Poll: Blocking While Using Head Movement

[Pappy Knuckles]

Re: Poll: Blocking While Using Head Movement

I like this response a lot.

If one were to block head while swaying, I would like to see a lot of extra vulnerability to leg kicks or body strikes. Someone keeps Planting their feet and swaying/blocking high ---- CHOP CHOP at the Liver or Calf! Takedown / Clinch defense too, if your hands are up and you're moving your head, you'd be more vulnerabie for sure.

Swaying into a strike with your hands up would still lead to some decent bleed-thru (maybe a LOT depending on timing/strike/location). Perhaps you take an accuracy / strike speed penalty for your counter strike, as well.

i.e. if you keep your hands down and move your head, you can SNAP back at your opponent (Roy Jones / Anderson Silva style) --- if you have your hands up, a bit harder to get that slick counter off.

20 "Yes" to 4 "No" so far, but I want to keep hearing some more discussion! Looks like we can all at least agree that reactive head movement needs to be improved big time.


P.S. I hated UFC 1s Weak Block SO MUCH so I don't want anything like that lmao that mechanic itself pretty much made me quit the game 2 months after launch.

Watching my man Robbie Lawler fight Covington now - dude is such a good example for this thread. Specifically, a couple of short moments in the first or second when he's covering up. I know everyone remembers the way he survived against RDA too. Hopefully, UFC 4 surprises us.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Poll: Blocking While Using Head Movement

I like this response a lot.

If one were to block head while swaying, I would like to see a lot of extra vulnerability to leg kicks or body strikes. Someone keeps Planting their feet and swaying/blocking high ---- CHOP CHOP at the Liver or Calf! Takedown / Clinch defense too, if your hands are up and you're moving your head, you'd be more vulnerabie for sure.

Swaying into a strike with your hands up would still lead to some decent bleed-thru (maybe a LOT depending on timing/strike/location). Perhaps you take an accuracy / strike speed penalty for your counter strike, as well.

i.e. if you keep your hands down and move your head, you can SNAP back at your opponent (Roy Jones / Anderson Silva style) --- if you have your hands up, a bit harder to get that slick counter off.

20 "Yes" to 4 "No" so far, but I want to keep hearing some more discussion! Looks like we can all at least agree that reactive head movement needs to be improved big time.


P.S. I hated UFC 1s Weak Block SO MUCH so I don't want anything like that lmao that mechanic itself pretty much made me quit the game 2 months after launch.

My ideas for balancing block + sway

1) Make counters harder. You’d pretty much only be able to counter strike against a big strike’s whiff

2) Block strength halved, bleed through doubled. This means you’d have to be cautious instead of recklessly using it.

3) Even higher stamina tax than current head movement. Same as 2, punishes people for spamming.

4) Harder to deny TDs. You wanna block and sway? Good luck stuffing doubles or low singles. At the same time I think clinches should be easier to deny since your hands are up.

5) Extra vulnerability to legs and body. If you’re super focused on defending the head you leave your lower half exposed.

I think with all of these it shouldnt be seen as anything like weak block.

[SUGATA]

Re: Poll: Blocking While Using Head Movement

My ideas for balancing block + sway

1) Make counters harder. You’d pretty much only be able to counter strike against a big strike’s whiff

2) Block strength halved, bleed through doubled. This means you’d have to be cautious instead of recklessly using it.

3) Even higher stamina tax than current head movement. Same as 2, punishes people for spamming.

4) Harder to deny TDs. You wanna block and sway? Good luck stuffing doubles or low singles. At the same time I think clinches should be easier to deny since your hands are up.

5) Extra vulnerability to legs and body. If you’re super focused on defending the head you leave your lower half exposed.

I think with all of these it shouldnt be seen as anything like weak block.

Low counter opportunity, weaker defense, more stamina cost, higher Grapple disadvantage, I may add + slower movement, penalty for follow up steps, etc = so, what is the reason / function to use this Blocking Swaying?

Btw, most of this “balancing” had Weak Block in UFC1, it was a “Block for lazy/beginners”, and it was bad. It is nearly impossible to tune it right (takes much resources) in UFC game - Weak Block was tuned many times w no success.

[Phillyboi207]

Re: Poll: Blocking While Using Head Movement

Low counter opportunity, weaker defense, more stamina cost, higher Grapple disadvantage, I may add + slower movement, penalty for follow up steps, etc = so, what is the reason / function to use this Blocking Swaying?

Btw, most of this “balancing” had Weak Block in UFC1, it was a “Block for lazy/beginners”, and it was bad. It is nearly impossible to tune it right (takes much resources) in UFC game - Weak Block was tuned many times w no success.

Purpose/function would be a safer defensive option. Like the difference between blocking while lunging and lunging normally.

Best used to combat head hunting combo “spammers”.

Also serves as a safer option when closing distance. Most dudes will mix headmovement and blocking while coming forward instead of just a high guard or with their hands down using head movement.

