PETITION TO REMOVE CAFS FROM ROSTER RANKED.

[RyanFitzmagic]

Re: PETITION TO REMOVE CAFS FROM ROSTER RANKED.

Heavyweight has an absence of a pure kickboxer like Adesanya.

JDS?

Light heavyweight has an absence of a pure grappler like Maia.

Cormier? He's not BJJ like Maia, but he's arguably the best wrestler in UFC history. That counts as grappling in my book.

Welterweight has an absence of a pure kickboxer again.

Darren Till?

Featherweight has an absence of a pure wrestler like Khabib or GSP.

Chad Mendes?

Bantamweight has an absence of a grinding wrestler like Usman.

Maybe Cruz? He wins lots of decisions with his wrestling.

Flyweight has an absence of a pure kickboxer.

Dodson?

I'm no expert, just my best guesses. The UFC roster is deep as hell tbh.

[Zyaf]

Re: PETITION TO REMOVE CAFS FROM ROSTER RANKED.

JDS?


Cormier? He's not BJJ like Maia, but he's arguably the best wrestler in UFC history. That counts as grappling in my book.


Darren Till?


Chad Mendes?


Maybe Cruz? He wins lots of decisions with his wrestling.


Dodson?

I'm no expert, just my best guesses. The UFC roster is deep as hell tbh.

Wouldn't say JDS is a pure kickboxer. He's best known for his boxing and doesn't really have a great kicking arsenal at his disposal.
I can give you Cormier, but he's not a pure grappler. He's a striker too and not a BJJ artist.
Till is fair, forgot about him.

Chad Mendes is not a wrestler with a good gas tank, which doesn't make him a viable option for extreme wrestling.

Eh, Cruz is more of an outside fighter than anything. Mostly gets takedowns but can't control.

Haven't used Dodson much so I couldn't tell you.

[RyanFitzmagic]

Re: PETITION TO REMOVE CAFS FROM ROSTER RANKED.

Chad Mendes is not a wrestler with a good gas tank

He's not? How would you describe his style?

[Zyaf]

Re: PETITION TO REMOVE CAFS FROM ROSTER RANKED.

He's not? How would you describe his style?

Mostly talking about in the game. It's hard to get takedowns in general in this game, and then he doesn't have very good cardio on top of that. Usually end up gassing out trying to wrestle.

[Counter Punch]

Re: PETITION TO REMOVE CAFS FROM ROSTER RANKED.

Refer to my previous comment.
"If a certain style doesn't exist at a certain weight class - such as no pure BJJ artist at light heavyweight - there shouldn't be a way to implement them just by creating a CAF. This only makes people 1-dimensional and ruins the whole point of making people cycle weight classes, since they can just use the same character anyway (or basically the same), doesn't it?"
People are allowed to create completely new styles for weight classes that shouldn't have those styles. Thus, it removes the competitive aspect of choosing your character. Why select a real fighter when you can fine-tune one to fit your style? Part of competitive play is choosing a fighter that fits your strengths and having to deal with that fighters' weaknesses. This removes that part.

That’s some pretty impressive mental gymnastics there, buddy.

“If a certain style doesn't exist at a certain weight class - such as no pure BJJ artist at light heavyweight - there shouldn't be a way to implement them just by creating a CAF“

So adding variety to the weight class automatically makes it unbalanced? Are you saying there are weight classes that have never had a BJJ specialist. You’re argument also relies on the presumption that the fighters in each weight class are already balanced, they aren’t. If balance is what you want then you should be campaigning for equalized stats, which CAFs wouldn’t affect at all. I bet you couldn’t give me an example of a weight class that would be made imbalanced with the inclusion of BJJ specialist, with an explanation as to why.
————-
“This only makes people 1-dimensional and ruins the whole point of making people cycle weight classes, since they can just use the same character anyway (or basically the same), doesn't it?"”

No, because the different weight classes are handled differently in the game. There is more power and fighters can generally take less damage at heavyweight for example, just like in real life. Fighters have more stamina at featherweight so they can keep up a higher pace, etc. Is choosing a 1 dimensional roster fighter somehow more balanced than a CAF?
————-
“People are allowed to create completely new styles for weight classes that shouldn't have those styles.”

