Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

[johnmangala]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Correct. I will ignore all of your points regarding gameplay since I'm under no obligation to discuss gameplay with you. I am willing to discuss your alleged past contributions to the game though in a comical manner as long as you continue to directly address me.

Once you decide to no longer reply or address me in anyway, I will return to ignoring you as I have in the past.

What about L3 as the input for sprinting?

[aholbert32]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

What about L3 as the input for sprinting?

Nah, I don’t want to talk about that but we can talk about Matt Serra though.


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[Phillyboi207]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Well that escalated quickly

Can we come back to the idea of a lateral movement option?

I actually think John had a good idea for the input. Have it mimic the stiff arm retreat but for left/right input.

Allow both sides to use it and be vulnerable to leg kicks/rounded strikes to the side you’re circling towards.

[johnmangala]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Nah, I don’t want to talk about that but we can talk about Matt Serra though.


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This is embarrassing. How are you allowed to go off topic regularly but threaten to ban me few months ago for 'spamming' yet here you are spamming this thread with irrelevant personal attacks.

L3 allows us to condense sprinting into one input while free 2 others in the process. Click L3 and you can sprint forward or back.

If lateral sprinting/circling were added, it could be as simple as clicking L3 and moving sideways.

[Kingslayer04]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Well that escalated quickly

Can we come back to the idea of a lateral movement option?

I actually think John had a good idea for the input. Have it mimic the stiff arm retreat but for left/right input.

Allow both sides to use it and be vulnerable to leg kicks/rounded strikes to the side you’re circling towards.

Exactly, yeah, I see nothing wrong with it. I think some people should be able to do it faster though (Thompson, Machida). I actually wonder if everyone should be able to do it. I don't really imagine Derrick Lewis strafing like that. We should think about these things if we want it to be realistic.

[1212headkick]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

No I didnt. I said I would "discuss" that idea with Philly. You really have to focus on the words I'm actually using not the ones you want me to say. I've never used the word "promote."

Also, this isnt my profession. I have no obligation to be professional. I dont get paid to be a GC. My only responsibility as a GC is to discuss the game with the devs and give input to the devs. I dont have to talk to you or anyone at OS about the game. I'm not obligated to do anything related to this forum. I was named a GC because the devs liked the offline input I gave for UFC1. No one voted me in.

Thats the case with all GCs across the board. I cant recall ever seeing a Madden or Fifa or Live GC come to OS and regularly discuss issues with the game. Thats not a part of the position.

So I dont have to respond to your opinions or ideas about the game...and I wont. I will respond to anything I want to as long as you keep addressing me. You want it to stop...stop replying.

I’m sure it has NOTHING to do with your best friend owning the site right? Come on man.... everyone has the right to human decency. I think the point here is we need another method of communicating our ideas to the devs because **** that was complained about early last year still hasn’t been fixed. Takedowns fixed? Nah double unders reversal. Pressure fixed? Nah jabs still op along with combos. And god knows just how many fighters are missing who should of been in at launch. I swear everywhere there’s a sim idea getting derailed you are not far off

[Haz____]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

This game isn't even remotely close to Street Fighter, or any of those kinds of games; you're dragging it with that hyperbole.

Personally, I'm just hoping for more immersive grappling, and a solid game where every playstyle is viable.

Ok so,
heres there entire post which you replied to:

Lets say theres 10,000 active players; we can agree the active player base is at least 10,000 players still right? So ok, now lets look at the top 100-- The "comp" players that "don't want running". Thats only 1% of the entire base...... So we are seriously making decisions based on what 1% of the player base wants?

Ok next youre talking about what ESFL players want. So now we are talking about like 0.1% of the player base. So now we are making decisions based on what 0.1% of the player base wants?

In what universe does either of those scenerios make sense?






How about you just base the game on the sport its supposed to emulate, and stop worrying about making Street Fighter with MMA skins.

-- And if we are talking about Esports, well, no serious fighting game players take UFC seriously anyway-- so there's again, just a very tiny demographic looking at UFC as an actual Esport. That's just fantasy land in all honesty, and isn't going to happen. So designing based around that idea makes no sense either.


