THE ULTIMATE GUIDE (Frame Data Simplified!)

[Phillyboi207]

Re: THE ULTIMATE GUIDE (Frame Data Simplified!)

I'm glad you said that, so that I can clarify this matter.

1- I am barely playing lately, so you don't have to worry about my advantage.

2- The other GCs (including the ones that play competitively) don't even look at the frame data. The sheets are very complicated, especially for people who aren't use to read frame data.

3- I have to look at frame data, in order to give feedback about it.

4- I'm requesting the release of the full frame data, as much as anyone. We just gotta be patient.

5- When that happens I intend to make more videos like the one in the OP, to help translating the essence of the frame data, to the players who don't wanna bury their heads in the chart.

All good?

I mean it’s cool that you’re saying they dont use it but guys like Kenetic are the best of the best and I find it hard to believe he doesnt pay attention to frame data. It’s essential for top players in ANY fighting game.

Im not sure what’s so complex about frame data.

Generally you have start up(wind up IRL), active(when the move can hit someone) recovery(you call it “whiff” but how long it takes before you can move again after executing the move). And the combination of the 3 let’s you know what’s safe and what isnt. And then it gets a bit more complex when you consider what’s cancelable, things like armor, or block stun.

What I want to know ...

1)Will the Devs will release info concerning weight classes/ ratings and the impact it has on frame data.

2) Does strike speed impact just start up or also recovery?

3)Same question for head movement

4)Does block stun exist in this game and is it impacted by block ratings?

[Solid_Altair]

Re: THE ULTIMATE GUIDE (Frame Data Simplified!)

1. You have access to FULL and ACTUAL frame data. ONLY you from the community. OK.
WHY i and others still do not have?

Will it be released for all (devs said that now after 1.05 they will move to grappling so it means it is final version)?

When approx it will be released?

WHY you can not post it right now (IF you already revealed this in your video so this is not a secret anymore!)?

IF the actual and full Frame data will not be posted in open sources like OS forum soon enough = this will be one of the most DISRESPECTIFUL actions from the Devs to the Community (hidden meta for some elected persons)!

2. You forgot about "Execution range - number of frames available to add to execution time based on ratings and stamina (50/50 split)" in your video. This range can increase strike execution nearly twice (12 exe and 8 frames range for Jab for ex) so it can dramatically change the situation.
THUS is the difference between Acrade fighting games (like you Soul Calibur) and fight SIM games (where moves has ANALOG numbers which are changing from many factors).

1- A big part of what it was delayed has to do with how the frames needed a revision. A few numbers weren't working as intended. In a recent patch, this revision happened. It doesn't necessarily mean that the frames are perfect and will never be changed again. But they're in a pretty good place, right now.

Then there is how the devs want to release the frames with a good presentation. And maybe there are complications I'm not aware of. Nobody is hiding anything. Things just have to be prepared in detail and this stuff also competes wth other things the devs have to do.

We just have to be patient.

In the video I only posted frame data for basic strikes, which had already been covered by that initial frames reveal by GPD. That was why he gave me the OK to post. But the frames for the fancy moves must wait for an official reveal.

2- I mentiond that moves could be slower, based on weight class and stats. I don't remember if I mentioned stamina. But I also didn't mean to mention everything in the video. The guide is about summarizing the essential frame data. Small details can be ignored, or seen in the charts (when they're released); or yet, revealed in other videos. These Ultimate Guides prioritize translating frame data for players who aren't used to it.

I mean it’s cool that you’re saying they dont use it but guys like Kenetic are the best of the best and I find it hard to believe he doesnt pay attention to frame data. It’s essential for top players in ANY fighting game.

Im not sure what’s so complex about frame data.

Generally you have start up(wind up IRL), active(when the move can hit someone) recovery(you call it “whiff” but how long it takes before you can move again after executing the move). And the combination of the 3 let’s you know what’s safe and what isnt. And then it gets a bit more complex when you consider what’s cancelable, things like armor, or block stun.

What I want to know ...

1)Will the Devs will release info concerning weight classes/ ratings and the impact it has on frame data.

2) Does strike speed impact just start up or also recovery?

3)Same question for head movement

4)Does block stun exist in this game and is it impacted by block ratings?

I suppose it may sound weird, but he really doesn't. I suppose it is just not in the sim games culture, yet. Hopefully videos like these can help to change that. Also remember that when GPD posted the frames, the thread got buried super quickly.

1- I hope so. If not, I'll ask permission to add the details.

2- I'll ask permission to answer that.

3- I don't know. I'll ask around and ask permission to answer.

4- Block stun definitely exists. I'll ask permission to answer the details.

