the person on the bottom is simply better at the game, they should win and not lose due to a **** player who picked a fighter with good stats.


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you’re clearly losing to people who are good at grappling in the game using fighters with stats that cater to that play style. if you keep thinking you’re the better player when losing you’ll never feel the need to improve. you have to be extremely patient on the ground fighting these ppl. i’ve been held down for 8 mins+ in a 3 rounder and still came out with the decision win.


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[MysticJack541]

Re: Stats play far too large a role in grappling

I've brought this up a couple of times, I agree stats in the grappling department play way too much of a role. In the striking department you can pick lower rated fighters and still have success, I can pick Demian Maia and still outstrike Conor, or Wonderboy if i'm careful, is it more difficult? yes, as it should be, but it's still possible.

But if I pick Gokhan Saki and run into DC and it's a decent player, the fight is literally over if it goes to the ground, they auto deny any attempt you try and drain your stamina and eventually "TKO" you. There is nothing you can do.

This causes a major issue with fighter selection, it discourages people from picking fighters with grappling overalls below 90. My point is, is that stats should not overtake skill, i'm fine with high grappling stats giving people a slight advantage, just like the striking stats work currently, but the grappling is overboard right now.

I challenge anyone to use Paul Felder in ranked and play until you get matched up with a Khabib player. Do this a few times, record the results, and see how you did.


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[Phillyboi207]

Re: Stats play far too large a role in grappling

I've brought this up a couple of times, I agree stats in the grappling department play way too much of a role. In the striking department you can pick lower rated fighters and still have success, I can pick Demian Maia and still outstrike Conor, or Wonderboy if i'm careful, is it more difficult? yes, as it should be, but it's still possible.

But if I pick Gokhan Saki and run into DC and it's a decent player, the fight is literally over if it goes to the ground, they auto deny any attempt you try and drain your stamina and eventually "TKO" you. There is nothing you can do.

This causes a major issue with fighter selection, it discourages people from picking fighters with grappling overalls below 90. My point is, is that stats should not overtake skill, i'm fine with high grappling stats giving people a slight advantage, just like the striking stats work currently, but the grappling is overboard right now.

I challenge anyone to use Paul Felder in ranked and play until you get matched up with a Khabib player. Do this a few times, record the results, and see how you did.


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Im sorry but if you’re outstriking a player using Maia their striking isnt that good.

[MacGowan]

Re: Stats play far too large a role in grappling

It doesn’t exist in real life.

Faking in clinch and on the ground exists very much in real life

Certainly not the way it works in this game. You know what I mean.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills with some you guys here.

Not in the way that we have it now. You will never see someone start up a pass to the left 2 times real quick and then pass to the right. “Faking” transitions in real life is something oftentimes imperceptible. You aren’t even going to know the guy is doing it.

But now we're discussing something different. But yes you could pass to the left real quick twice and then explode to the right, grapplers do that all the time too. But no, it's not the way it LOOKS and FEELS like in the game.

But when people are vague with their points and say "you know what i mean", it muddles the water. I don't believe the solution is to remove more options from a severely lacking grappling mechanic. The solution is probably a full overhaul for UFC4, but for the patchable things we can do for UFC3 I've created a list:

https://forums.operationsports.com/forums/ea-ufc/930121-macgowans-patchable-grappling-suggestions.html

I think a better idea for the moment (since we are obviously stuck with this system for now) is to allow more transitions to be faked on the bottom.

I agree

Faking should be more tiring on the bottom because it is in real life. If faking cost stamina it should have a corresponding buff to grapple advantage, because that is the impact of them in real life.

Yeah, I think just by being on the bottom or against the cage you should have to pay stamina wise.

if I pick Gokhan Saki and run into DC and it's a decent player, the fight is literally over if it goes to the ground, they auto deny any attempt you try and drain your stamina and eventually "TKO" you. There is nothing you can do.

Agreed. There's no real plan B in clinch and on the ground. you can't punch your way out of it, force your way out of it, reverse your way out of it. it's all the same mechanic, fill up that circle. if your opponent has the knowledge and stats to deny that, then either you're TKO'd, or you're waiting for the bell.

[Paledude45]

Re: Stats play far too large a role in grappling

It's true that any average or below average player can just choose DC or Khabib and use their ground stat advantage to deny most transitions to wreck you on the ground. Heck just master the crucifix position and you'll see your winning percentage skyrocket.

Skill becomes even less of a factor when you choose high rated fighters, especially those with high ground stats.

Has anybody watched Imuhboxer's YouTube video on how he climbed to the top 100? He's basically telling you to use DC and there's clips of him flash KOing Jimi Manuwa players with 2 punches. I'm not saying he's a bad player but his video highlights an unequal aspect of ranked competition. Sad.

[Freshly Baked Gregg]

Re: Stats play far too large a role in grappling

I like it the way it is. A good Conor player can deal with Khabib pretty easily. Khabib is horrible on the feet.



You already said you are not good in ranked. No disrespect but it seems like you just need more time with the game to get better. Stats should matter and they do. This all is down to a player issue not a game issue. These type of threads hurt the community and is something the devs still have to read to see if there is any merit to it.

When did I say this? I’m actually quite decent.


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[Freshly Baked Gregg]

Re: Stats play far too large a role in grappling

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills with some you guys here.

I never changed my opinion, buddy, what on earth are you trying to say? I said faking doesn’t exist in real life (in the sense that it does not work the way it does in game), you said it does, and I said that it doesn’t work like it does in game.

Instead of being a condescending prick at any chance you can take, learn to accept that maybe people don’t explain things exactly how they want to the first time.


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[MacGowan]

Re: Stats play far too large a role in grappling

Instead of being a condescending prick at any chance you can take, learn to accept that maybe people don’t explain things exactly how they want to the first time.

That might be the worst way of trying to say: "maybe I didn't explain myself properly the first time".

Try that the next time, instead of calling people pricks.

[Freshly Baked Gregg]

Stats play far too large a role in grappling

That might be the worst way of trying to say: "maybe I didn't explain myself properly the first time".

Try that the next time, instead of calling people pricks.

Hmmm I wonder why I said it that way... It’s not like you called me crazy or anything like that...


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[MacGowan]

Re: Stats play far too large a role in grappling

It’s not like you called me crazy marbles or anything like that...

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills with some you guys here.

So out of my post you got that I was calling you "crazy marbles"?