Now the arguement that the top players know the game best, so they know what the game needs is also extremely flawed. They know the game best, yes, but they also have an innate and dramatic bias; which is to a meta which they have learned, mastered, and gives them Ws. They know what the game needs to be more authentic, but they also know what they want, which is more often than not, far from authenticity. They have an automatic subjective bias against new mechanics, because the current systems they already have mastered.

Many of these players openly admit they could care less about realism... Which makes no sense to me on a personal level; why are you even playing an MMA game then at that point? Their opinions have no more weight to them than the sim players, because they also are looking for a specific, tailored game experience. The only difference is their vision of the game, pushes it further and further from the path of authenticity, and replicating the sport its supposed to be replicating-- And more and more into a weird super niche video gamey fantasy world that only a very verrrry small amount of players actually want or enjoy.





The thing is. You could introduce any mechanic you can imagine, and guys like Kinetic would still be top players. These guys are top players because they are amazing gamers. It has nothing to do with the current meta being "balanced", which it isn't anyways.

Top players are always going to be the top players. So stop worrying about further catering the game to them. Stop designing the game for 1% of the player base.

So out of that entire post, and the multiple points I made, the only thing you felt compelled to reply to is the words "Street Fighter"?

You know exactly what I mean... I'm not saying UFC has Power bars, and Hadukens... I'm not sayiny UFC is Street Fighter, or Tekken, or Dead or Alive. Im saying they are modeling their game design off the concepts and mechanics in Competitive Fighters instead of focusing on the authenticity of the sport.. This point is obvious, and not even debated. That's even part of Aberts arguement; that comp players want a comp fighter, regardless of realism.

Which at that point just go play Mortal Kombat or any other comp fighter, like Tweedy did. There are already plenty of games which fill that demographic.

However, this type of sole focus on semantics instead of concepts is entirely a deflection tactic. I see this way too often on these boards. Someone has an interesting idea and then a few members come in and argue for 4 pages about semantics and bam, thread derailed. Happens constantly, and this is the only forum where ive seen this phenomenon so prevelantly.


I'm glad you agree that all styles should be represented though. As of now, many styles are possible, but pressure is still by farrrrr the most dominant force in the current meta. I don't think that's even up for debate. It's just how this game currently functions.





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*edit* Tone can be hard to convey via txt, so I just want to be absolutely clear, this is in no way attacking Romero. Romero is cool as hell, always been chill to me, and is a super legit player. Nothing but respect.

[aholbert32]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

This is embarrassing. How are you allowed to go off topic regularly but threaten to ban me few months ago for 'spamming' yet here you are spamming this thread with irrelevant personal attacks.

L3 allows us to condense sprinting into one input while free 2 others in the process. Click L3 and you can sprint forward or back.

If lateral sprinting/circling were added, it could be as simple as clicking L3 and moving sideways.

I. Can’t. Ban. You. LOL

Stop addressing me and this ends.


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[aholbert32]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

I’m sure it has NOTHING to do with your best friend owning the site right? Come on man.... everyone has the right to human decency. I think the point here is we need another method of communicating our ideas to the devs because **** that was complained about early last year still hasn’t been fixed. Takedowns fixed? Nah double unders reversal. Pressure fixed? Nah jabs still op along with combos. And god knows just how many fighters are missing who should of been in at launch. I swear everywhere there’s a sim idea getting derailed you are not far off

Lol!!! Steve Noah is my best friend?

Yo that is ****ing hilarious. I like Steve. He’s a great guy. I met him about 15 yrs ago at E3. Once. As usual you have no idea what you are talking about.

You can try to hang the fact that many of the sim ideas that you and others want get derailed and never happen. I mean it’s not true but if you want a scapegoat....I’ll be that guy.

Or you can face facts that maybe your approach doesn’t work. Maybe you need to get better at expressing your thoughts and ideas. Maybe you need to accept that the game caters to a lot of different players who may or may not agree with you.

But you can blame me if that makes you feel better. Only question is who are you going to blame when I never respond to gameplay questions/threads? I already don’t respond to like 90% of them so I can’t be having that much of an effect on your ability to get **** added.



