Why can people play like terminators

[johnmangala]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

Nope because you would be presenting your argument of what should change about stamina and what shouldnt. Being a former mod, I doubt anyone would lock that.

Body 1212 and bobble heads were removed because there was a consensus amongst the entire community that it should be changed.

Your adjustments should be what I just told you. Present an argument in a separate thread. Anticipate the counter arguments (many of which can be found in this thread or by using the search engine). Avoid arguments like "Casuals will adjust".

Okay I will make a thread on risky defense and stamina.

According to the polls here more people are in favor of realistic strike stamina than not, so there is majority consensus here. You are making the claim that casuals may have an issue with realistic strike stamina, they may not if we are just assuming. You could provide evidence that casuals indeed would not be in favor or not mind realistic strike stamina.

Alright I will adjust my arguments from casuals will adjust to something else.

[aholbert32]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

Okay I will make a thread on risky defense and stamina.

According to the polls here more people are in favor of realistic strike stamina than not, so there is majority consensus here. You are making the claim that casuals may have an issue with realistic strike stamina, they may not if we are just assuming. You could provide evidence that casuals indeed would not be in favor or not mind realistic strike stamina.

Alright I will adjust my arguments from casuals will adjust to something else.

Great.

I'm not assuming that though. I've been told by devs that they are concerned that casual fans would have an issue with strict realistic stamina. Thats based on actual data that they are privy to and that you and I arent.

[Haz____]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

Back on track here, I have been looking for data on average strikes per round in a Kickboxing fight. Unfortuantly I can't seem to find any hard data.

I did find a link to this forum thread-
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/s...round.3174523/

Nothing hard, but some light math makes it look like the average number of strikes in a round in a Kickboxing fight averages around 60.

Now thats with 3 minutes rounds, and no wrestling. The accelerate clock makes EA UFC rounds right about 3 minutes, making this a great comparision to real to life striking numbers.

So yeah, thats just 60 strikes per round, in a purely striking sport. An average EA UFC 3 match somewhere around doubles that number.

Can any one else find any hard data on average strikes per round in kickboxing?

[Kingslayer04]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

I'll break it down for you so you wont be confused anymore:

- The reason I'm a game changer is OS and offline gaming. Not you and the people who came over when the EA forums were shut down. The guys like Shiz (who is still here) and many others who stopped posting here once many of the EA forum guys came over. They are well reasoned guys who want a realistic representation of MMA but also are mature enough to understand that this is a game.

- Because I represent offline and OS, anytime an issue here pops up here (whether its stamina, movement or head movement or AI), I bring it up in the chat that the Gamechangers and the devs share. Half the time, I'm not even aware of the issue. Its just "Hey, take a look at this thread and tell me what you think." I did that regularly pre and post launch. In fact, last spring I brought up this very subject to the GCs and the devs and we discussed it for a long time (days). Its the reason I was able to land on my conclusion that none of the proposed solutions will make everyone happy.

- Now this isnt part of my responsibility but the reason im a GC is because of OS, so I provide the information I can back to this forum. If someone asks a question, I'll provide an answer if i know it. If someone is out here making wild speculation or providing incorrect info, I'll correct that. I do that because I know the answer and because the devs dont spend a ton of time posting here.

- Other GCs dont come here regularly. They dont enjoy debating with you guys for the most part nor do that find it a fun way to spend their time. They have no obligation to listen to or debate what you guys are saying.

- The reality is you dont really like debate. You dont like legit pushback. I've observed that for years now. When you get legit pushback you try to change the subject or (in the past) flipped out and got yourself banned multiple times. So I see why this is tough for you. With that said, all I'm trying to do is help you.

You want more realistic stamina? Come with a better argument because the one you've been using for over a year doesnt seem to have much traction. Dont get mad at me because it doesnt have traction. Regroup and come with a better argument. The team is developing a new game right now. Now is the time. The approach you should be taking is to present a better argument that will convince the devs that this is the way to go and that it will benefit every type of player who plays the game.

I hope this clears your confusion.

One thing I don't seem to get is how the developers are reluctant to make stamina and damage more realistic due to fear that the casuals would feel intimidated and that is an argument presented in this forum, yet everyone in this forum wants and agrees that there should be an incredibly intricate and complex ground game, with RetractedMonkey going as far as saying something along the lines of "I don't know how your tiny brains will grasp that". So that won't intimidate casuals, but gassing out because you throw like a madman will? Or a realistic representation of a heavyweight division? Come on now. The general rules are simple - the heavier the division, the harder the punches, the lesser the margin for error, the higher the fatigue. Surely the casuals can grasp that.

