Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Social media users themselves are already a minority, and a vast majority of them are passive readers. Those same sites have complained about things like season passes and microtransactions for ages yet they still exist. There's been some exceptions like Battlefront 2 but even that game still sold millions of units.

Personally I don't see how the bit about is any surprising, though. If you play quick matches/low ranked or watch regular people play UFC they're almost always stand and bang wars.

It's a minority sure but I wouldnt say it's that far off. FIFA and NBA have large social media followings and partnerships so a large part of their audience uses it in some form or another.

The battlefront 2 point is a little odd since EA lost billions, around 3, in stock which is partly down to it.

Stand and bang wars are mainly due down to the mechanics of the game, the ground game isnt interesting or varied. I'm only bringing some doubt to this supposed data when all forms of public feedback point to the opposite.

[aholbert32]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Where does these facts come from? All means of public critism are heavily against it, which are youTube comments, reddit, Twitter, here and the discord. These might just be the vocal minority as we dont know the full numbers of users. All I can say is that all points of observable discussion about this game tend to disagree with these facts which makes them hard to believe.

The facts come from:

1) I was behind the scenes and so I know the type of players that the devs listened to when it came to gameplay. LET ME MAKE THIS CLEAR. I'm not saying that the devs didnt listen to sim or realistic gamers at all. I'm saying that more of the input came from comp players.

2) You and I have to accept that the devs and other members of the team (like QC players) have access to more information that we do. They have telemetry that shows how players play, what modes they play, how often they play. They have private and public surveys. They have focus groups. They have access to the same social media you do.

For example, 1212 said that these 60 pages are proof that the "majority" wants a circle out sprint option. Its true that this is a 60 page thread. Its also true that only about 25-30 people actually posted in this thread.

A million plus people bought UFC 3. What percentage of that million do you think regularly post on social media about this game? 20%? 10%? Even if its 30% it doesnt represent the majority of people who own this game.

[aholbert32]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

It's a minority sure but I wouldnt say it's that far off. FIFA and NBA have large social media followings and partnerships so a large part of their audience uses it in some form or another.

The battlefront 2 point is a little odd since EA lost billions, around 3, in stock which is partly down to it.

Stand and bang wars are mainly due down to the mechanics of the game, the ground game isnt interesting or varied. I'm only bringing some doubt to this supposed data when all forms of public feedback point to the opposite.

I dont think thats true. I've seen and played every MMA game ever made and when it comes to the ones online....all of them had casuals who primarily wanted to stand and bang.

[tomitomitomi]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

It's a minority sure but I wouldnt say it's that far off. FIFA and NBA have large social media followings and partnerships so a large part of their audience uses it in some form or another.

The battlefront 2 point is a little odd since EA lost billions, around 3, in stock which is partly down to it.

People have complained about the grind and P2W aspects of FIFA and 2K for ages too and they keep getting worse. Battlefront 2 was a huge outrage but it's one of the few times internet complaints had a big effect and it was a big cultivation of events (extremely outrageous MTX, Star Wars and spiritual sequel to a beloved franchise). Even then it didn't really influence EA's future behavior as their new games still have nasty microtransactions (including FIFA).

Stand and bang wars are mainly due down to the mechanics of the game, the ground game isnt interesting or varied. I'm only bringing some doubt to this supposed data when all forms of public feedback point to the opposite.

How do you verify this? There are lots of MMA fans that hate grappling and want to see KOs. Is it really surprising that they want the game to function like that?

Even the games you mentioned have similar "boring" playstyles e.g. FIFA and possession. Shooting games and camping.

A million plus people bought UFC 3. What percentage of that million do you think regularly post on social media about this game? 20%? 10%? Even if its 30% it doesnt represent the majority of people who own this game.

I think even 5% would be extremely generous.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Are there any guys on xbox that are able to pull off this moving backward/diagonal thing and not be cut off?

I tried replicating it but havent been successful

Everything I’ve tried leads to the one backing up eventually being placed against the cage and trapped.

[bmlimo]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

A million+ people bought the game, but only 20k people play it online putting Xbox and ps4 together.... so, this is the kind of meta that people like?

[aholbert32]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

A million+ people bought the game, but only 20k people play it online putting Xbox and ps4 together.... so, this is the kind of meta that people like?

