THE ULTIMATE GUIDE (Frame Data Simplified!)

[FCB x Finlay]

Re: THE ULTIMATE GUIDE (Frame Data Simplified!)

I'd be glad to examine your lab results.

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/fcb-x-finlay-x/video/48851915
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/fcb-x-finlay-x/video/48618503

Not 100 percent accurate but shows my point. I will do another one soon.

Heres a bonus lab test of the differnece in speed between normally qalking back and the new movement mechanic.
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/fcb-x-finlay-x/video/48865058

[Solid_Altair]

Re: THE ULTIMATE GUIDE (Frame Data Simplified!)

What about the second part Solid?

It might be awhile. I gotta wait for the frame data on the unorthodox strikes to be officially released, first. I hoping it will be soon, but I actually don't know when it will happen.

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/fcb-x-finlay-x/video/48851915
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/fcb-x-finlay-x/video/48618503

Not 100 percent accurate but shows my point. I will do another one soon.

Heres a bonus lab test of the differnece in speed between normally qalking back and the new movement mechanic.
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/fcb-x-finlay-x/video/48865058

Though love time:

Those tests don't conclude much. Do you think there is anything wrong or weird there? Timing is extremely important in these situations and you're using a messy cold turkey timing. One thing that helps is to set the AI to jab, then do the action you want to counter.

But, more importantly, what in those tests seemed odd to you?

[FCB x Finlay]

Re: THE ULTIMATE GUIDE (Frame Data Simplified!)

It might be awhile. I gotta wait for the frame data on the unorthodox strikes to be officially released, first. I hoping it will be soon, but I actually don't know when it will happen.


Though love time:

Those tests don't conclude much. Do you think there is anything wrong or weird there? Timing is extremely important in these situations and you're using a messy cold turkey timing. One thing that helps is to set the AI to jab, then do the action you want to counter.

But, more importantly, what in those tests seemed odd to you?

Those were the first tests i truely did dorry for the quality, again i bring it back to the logic, the check hook is the true counter to the rear uppercut. The lack of power negation, the lack of vulnerabilty bonus to the correct counter.

I will do some more shortly. The speed test is valid i have to say, shows that the new mechanic isnt actually that much faster.

[Poulpy]

Re: THE ULTIMATE GUIDE (Frame Data Simplified!)

Haymaker faster than overhand ?

I knew something was weird with few overhand combo user in UT. After the fight, i always see : yoel Romeo 3stars haymaker.

I was thinking : why put a haymaker in a brawler who already have a 3stars overhand ?

Now i know why..

[Solid_Altair]

Re: THE ULTIMATE GUIDE (Frame Data Simplified!)

Those were the first tests i truely did dorry for the quality, again i bring it back to the logic, the check hook is the true counter to the rear uppercut. The lack of power negation, the lack of vulnerabilty bonus to the correct counter.

I will do some more shortly. The speed test is valid i have to say, shows that the new mechanic isnt actually that much faster.

No need to apologize, bro.

You seem to be thinking about counters in a messy way, though, ignoring the timing factor. I certain hook should not beat a certain upper just because you're throwing one against the other. Timing is if the essence, as it should be.

And the vulnerability system only accounts for extra damage. It doesn't really mess with stopping power.

The true counter isn't just throwing lead hook vs rear upper. As it stands, now, you'd have to make the rear upper miss, then hit the guy with the lead upper, to peak the vuln. You could also land your lead hook early, to stop his upper, but without max vuln. Or use a rear hook early, to stop the upper with max vuln.

Haymaker faster than overhand ?

I knew something was weird with few overhand combo user in UT. After the fight, i always see : yoel Romeo 3stars haymaker.

I was thinking : why put a haymaker in a brawler who already have a 3stars overhand ?

Now i know why..

He might also be interested in the bonus stats granted by his Haymaker card.

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: THE ULTIMATE GUIDE (Frame Data Simplified!)

You seem to be thinking about counters in a messy way, though, ignoring the timing factor. I certain hook should not beat a certain upper just because you're throwing one against the other. Timing is if the essence, as it should be.

And the vulnerability system only accounts for extra damage. It doesn't really mess with stopping power.

The true counter isn't just throwing lead hook vs rear upper. As it stands, now, you'd have to make the rear upper miss, then hit the guy with the lead upper, to peak the vuln. You could also land your lead hook early, to stop his upper, but without max vuln. Or use a rear hook early, to stop the upper with max vuln.


He might also be interested in the bonus stats granted by his Haymaker card.

I think I might see his point actually. The vulnerability side maybe should switch for the uppercut. The generalized rule for strike vulnerability looks to be backwards for the uppercut based on the animation and the movement of the head. Not something I'd really noticed until now when he pointed it out.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: THE ULTIMATE GUIDE (Frame Data Simplified!)

I think I might see his point actually. The vulnerability side maybe should switch for the uppercut. The generalized rule for strike vulnerability looks to be backwards for the uppercut based on the animation and the movement of the head. Not something I'd really noticed until now when he pointed it out.

I had no idea about this stuff.

See? It is good to talk about the kinks.

Would this change be easy to implement, GPD?

[GameplayDevUFC]

Re: THE ULTIMATE GUIDE (Frame Data Simplified!)

I had no idea about this stuff.

See? It is good to talk about the kinks.

Would this change be easy to implement, GPD?

Yes it would.

[FCB x Finlay]

Re: THE ULTIMATE GUIDE (Frame Data Simplified!)

I had no idea about this stuff.

See? It is good to talk about the kinks.

Would this change be easy to implement, GPD?

An apology would be nice .