There's also such a thing as overly balancing things (and I've discussed this quite a lot and the threads are there to be read) as giving "the better player" a chance to beat me after 10 knockdowns is absolutely ridiculous and has nothing to do with reality. If the developers feel like this game should be arcadey and they don't want to touch so many things that are key to an immersive experience just say so (which they kinda do), but I'm not buying things like " the player doesn't feel the actual threat and pain" or "a professional fighter won't gas, they can hit heavy bags for ages", etc. These are facts, sure, I'm just not convinced by them as an argument in this context. It's a known thing, high output means heavy fatigue, unless you can afford the high output. Regardless of the biology behind it and the fighters' actual sporting capabilities. High outputs tire most people out in the world of MMA and this isn't as accurately represented in the game. My personal issue is with the heavier weight classes though. The wars at lightweight often feel realistic. If you truly want to make the game more realistic (yet still competitive of course) you'll actively work towards that end without waiting for posters on the internet to tell you how to do it. Obviously that helps but you're the developer. So yeah, if you don't value realism side of the coin as much as the competitive side of the coin - fine, but just say so outright. Because there are many things that aren't realistic and everyone knows about them and can be worked on, can be tackled, including the block dilemma, if they really want to tackle them. They're challenging, sure, but like I said, if you really want to approach them you will do so.

Edit: for the record, my biggest gripe with the game right now is mostly damage- , and not stamina-related. Stamina becomes an issue for me at heavyweight, but it's once again tied to the damage system because at heavyweight you still need to block-break rather than kill with one shot, etc. etc.

[oshighwayman]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

what about having Ranked as "simulation" and UT as "arcade"?


and as for stamina discussion, from other angle, what about stamina regeneration and perks like Marathoner and what about how much defensive moves and abilities cost compared to offensive ones


i aint no expert, but just watching how quickly stamina goes down headbanging like u re on some metal gig, how much of stamina bar disappear when u do advanced back lunge or doing "hasty retreat" or what is that thing called when u raise ur glove and quickly disappear out of octagon, which UFC dev was showing in one of his videos, that s kinda lot of stamina for defensive abilities and it i just wonder if this can have something with pressure meta in lower divisions


i mean let s say i really like Alexander Gustaffson, can u move like him and do all of his defensive footwork he s doing in his real fights in this game?


or maybe it will seems like game is "punishing" u for doing that?


i dont know i am just asking, is the stamina consumption balanced between offensive and defensive abilities?


or u are u almost forced to counter a lot from any used defensive ability to make it effective?

[oshighwayman]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

I find this argument interesting because while I agree you should have to put the work in with the defensive tools, surely you should also have to put in the work to have good stamina management on the offensive?
I'm not sure where I stand on this subject myself. I would hate for the game to be fully 'realistic' because lets be honest we've all watched absolute stinkers and at the end of the day this is a video game for fun. At the same time, it's quite funny seeing HWs gas irl after 15 or so strikes in the first round but I've comfortably hit 200+ fine on UFC 3.

imagine we can have here something like Derrick Lewis vs Mark Hunt fight, Derrick gas himself out trying to throw all fancy stuff and patient Mark Hunt just take win

[xtremeba1000]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

I can always win if my opponent is patient and let's me get into a rhythm. But if they just run at me throwing 1-2 and mixing in hooks I can never land that amazing sway straight. I can usually win but I'll be literally running away hitting them in the body for a long drawn out come from behind win after getting rocked 5-10 times.

[johnmangala]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

Great.

I'm not assuming that though. I've been told by devs that they are concerned that casual fans would have an issue with strict realistic stamina. Thats based on actual data that they are privy to and that you and I arent.

Okay I made the thread. But this topic has been beat to the ground, I don't think it will gain much traction if at all.

Is there data on if casuals are primarily strikers or grapplers? Majority of players you come across are strikers so I would imagine casuals are mainly strikers. Is that bias taken into consideration?

[aholbert32]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

Okay I made the thread. But this topic has been beat to the ground, I don't think it will gain much traction if at all.

Is there data on if casuals are primarily strikers or grapplers? Majority of players you come across are strikers so I would imagine casuals are mainly strikers. Is that bias taken into consideration?

EA has data on how casuals play and according to the devs, casuals tend to strike significantly more. You are seeing what they are seeing and given that its likely one of the reasons they are hesitant to add strict realistic stamina to every part of the game.