But I will acknowledge I dunno if it could be balanced with the way blocking currently works. Imo block strength needs to be weakened across the board before adding things like parries and blocking + headmovement.

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: Poll: Blocking While Using Head Movement

Low counter opportunity, weaker defense, more stamina cost, higher Grapple disadvantage, I may add + slower movement, penalty for follow up steps, etc = so, what is the reason / function to use this Blocking Swaying?

Btw, most of this “balancing” had Weak Block in UFC1, it was a “Block for lazy/beginners”, and it was bad. It is nearly impossible to tune it right (takes much resources) in UFC game - Weak Block was tuned many times w no success.

You haven't replied to my response to your original post pal.

[SUGATA]

Re: Poll: Blocking While Using Head Movement

Purpose/function would be a safer defensive option. Like the difference between blocking while lunging and lunging normally.

Best used to combat head hunting combo “spammers”.

.

Btw, i was AGAINST Blocking Steps too

I still dont think that Blocking steps is a good idea and they are balanced.

[SUGATA]

Re: Poll: Blocking While Using Head Movement

I am AGAINST the Blocking during Sways (and may be the only one, it is OK for me =), b/c:

1) Sway and Blocking are 2 different defensive mechanics with its own + and -. So, choosing wisely which one to use just now is a question to skill, strategy and yomi = gameplay diversity.

Otherwise, 2in1 = no diversity, less gameplay depth = less skill, strategy and yomi. 2in1 combi def tools is always worse, harder to balance an tune, and harder to implement right into gameplay.

2) IRL it is not possible to block fully and effectively during full Sways, possible only partially with less effectiveness.

Otherwise, implementing partial "Weak" Block during Sway - will be difficult and bring more random unpredictable results for BOTH players = less skill reliable game, less predictable gameplay.

3) As said above, UFC UD does not have Blocking Sways - it was a smart decision. Many players counting UFC UD as one of the best UFC sim games.

Why also good game FNC has it and is still fine? b/c this is a BOXING game not UFC - i.e. b/c in UFC besides Blocking and Sways you also have many other defensive tools (which are not available in Boxing), which ALSO has its own pros/cons:
- Parry into Clinch (i hope to see in UFC 4)

- Sway into TD

- Kicks has large Stopping power and range.

IF we will have 2in1 Blocking Sway it WILL NEGLECT other UFC def tools and will be a Blocking Sway festival.

1) Being different doesnt mean they can't be used simultaneously, rolling with shots is blocking while swaying. Plenty of boxers slip shots with there guard up, having you hands low only allows you to have better upper body control.

Also more tools = more diversity not less.

2) No. Bringing more in depth defence brings more skill to the game in both attack and defense. It won't bring any randomness in as it will be built like the rest of the game. If used correctly it makes the block stronger.

3) No. It will make the game more realsitic and if that's the chosen method of defense, most common in real life, is that a bad thing? Other defensive tools should be added in addition to even it out.

1) Different mechanics with its own + and - in the GAME means they WERE supposed to be used NOT simultaneously, b/c they were balanced in this way of the usage.

2) 2in1 Bocking Sway is NOT "in depth defense", b/c this is lazy defensive tool = no skill.
To become in depth, Blocking sway needs to have its OWN UNIQUE features and pros and cons... and it must to be awesome balanced together with ALL OTHERS def tools, which is nearly impossible by low cost (resources).

3) You want one irl element to be brought to the game , so you must want the others too.
For example: we are playing with side pov Camera, not with fpv camera = it is more difficult for us to read Tyson's peek a boo left-right style...
We are talking about the GAME. Any game (even sim game) always has a RESTRICTIONS and game conventions.

I am not against Blocking sway in _absolute_ term. I am a fan of REALISM and SIM games instead of arcadish casual games. BUT I am against this one at the current gameplay level: it is not necessary, it is not the priority, it is difficult to balance, it takes too much resources, it is very easy to become OP'ed = just not now.

[Lauriedr1ver]

Re: Poll: Blocking While Using Head Movement

1) Different mechanics with its own + and - in the GAME means they WERE supposed to be used NOT simultaneously, b/c they were balanced in this way of the usage.

2) 2in1 Bocking Sway is NOT "in depth defense", b/c this is lazy defensive tool = no skill.
To become in depth, Blocking sway needs to have its OWN UNIQUE features and pros and cons... and it must to be awesome balanced together with ALL OTHERS def tools, which is nearly impossible by low cost (resources).

3) You want one irl element to be brought to the game , so you must want the others too.
For example: we are playing with side pov Camera, not with fpv camera = it is more difficult for us to read Tyson's peek a boo left-right style...
We are talking about the GAME. Any game (even sim game) always has a RESTRICTIONS and game conventions.

I am not against Blocking sway in _absolute_ term. I am a fan of REALISM and SIM games instead of arcadish casual games. BUT I am against this one at the current gameplay level: it is not necessary, it is not the priority, it is difficult to balance, it takes too much resources, it is very easy to become OP'ed = just not now.