That’s false. Your 20k assumes that its the same 20k that is playing all the time. It’s safe to assume way more people play online than that.

You know what? You guys can believe or not believe their data. That doesn’t really matter because THEY believe their data. So that’s what you are fighting against.


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[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

People have complained about the grind and P2W aspects of FIFA and 2K for ages too and they keep getting worse. Battlefront 2 was a huge outrage but it's one of the few times internet complaints had a big effect and it was a big cultivation of events (extremely outrageous MTX, Star Wars and spiritual sequel to a beloved franchise). Even then it didn't really influence EA's future behavior as their new games still have nasty microtransactions (including FIFA).



How do you verify this? There are lots of MMA fans that hate grappling and want to see KOs. Is it really surprising that they want the game to function like that?

Even the games you mentioned have similar "boring" playstyles e.g. FIFA and possession. Shooting games and camping.



I think even 5% would be extremely generous.

The only thing that can stop microtranasations is laws, like what they did in Belgian. People will always try and get an edge and that's how they do it. FIFA for me is in a transitional stage when it comes to offline and online. Online modes, FUT especially, are getting all the work as that's what makes them money. They are making it so its essentially a compition for the best players. Offline modes and other modes that make them no money have all suffered because of it. Career mode and pro clubs have gone unchanged for years with massive community backlash every year but with no change, the journey is awful as well and is widely panned.

F2 Tekz is the best fifa player atm and he is pretty heavy on possession and defense, I wouldn't say that's a boring play style to the masses.

I mean are there lots of MMA fans that hate grappling? Can they be called MMA fans? Sure some people will see this as another Arcade Fighter that has no basis in reality but that's another thing.

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

The facts come from:

1) I was behind the scenes and so I know the type of players that the devs listened to when it came to gameplay. LET ME MAKE THIS CLEAR. I'm not saying that the devs didnt listen to sim or realistic gamers at all. I'm saying that more of the input came from comp players.

2) You and I have to accept that the devs and other members of the team (like QC players) have access to more information that we do. They have telemetry that shows how players play, what modes they play, how often they play. They have private and public surveys. They have focus groups. They have access to the same social media you do.

For example, 1212 said that these 60 pages are proof that the "majority" wants a circle out sprint option. Its true that this is a 60 page thread. Its also true that only about 25-30 people actually posted in this thread.

A million plus people bought UFC 3. What percentage of that million do you think regularly post on social media about this game? 20%? 10%? Even if its 30% it doesnt represent the majority of people who own this game.

1, I don't think that has anything to do with what I'm saying, all I'm doing is expressing doubt with this data as every observable source we have is showing the opposite of this data.

2. I do accept it, all I'm doing is expressing doubt with it. I don't think how players play and what they play is a good method of understanding what they want, that could be down to how the game actually functions and makes them play.

But nowhere near a million play the game, to the numbers we have access to there are around 20k concurrent players on online modes over both consoles. It tells you player numbers before searching for a match on each online mode. We don't know the number of offline players but I doubt it will be far greater than that, just assuming here.

[tomitomitomi]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

F2 Tekz is the best fifa player atm and he is pretty heavy on possession and defense, I wouldn't say that's a boring play style to the masses.

I mean are there lots of MMA fans that hate grappling? Can they be called MMA fans? Sure some people will see this as another Arcade Fighter that has no basis in reality but that's another thing.

1. That's just one guy. I've played hundreds of FIFA matches and have seen even more games and hardly anyone plays possession.

2. I'm not into gatekeeping what qualifies as a real fan. They consume the product and make MMA a profitable business. There's a reason why the commentators always comment crowd shows any signs of enthusiasm towards grappling.

[aholbert32]

Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

1, I don't think that has anything to do with what I'm saying, all I'm doing is expressing doubt with this data as every observable source we have is showing the opposite of this data.



2. I do accept it, all I'm doing is expressing doubt with it. I don't think how players play and what they play is a good method of understanding what they want, that could be down to how the game actually functions and makes them play.



But nowhere near a million play the game, to the numbers we have access to there are around 20k concurrent players on online modes over both consoles. It tells you player numbers before searching for a match on each online mode. We don't know the number of offline players but I doubt it will be far greater than that, just assuming here.