BTW, the Frame data gets more complicate dthan the stuff you mentioned. Even besides blcok stun, there are other variables. What I call "Whiff" is not the regular recovery, or even the recovery on miss; it's how soon you can start blocking, after you miss (which is usually a little sooner than the full recovery). This game doesn't get credit for how organic it is. Maybe it will get more credit once the full frame data is revealed and people get more into frame data.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: THE ULTIMATE GUIDE (Frame Data Simplified!)

So the game places priority on block before striking in terms of recovery?

We really need more transparency in regards to this type of stuff. Can you imagine the outrage if any other competitive atmosphere allowed special members access to important data / game mechanics that others dont have?

But I will definitely appreciate it if you’re able to get that information for ne

Thanks!

[Solid_Altair]

Re: THE ULTIMATE GUIDE (Frame Data Simplified!)

So the game places priority on block before striking in terms of recovery?

We really need more transparency in regards to this type of stuff. Can you imagine the outrage if any other competitive atmosphere allowed special members access to important data / game mechanics that others dont have?

But I will definitely appreciate it if you’re able to get that information for ne

Thanks!

Yes, in a way that fits realism. Arcade games sort of do this, too,by special stances. EA UFC simply does it a lot more, with pretty much everything. And the devs can tune it with relative ease, thanks to their awesome animation technology.

Did you read GPD's write up about the striking? I think it was around release, or the beta. I'm pretty sure it mentioned the different recoveries. Not quite sure, but pretty sure.

I'm trying to get the answers and permission to the rest of those questions. GPD is super busy, so it might be a while.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: THE ULTIMATE GUIDE (Frame Data Simplified!)

Yes, in a way that fits realism. Arcade games sort of do this, too,by special stances. EA UFC simply does it a lot more, with pretty much everything. And the devs can tune it with relative ease, thanks to their awesome animation technology.

Did you read GPD's write up about the striking? I think it was around release, or the beta. I'm pretty sure it mentioned the different recoveries. Not quite sure, but pretty sure.

I'm trying to get the answers and permission to the rest of those questions. GPD is super busy, so it might be a while.

I did read it but I dont recall that being in it. I thought it focusd mainly on vulnerability. I’ll try to find it again

[SUGATA]

Re: THE ULTIMATE GUIDE (Frame Data Simplified!)

1- A big part of what it was delayed has to do with how the frames needed a revision. A few numbers weren't working as intended. In a recent patch, this revision happened. It doesn't necessarily mean that the frames are perfect and will never be changed again. But they're in a pretty good place, right now.

Then there is how the devs want to release the frames with a good presentation. And maybe there are complications I'm not aware of. Nobody is hiding anything. Things just have to be prepared in detail and this stuff also competes wth other things the devs have to do.

We just have to be patient.

In the video I only posted frame data for basic strikes, which had already been covered by that initial frames reveal by GPD. That was why he gave me the OK to post. But the frames for the fancy moves must wait for an official reveal.

2- I mentiond that moves could be slower, based on weight class and stats. I don't remember if I mentioned stamina. But I also didn't mean to mention everything in the video. The guide is about summarizing the essential frame data. Small details can be ignored, or seen in the charts (when they're released); or yet, revealed in other videos. These Ultimate Guides prioritize translating frame data for players who aren't used to it.


.

1. Look.
THIS (hiding frame data while tuning it) is CRITICAL MISTAKE.
No one fighting game never was balanced by few people, they were balanced by COMMUNITY on location tests, early accesses, betas, etc.
THIS NEW frame data which ONLY you know is already IN THE GAME now.
Giving this frame data to community will HELP Devs to tune and balance it b/c of more concrete feedback.
This is totally WRONG b/c restricts feedback range!


2. I watched yr video - no a word about Stamina effect on frame data, which is THE MOST important b/c is changing depending on your own actions! not just ratings and weight class. This is THE FIRST what must to be mentioned in yr "Ultimate guide"!
And this is not a "small detail".
nearly twice increasing execution duration - is NOT a "small detail"! This is like you are countering by slow Overhand but are thinking that performing a Jab and then are surprised that something going wrong.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: THE ULTIMATE GUIDE (Frame Data Simplified!)

1. Look.
THIS (hiding frame data while tuning it) is CRITICAL MISTAKE.
No one fighting game never was balanced by few people, they were balanced by COMMUNITY on location tests, early accesses, betas, etc.
THIS NEW frame data which ONLY you know is already IN THE GAME now.
Giving this frame data to community will HELP Devs to tune and balance it b/c of more concrete feedback.
This is totally WRONG b/c restricts feedback range!


2. I watched yr video - no a word about Stamina effect on frame data, which is THE MOST important b/c is changing depending on your own actions! not just ratings and weight class. This is THE FIRST what must to be mentioned in yr "Ultimate guide"!
And this is not a "small detail".
nearly twice increasing execution duration - is NOT a "small detail"! This is like you are countering by slow Overhand but are thinking that performing a Jab and then are surprised that something going wrong.