This also seems to affect the spinning backfist after a left hook. I will show you later.

[FCB x Finlay]

Re: THE ULTIMATE GUIDE (Frame Data Simplified!)

No need to apologize, bro.

You seem to be thinking about counters in a messy way, though, ignoring the timing factor. I certain hook should not beat a certain upper just because you're throwing one against the other. Timing is if the essence, as it should be.

And the vulnerability system only accounts for extra damage. It doesn't really mess with stopping power.

The true counter isn't just throwing lead hook vs rear upper. As it stands, now, you'd have to make the rear upper miss, then hit the guy with the lead upper, to peak the vuln. You could also land your lead hook early, to stop his upper, but without max vuln. Or use a rear hook early, to stop the upper with max vuln.


He might also be interested in the bonus stats granted by his Haymaker card.

The part in bold, lets thino of counters in a realistic way, should be the best way to determine it, not messy at all. Being vulnerable is habing the chin exposed.

[Poulpy]

Re: THE ULTIMATE GUIDE (Frame Data Simplified!)

He might also be interested in the bonus stats granted by his Haymaker card.

Top 20 UT have a lot of card, you can have the bonus with one other card.
And half of them have haymaker equipped the move must be better.

I always feel if someone have haymaker equipped.
When you hurt, its difficult to react, combo came hell fast.

6 frame faster is big deal no ?

My biggest lose came by haymaker combo until im dead. Thats why i keep a eyes on this move.

[Solid_Altair]

Re: THE ULTIMATE GUIDE (Frame Data Simplified!)

An apology would be nice .

This also seems to affect the spinning backfist after a left hook. I will show you later.

I am glad the discussion sprung a potential change in the game. But my point about timing still stands.

I then offer an undue apology as a way to balance things with your undue apology about the test data.

I actually don't know how the spiining backfist vuln works. IMO it should be more vulnerable on recover than on excution (timing-wise). I have no idea how it should behave in terms of location, so your suggestions will be very welcome for it, too.

Top 20 UT have a lot of card, you can have the bonus with one other card.
And half of them have haymaker equipped the move must be better.

I always feel if someone have haymaker equipped.
When you hurt, its difficult to react, combo came hell fast.

6 frame faster is big deal no ?

My biggest lose came by haymaker combo until im dead. Thats why i keep a eyes on this move.

Thanks for clarifying. I'm very ignorant about high level UT.

And yes, 6 frames is quite noticeable. I still think it's agood balance with added reach of the Overhand. But TBH, I don't think I've played much with any fighter who has the Haymaker. So, I don't have a direct impression that would properly fuel a fair comparison.

[FCB x Finlay]

Re: THE ULTIMATE GUIDE (Frame Data Simplified!)

I am glad the discussion sprung a potential change in the game. But my point about timing still stands.

I then offer an undue apology as a way to balance things with your undue apology about the test data.

I actually don't know how the spiining backfist vuln works. IMO it should be more vulnerable on recover than on excution (timing-wise). I have no idea how it should behave in terms of location, so your suggestions will be very welcome for it, too.


Thanks for clarifying. I'm very ignorant about high level UT.

And yes, 6 frames is quite noticeable. I still think it's agood balance with added reach of the Overhand. But TBH, I don't think I've played much with any fighter who has the Haymaker. So, I don't have a direct impression that would properly fuel a fair comparison.

Timing is very key as it should be, thats what let me down as i couldn't get it
constantly.

Im not too sure on the rest of the things but damage is all i can go off. Left hook spinning back fist does 30-40 damage compared to the single spinning back fist does 10-20 base damage. Rough values as i dont know the exact figures. Also did this with a forward moving oppenent to see if there would be a difference but theres not. What is the vulnerable time for the spinning back fist.

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/fcb-x-finlay-x/video/50904566

[Poulpy]

Re: THE ULTIMATE GUIDE (Frame Data Simplified!)

Spoiler

8

Thanks for clarifying. I'm very ignorant about high level UT.

And yes, 6 frames is quite noticeable. I still think it's agood balance with added reach of the Overhand. But TBH, I don't think I've played much with any fighter who has the Haymaker. So, I don't have a direct impression that would properly fuel a fair .

This thread give me some luck. I Just pulled my 260e gold move and : haymaker ! Finally !
Im so happy to have this move on my side !

I do some quick test and yes, 6 frame is noticiable. All you need is wait for your oppenent is Hurt and trow haymaker combo. Reach is not a big deal if you can stay close enough. 100 leg mouvement help for pressure.

Its not a win button but better than the overhand i think. You can duck but with haymaker follow with uppercut you have to be very fast. ( or slip to the overhand side but you exposed for hook ).
It came so fast i have to guess where i slip before the strike.

Leg kick haymaker / jab jab haymaker or haymaker uppercut is my nemesis. I dont count how many time these combo caught me.
And the leg kick cover so much distance. Its hard to judge.

Now im ready to revenge all my haymaker losses

[Solid_Altair]

Re: THE ULTIMATE GUIDE (Frame Data Simplified!)

Timing is very key as it should be, thats what let me down as i couldn't get it
constantly.

Im not too sure on the rest of the things but damage is all i can go off. Left hook spinning back fist does 30-40 damage compared to the single spinning back fist does 10-20 base damage. Rough values as i dont know the exact figures. Also did this with a forward moving oppenent to see if there would be a difference but theres not. What is the vulnerable time for the spinning back fist.

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/fcb-x-finlay-x/video/50904566

It's about where it hits.

What I wrote before was about the vulnerability conceded by the spinning backfist. The vuln it enjoys is the same as that of a hook or head kick that catches the guy on the same side.