Let me see if I understand your point:

Ea has several ways to determine how people play this game and how they want to play this game. They do this not because they want to make the best game necessarily but more to target how to sell the most games.

They have taken that data, crunched it and their data shows them what people want.

You have access to maybe a 1/6th of that information and express doubt based on it, correct?

Here are a few questions for everyone. They are basic but I don’t think anyone has answered it:

If the data shows that the majority wants a realistic sim....why wouldn’t EA make one?

If the data shows that more people would buy a realistic sim, why wouldn’t EA make one?

Can we agree that EA is a corporation solely focused on increasing profit? If so, why would they design a game that will produce less profit?

Like if the argument is that making a realistic sim will result in the best game....I agree with you totally.

If your argument is that the majority wants this kind of game....ea claims to have data that counters that.


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[Kingslayer04]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Most of the posts in this thread, and they've been a lot, seem like a waste of time and effort to me.

Aholbert clearly stated what needs to be done is to show casuals and players in general on, say, Reddit, the benefits of realism and convince them to get behind all of that. Posting on here alone won't get anything done. It's been a week or two since my last post on the matter and people are still arguing that "the majority" wants realism (when clearly we are not a majority, unfortunately, and this has been reiterated tens of times now) and repeat that they're top 100 ad hominem.

Apparently, getting people outside of this forum behind the idea is what is most likely to yield results.

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Let me see if I understand your point:

Ea has several ways to determine how people play this game and how they want to play this game. They do this not because they want to make the best game necessarily but more to target how to sell the most games.

They have taken that data, crunched it and their data shows them what people want.

You have access to maybe a 1/6th of that information and express doubt based on it, correct?

Here are a few questions for everyone. They are basic but I don’t think anyone has answered it:

If the data shows that the majority wants a realistic sim....why wouldn’t EA make one?

If the data shows that more people would buy a realistic sim, why wouldn’t EA make one?

Can we agree that EA is a corporation solely focused on increasing profit? If so, why would they design a game that will produce less profit?

Like if the argument is that making a realistic sim will result in the best game....I agree with you totally.

If your argument is that the majority wants this kind of game....ea claims to have data that counters that.


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All I'm doing is expressing doubt with the data due to all available tools we have as consumers disagrees with it, a majority not all. That's all, I'm not saying EA has to do anything but from my perspective their data doesnt match up with reality and what is said about the game.

[aholbert32]

Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

All I'm doing is expressing doubt with the data due to all available tools we have as consumers disagrees with it, a majority not all. That's all, I'm not saying EA has to do anything but from my perspective their data doesnt match up with reality and what is said about the game.

The issue I have with that statement is that you appear to be discounting the fact that ea is using the same data that you are. They come to OS. They go to Reddit. YouTube. Discord.

They see the same threads you do. They just have other ways to collect data.

Let’s put this in a different way. Let’s take an election. Let’s say there are 6 counties in a state. You have data of from one county that says candidate A will win. Someone else has data from all 6 that says Candidate B will win.

Sure based on your data, you think A will win but you have to accept that your data is incomplete. So the fact that your data says something different doesn’t really matter.

I also wonder why people always ignore the questions I presented earlier. Like if you even take a second to think about it, it doesn’t make sense why EA would go in the opposite the direction of sim if sim was the most profitable approach. If that’s what the majority wants, it’s a no brainer to go in that direction.


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[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

The issue I have with that statement is that you appear to be discounting the fact that ea is using the same data that you are. They come to OS. They go to Reddit. YouTube. Discord.

They see the same threads you do. They just have other ways to collect data.

Let’s put this in a different way. Let’s take an election. Let’s say there are 6 counties in a state. You have data of from one county that says candidate A will win. Someone else has data from all 6 that says Candidate B will win.

Sure based on your data, you think A will win but you have to accept that your data is incomplete. So the fact that your data says something different doesn’t really matter.

I also wonder why people always ignore the questions I presented earlier. Like if you even take a second to think about it, it doesn’t make sense why EA would go in the opposite the direction of sim if sim was the most profitable approach. If that’s what the majority wants, it’s a no brainer to go in that direction.


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That's a flawed analogy as we dont know how much data EA have so we don't know how big the countries would be. With the size of the community and active online player base we can assume that what we have access to is <10% of the online player base.