OK.

[MartialMind]

Re: THE ULTIMATE GUIDE (Frame Data Simplified!)

I mean it’s cool that you’re saying they dont use it but guys like Kenetic are the best of the best and I find it hard to believe he doesnt pay attention to frame data. It’s essential for top players in ANY fighting game.

Im not sure what’s so complex about frame data.

Generally you have start up(wind up IRL), active(when the move can hit someone) recovery(you call it “whiff” but how long it takes before you can move again after executing the move). And the combination of the 3 let’s you know what’s safe and what isnt. And then it gets a bit more complex when you consider what’s cancelable, things like armor, or block stun.

What I want to know ...

1)Will the Devs will release info concerning weight classes/ ratings and the impact it has on frame data.

2) Does strike speed impact just start up or also recovery?

3)Same question for head movement

4)Does block stun exist in this game and is it impacted by block ratings?

Kenetic, Zhunter, and Zombie are the 3 best players in the group. I'm almost certain neither of them look at the frame data.

I'm not even sure any other GC not named Yves can read the thing. It looks like a convoluted mess. I tried to look at it and it gave me a massive headache. Completely worthless to me when it comes to actually learning the game.

I've wanted to interview Kenetic about his approach to becoming so good at these games so maybe i'll just go ahead and do that, but i seriously doubt one of his answers would be "I spend hours studying the frame data".

He just plays hundreds of matches against the absolute best players he can find and absorbs all that knowledge better than anyone else.

[dfab14]

Re: THE ULTIMATE GUIDE (Frame Data Simplified!)

I'm not sure how much frame data would affect how I approach my striking game. I tend to base it on the belief that it's based on reality so with that knowledge I feel like I wouldn't need frame data. I'm sure there are people would would benefit from it but its mma not street fighter

Sent from my SM-G950U using Operation Sports mobile app

[dfab14]

Re: THE ULTIMATE GUIDE (Frame Data Simplified!)

Loved the video by the way it's nice seeing guides for this game thank you for spending your free time making them for our community

Sent from my SM-G950U using Operation Sports mobile app

[Solid_Altair]

Re: THE ULTIMATE GUIDE (Frame Data Simplified!)

I'm not sure how much frame data would affect how I approach my striking game. I tend to base it on the belief that it's based on reality so with that knowledge I feel like I wouldn't need frame data. I'm sure there are people would would benefit from it but its mma not street fighter

Sent from my SM-G950U using Operation Sports mobile app

As much as I wish for more company of frames enthusiasts, I must say that purpose of the frame tuning is to actually mimic real life, as much as possible. So, if you're doing fine by guiding your strategies by realism, that might actually be a good sign that the frames aren't bad.

[FCB x Finlay]

Re: THE ULTIMATE GUIDE (Frame Data Simplified!)

As much as I wish for more company of frames enthusiasts, I must say that purpose of the frame tuning is to actually mimic real life, as much as possible. So, if you're doing fine by guiding your strategies by realism, that might actually be a good sign that the frames aren't bad.

Unfortunately some large voices in the community are against realistic things however, this one method to get realism right but for some its irelavent and actually go as far as shouldnt be a factor. Not aimed at you.

[Poulpy]

Re: THE ULTIMATE GUIDE (Frame Data Simplified!)

I have already hard time to memorize some combo, cant think about page and page of frame in every situation.

Some things are good to know tough.

[SUGATA]

Re: THE ULTIMATE GUIDE (Frame Data Simplified!)

I have already hard time to memorize some combo, cant think about page and page of frame in every situation.

Some things are good to know tough.

you dont need

frame data is a tool to CREATE a combo/reaction/counter script, which is the BEST for THIS concrete situation

IF you understand the frame data principles it will allow you to be more fast and more effective in this creating.

Otherwise - you need to find the best combo/script by Practice with dummy, but
- dummy and recording tool is critically bugged and not working so NOT USABLE
- it can take much more time w/o assurance of success.


It is like:
-w/o FD: searching black cat in black room. If larger Move list = larger black room = harder/longer to find black cat
- with FD: searching black cat with Night vision googles.


FD is not for real time counting frames DURING the match - it is for learning and creating best tactics and scripts in PRE-MATCH practice while looking FD in your iPad/Phone - no need to learn all numbers, you need to learn a RESULTS, i.e. scripts/templates/scenarious which were born under FD usage.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: THE ULTIMATE GUIDE (Frame Data Simplified!)

I have already hard time to memorize some combo, cant think about page and page of frame in every situation.

Some things are good to know tough.

I suggest prioritizing memmorizing what is unsafe, what the punishments are (the punishment on block is almost always a planted straight) and a rough measure of vulnerability, like: "this kick has low vulnerability for a kick."

The rest is quite intuitive.