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[johnmangala]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

I. Can’t. Ban. You. LOL

Stop addressing me and this ends.


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Why are you ignoring a reasonable idea because you don't like me? Even people that usually support you agree. That's the definition of prejudice and discrimination. Not taking arguments at face value but instead focusing on me instead.

You specifically asked me for ideas that are basically unanimous between comp, sim, and casuals. I gave you an idea that is not only that but also relevant to this thread topic.

Alot of people (including comp) complain about sprinting being unintuitive in this game. You rarely see people use it, even at the higher levels like ESFL and top 100 ranked. A major reason is the double flick towards input is obstructive, it changes from straight towards to diagonal at angles, this isn't explained only learnt by experience.

L3 is far more accessible and allows us to sprint back and forth or even laterally if circling is added. For as much as you harp on casuals and comp, both benefit from a more user friendly input for such a basic function as sprint.

Sprint (and lateral sprint/circling) can be used offensively or defensively and is a matter a skill.

[johnmangala]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Or you can face facts that maybe your approach doesnt work. Maybe you need to get better at expressing your thoughts and ideas. Maybe you need to accept that the game caters to a lot of different players who may or may not agree with you.

But you can blame me if that makes you feel better. Only question is who are you going to blame when I never respond to gameplay questions/threads? I already don’t respond to like 90% of them so I can’t be having that much of an effect on your ability to get **** added.



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So what does that entail? You always criticize the method but haven't specified here what you want to see improved. I mean exactly things so there is transparent criteria.

Before something predictable like go to other sites and find consensus. I mean how exactly do you want people to present their ideas? What approach do you recommend. Simply put, you have said what not to do but not what to do exactly.

What's your criteria? Like a judge it shouldn't be ambiguous, rather clear.

[1212headkick]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Fight night did well because it mimicked the sport and there were pro leagues and big tournaments. Mma fans play this because they dont want to play an arcade fighter. Someones feelings gotta get hurt here. The majority do want a sim experience. Just read the forbes article or USER reviews on metacritic. You lose fans the more unrealistic you make the game

[aholbert32]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Why are you ignoring a reasonable idea because you don't like me? Even people that usually support you agree. That's the definition of prejudice and discrimination. Not taking arguments at face value but instead focusing on me instead.

You specifically asked me for ideas that are basically unanimous between comp, sim, and casuals. I gave you an idea that is not only that but also relevant to this thread topic.

Alot of people (including comp) complain about sprinting being unintuitive in this game. You rarely see people use it, even at the higher levels like ESFL and top 100 ranked. A major reason is the double flick towards input is obstructive, it changes from straight towards to diagonal at angles, this isn't explained only learnt by experience.

L3 is far more accessible and allows us to sprint back and forth or even laterally if circling is added. For as much as you harp on casuals and comp, both benefit from a more user friendly input for such a basic function as sprint.

Sprint (and lateral sprint/circling) can be used offensively or defensively and is a matter a skill.

Why do you need me to respond to your idea?

This isnt prejudice. I havent prejudged you in anyway. My reason for not responding is based solely on my past experiences with you. This isnt discrimination. I respond to plenty of sim minded people. I just wont respond to you.

You need to let it go at this point because I'm not going to respond to you about your point. You have plenty of people here who have already responded. You can send your idea to GPD on Twitter. You can PM the 6 other GCs.

You just wont get what you want from me.

[RomeroXVII]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

Ok so,
heres there entire post which you replied to:




So out of that entire post, and the multiple points I made, the only thing you felt compelled to reply to is the words "Street Fighter"?

You know exactly what I mean... I'm not saying UFC has Power bars, and Hadukens... I'm not sayiny UFC is Street Fighter, or Tekken, or Dead or Alive. Im saying they are modeling their game design off the concepts and mechanics in Competitive Fighters instead of focusing on the authenticity of the sport.. This point is obvious, and not even debated. That's even part of Aberts arguement; that comp players want a comp fighter, regardless of realism.