[xtremeba1000]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

Okay I made the thread. But this topic has been beat to the ground, I don't think it will gain much traction if at all.

Is there data on if casuals are primarily strikers or grapplers? Majority of players you come across are strikers so I would imagine casuals are mainly strikers. Is that bias taken into consideration?

I would say like 20% of people on quick fight are mainly grapplers the rest are strikers

[johnmangala]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

EA has data on how casuals play and according to the devs, casuals tend to strike significantly more. You are seeing what they are seeing and given that its likely one of the reasons they are hesitant to add strict realistic stamina to every part of the game.

I would say like 20% of people on quick fight are mainly grapplers the rest are strikers

I thought so.

It is strange to me that it's okay to have strict realistic stamina for grappling but have this lenient stamina for striking. It compromises the integrity of the meta when stamina skews in such a way.

Stamina is perhaps the most crucial aspect to manage in MMA. Therefore, I think it should be done the most justice for an authentic experience.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

I thought so.

It is strange to me that it's okay to have strict realistic stamina for grappling but have this lenient stamina for striking. It compromises the integrity of the meta when stamina skews in such a way.

Stamina is perhaps the most crucial aspect to manage in MMA. Therefore, I think it should be done the most justice for an authentic experience.

Everything you said is true but the majority of the playerbase doesnt agree.

Cant fault the Devs for giving the majority what they want

[johnmangala]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

Everything you said is true but the majority of the playerbase doesnt agree.

Cant fault the Devs for giving the majority what they want

Majority doesn't like decisions either. Let's raise the finish % further to appease them.

[RematchKing]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

Well, for a subject that we were so apparently wrong about, the length of this thread surely does not seem to indicate that. Looks like a lot more people thought this was an issue than you “pro” players thought. I would consider myself a casual player. I seldom play raked because of the spammy nature of the people there, but when I play the placement matches and whatnot, I’m placed in division 4. I’m not a complete casual, but I also don’t study every single position on the ground and clinch and whatnot. There is more than just the ridiculous strike output that causes me grief with this game. The game isn’t dynamic.

Why do we not have the ability to explode? Tyron Woodley is a perfect example of this explosion with his blitz punch that he does. We should be able to explode both on the feet and on the ground and it should drain stamina accordingly. If you want to explode with pressure, you should be severely punished if it does not pay off. There are certain fighters that have a higher explosive ability than others. I find this game really tries to make a lot of the fighters “equal” or it tries to make these very defined categories of fighters. That is unrealistic. Some fighters possess abilities that others do not.

Idle movement should also be added. Actual fighters do not look like they do in the game when not in motion. The fighters should have perpetual motion to actually make them look alive and not just bouncing in one spot when you’re not moving. They don’t do that. They move, stop, slow down, change angles, etc. They don’t just hop in the exact same place not moving an inch.

The models need to be revamped as well. A lot of the models do not look like their real life counterparts. Nunes doesn’t, Till doesn’t, Francis, Dillashaw, etc. TJ had his tatts before this game was made and yet Cody has his but TJ doesn’t. Tj is also way too bulky. He’s slender IRL and that is not reflected. I get that there may be artist disputes with his tattoos, but you could at least do SOMETHING. The ladies look weird in the face as well.

Like it’s not just ONE thing that takes away from how good this game could be, it’s a bunch of little things like this that really keep me from going “Wow, this is amazing!” The game changer thing is nice and all, but it doesn’t really represent a lot of the people that play these games. I’m not a pro by any means, but a lot of the things that appease the ranked only players, don’t really sit well with people that don’t. The ranked guys want realism when it comes to certain things but are okay with things that aren’t realistic if they feel like they can beat it or use it.

[Mydog8]

Re: Why can people play like terminators

Everything you said is true but the majority of the playerbase doesnt agree.

Cant fault the Devs for giving the majority what they want

I disagree and that mindset is a major problem in media and in our country.

Instead of just doing what people say they want people need to have a big vision and stick to it. It is the courage of leadership.

Star Wars OG trilogy
NBA2k series
The Show series
Nirvana
Michael Jackson
Obama
Mass Effect

These things above would not have been so awesome unless the creative mind didn't follow the vision and instead just went with the crowd. Every slip up for n the above has been because they followed the crowd instead of leading the crowd

The truth is that EA is only the best sports game in categories that dont have other sports games because they just give people what they want. People dont know what they want. They should have vision of making an MMA Sim and good things will happen when you follow that idea.