1) 2 different defensive mechanics can be used simultaneously in real life. If implemented correctly there is no reason why they couldn't be used in this way in the game. It would have its own pros and cons but so does everything.

2) Yes it is in depth. Being able to roll shots to mitigate damage, move away from power shots, slip straight punches etc etc is more in depth than we have currently. It's not lazy no skill less. It's not that hard, it's just blending the current block with RS and finding middle grounds between the 2.

3) I want lots of IRL brought to the game, not just one. I agree not everything can be brought into the game but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to get as much as possible.

It is neccasry as it is used frequently and across all levels of the sport, defense is a priority in striking so yes it is a priority, everything costs resources but the foundations are alresdy there and again the foundations are already there to be built on.

[Boiler569]

Re: Poll: Blocking While Using Head Movement

Watching my man Robbie Lawler fight Covington now - dude is such a good example for this thread. Specifically, a couple of short moments in the first or second when he's covering up. I know everyone remembers the way he survived against RDA too. Hopefully, UFC 4 surprises us.

Yup I was thinking the same exact thing re: Lawler Block & Sway

Of course, he gave up a lot of TDs staying Defensive and predictable like that Damn I was rooting for him too......

[Boiler569]

Re: Poll: Blocking While Using Head Movement

2) 2in1 Bocking Sway is NOT "in depth defense", b/c this is lazy defensive tool = no skill.
To become in depth, Blocking sway needs to have its OWN UNIQUE features and pros and cons... and it must to be awesome balanced together with ALL OTHERS def tools, which is nearly impossible by low cost (resources).

I am not against Blocking sway in _absolute_ term. I am a fan of REALISM and SIM games instead of arcadish casual games. BUT I am against this one at the current gameplay level: it is not necessary, it is not the priority, it is difficult to balance, it takes too much resources, it is very easy to become OP'ed = just not now.

I Definitely agree that we don't want to just add in the ability to block & sway at the same time using current Pros/Cons and gameplay mechanics.

If you'd rather see those resources put towards better Clinch, Ground, and Scramble mechanics.....and leave Stand-up the way it is....I'm relatively OK with that for UFC 4. Stand-up is in a pretty darn good spot as is, so I'd rather have No New Features than features implemented poorly.

But if/when Stand-up is worked on again, I think being able to move head + block is an imporant priority.

In fact, I think the next Stand-Up priority needs to be an overhaul of the BLOCKING, ACCURACY & HIT DETECTION system, and head movement & sway is just one part of that overhaul.

I could go off on a tangent about all the things I'd like to see improved in the Blocking/Accuracy/Detection area....but I gotta get back to work perhaps another day

P.S. Here is a thread I posted awhile ago that gets into some of the imporvements I'd like to see in Blocking, specifically

https://forums.operationsports.com/f...eeded-now.html

[SUGATA]

Re: Poll: Blocking While Using Head Movement

To those who want Blocking Sway like it was in FNC.
In FNC:
- was only ONE Block button (no mix ups)
- was not possible to HOLDING Block b/c then strikes goes through (you was needed to press Block just before opponent’s incoming strike)
- the same rules for Swaying

So, w this scheme Blocking Sway was almost balanced.

But it will not be balanced in EA UFC b/c hold Block is still active and effective, especially w mitigating dmg via sway.

[Boiler569]

Re: Poll: Blocking While Using Head Movement

Fight Night Round 4 had Hi & Low block...I preferred it to FNC from what I recall, though FNC had at least a semi-intelligent "weak block" instead of it just being a forcefield lol

I'd like to add that it'd certainly be ideal if one's Block and Head Movement stats made a huge impact as it relates to your ability to successfully cover up while using head movement.

i.e. affect how much damage bleeds through; how quickly you can counter off a "block sway"; how much stamina loss is involved; etc.

SUGATA don't forget that MMA, compared to Boxing, has:

* Smaller Gloves
* Heavier Strikes (i.e. Swaying into a CroCop HeadKick with your hands up.....won't really save your ***)
* Takedowns/Clinch
* Leg Kicks!!!

So while I love my Fight Night, I definitely don't expect a UFC head movement/block mechanic to function like in that franchise much at all. And I think, given all the weapons and opportunities to strike/grapple/etc.....creating such a system and balancing it, while it would take some resources, would pay off in spades for many years to come

[Boiler569]

Re: Poll: Blocking While Using Head Movement

Meant to post this after the Romero fight (just started new job so been too busy @ work to post lol)....

I can recall at least one time when Romero had his feet planted, tried to block and move his head for an extended period of time (predictable), and ate two heavy leg kicks and a solid body kick, all 3 strikes within just a few seconds of one another.

Perfect counters to Romero's defense by Costa, and the next level of tactical striking I'd love to see in UFC 4.

21 YES and 4 NO .... looks like it's pretty clear the community also supports being able to block while using head movement (but of course, it needs to be done properly )