Which at that point just go play Mortal Kombat or any other comp fighter, like Tweedy did. There are already plenty of games which fill that demographic.

However, this type of sole focus on semantics instead of concepts is entirely a deflection tactic. I see this way too often on these boards. Someone has an interesting idea and then a few members come in and argue for 4 pages about semantics and bam, thread derailed. Happens constantly, and this is the only forum where ive seen this phenomenon so prevelantly.


I'm glad you agree that all styles should be represented though. As of now, many styles are possible, but pressure is still by farrrrr the most dominant force in the current meta. I don't think that's even up for debate. It's just how this game currently functions.





¬¬¬¬¬¬
*edit* Tone can be hard to convey via txt, so I just want to be absolutely clear, this is in no way attacking Romero. Romero is cool as hell, always been chill to me, and is a super legit player. Nothing but respect.

No problem my guy. Yep, I specifically replied to that part because it was the only one where I feel that needed to be addressed. In general with regards to pressure, I definitely feel where the point is coming from.

The few things that nullifies pressure in game is a superior grappler i.e using the clinch, hit stun TDs and GA TDs, and once you get them to the ground, denials have to be on point. And, from a realistic perspective, I'm not even a fan of the grappling in game and I'm a wrestler, but that's why we're here as a community to HELP give solid feedback without having to bash the GCs, Dev's, etc etc.

If they didn't care about how we felt, we would have been left with the various issues we had in the beginning of the game. Geoff even dropped a tuner that really helps against pressure with regards to getting rocked and whatnot.

I think out of every single MMA game that has been created, in terms of fluidity (especially offline) this game has done extremely well. I love the striking in game, I love the undeniable TDs, low singles, cage animations that were added, so many things. But like everything, things can always be done better and since we know UFC 4 is confirmed, now is the time to speak up and let what you desire to be in the next game have a chance to be implemented, as long as it comes with concise reasoning.

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[RomeroXVII]

Re: Circling Out --- Sprint Option For UFC 4

I agree we definitely need a better and quicker way to circle the cage. What we have now isn't enough. I also made an idea about a quick cage circling mechanic sometime last year. Was able to dig it up, so i'll just post it here...




Quick Shuffling


The Way it Works: So similar to the quick retreat(the new backward evasive movement we got in the recent patch), holding the two shoulder buttons and moving your fighter laterally will result in your fighter quickly shuffling to the desired side. And just like the quick retreat, this movement will have increased speed, keep your defenses up and will drain stamina. The general movement should look like this...





Using the Quick Shuffle to Circle off or Cut off the Cage: So pretty much the main thing this movement can be used for is to circle off or to cut off the cage like irl. So as a fighter who's back is headed towards or against the cage, you can simply use the quick shuffle to escape and circle off to your left/right. Below we see Wonderboy gets a bit stuck by the cage and uses the quick shuffle along the cage to his right to relieve Woodleys pressure...



In another scenario, we see both guys using it. Weidman lands a kick that backs Machida into the cage and Machida quickly shuffles to his right. Weidman responds with a quick shuffle of his own in that direction, cutting off the cage...





Using Head Movement and Lunges with the Quick Shuffle:Along with using the quick shuffle to escape in a certain direction, you would also be able to tie head movement into it and lunge out of it. So for example, say you're stuck against the cage and begin quick shuffling to a side to escape. If your opponent charges in with a strike and you see it coming, you would be able to slip the strike with head movement (in all directions except back of course) while shuffling or lunge out of the shuffle in the desired direction. Below is a visual example of Woodley using head movement while quick shuffling, to slip a Wonderboy left straight...



In another gif, we see Wonderboy shuffling to his right and quickly lunging out of it to his left to avoid a Hendricks right hand...





Stats and the Quick Shuffle: Like most things, this movement will also be affected by fighters stats. So for example, Wonderboy will have a faster quick shuffle than say Maia, because of his higher footwork stat. Or Anderson Silva will have quicker slips out of the quick shuffle than DC does, because of his higher head movement stat.

Please, in the midst of all of this senseless arguing, don't let this be lost in the thread. This is a REALLLY good thing that should be implemented in the next game.