Again, give me a specific example of a weight class that “shouldn’t” have a particular style. You can’t because that doesn’t make sense and isn’t reflective of MMA at all.
————
“Thus, it removes the competitive aspect of choosing your character. Why select a real fighter when you can fine-tune one to fit your style? Part of competitive play is choosing a fighter that fits your strengths and having to deal with that fighters' weaknesses. This removes that part”

You’re literally contradicting yourself here. It’s only competitive to choose your fighter if it’s a roster fighter? How does what you said about choosing a roster fighter differ at all from choosing a CAF. If anything the CAFs will be MORE balanced because their stats are being capped with balance in mind and will balance our each division by including styles that just BY CHANCE don’t happen to exist at this specific point in time. If you don’t trust the Devs ability to not have OP archetypes, then that’s a different discussion entirely, but it’s not the argument you or anyone else seems to be making.

I think people (not you specifically) are trying to make this awful argument about balance because if you were to admit that it’s about immersion and realism, that would make a lot of you total hypocrites in terms of 99% of the arguments you made on the forum about balance over realism.

[RomeroXVII]

Re: PETITION TO REMOVE CAFS FROM ROSTER RANKED.

UNLESS YOU ARE UNDENIABLY PASSIONATE ABOUT CAFS IN RANKED, AND WOULD NOT BUY THE GAME WITHOUT THIS, SIGN THE PETITION!

This absurd decision to include CAFs in ranked does SEVERAL THINGS:

1. It completely disincentivizes the use of realistic gameplans and strategies (why play realistically if you’re matched up against Lord Voldemort). Expect hellish levels of spam, and the relentless pursuit of cheesy, “win at all costs” tactics from higher level players whenever we get matched against a CAF user, simply so we can get the atrocity of a fight over with as quickly as possible.

2. It completely destroys the integrity and feeling of “realism” in ranked play. All sports games have an online mode for competition between REAL teams/fighters. NBA 2K, NHL, FIFA, Fight Night, you name it. UFC 4 will be the first major sports game in history to break this trend and allow movie characters to compete against official, licensed athletes in online ranked play.

3. This directive will allow for POSITIVE CHANGES IN OTHER AREAS OF THE GAME:

a)Offline CAF users will no longer be limited in their editing capacities simply to make sure their CAFs are “eligible” for ranked play - something most CAF enthusiasts never asked for in the first place!

b)Ranked mode can perhaps be revamped to allow for separate modes: Roster Only, OR Mixed. But again - even if this isn’t immediate - RANKED PLAY MUST BE ROSTER ONLY

4. And lastly, in case you’re really passionate about using a CAF online... YOU CAN STILL USE CAFS ONLINE in quick match. This proposal will NOT remove your ability to create, and play with CAFS online!

Pretty much hit the nail on the head here.

Just to restate my point for those who lack reading comprehension: If people want to have CAFs in their Ranked Championships, fine, have it. I want to play a Ranked Championships WITHOUT CAFs, and so do many others. Just like UT on UFC 3 had their own ranked, they can definitely separate them if needed.

Here's a decent compromise: Mixed Ranked Championships, and the Roster Ranked on its own. Don't force people who want to play competitive fights against fellow roster fighters, to play against CAFs online.

[HypeRNT]

Re: PETITION TO REMOVE CAFS FROM ROSTER RANKED.

As aholbert said -- they probably saw how many people used them in QF and wanted to give an incentive to use them in ranked. However, this does nothing to help the competitive scene, and in fact hurts it. If a certain style doesn't exist at a certain weight class - such as no pure BJJ artist at light heavyweight - there shouldn't be a way to implement them just by creating a CAF. This only makes people 1-dimensional and ruins the whole point of making people cycle weight classes, since they can just use the same character anyway (or basically the same), doesn't it?

The problem is that they hurt both communities by doing this change... They had to nerf the CAF's into the ground in order to squeeze them into ranked mode, which now limits the CAF's from being fun to use and being unique, into a limited half roster fighter half caf mess....


They needed to put more thought into it, i understand the cap on the CAF's' it makes sense, but we should be able to edit at least some of the moves of our caf, or some of the ratings as long as its underneath the ovr cap.....

what we have now is a very unhappy group of players that really are struggling to find the middle ground....If CAF"s are so popular, limiting them like how they did ufc 3 UT mode going from ufc 2 is not the play... we already saw that....pay attention please.... they are doing the same thing now..

In an mma game, limiting a CAF beyond the ovr CAP is never the play, that much is clear.

[Counter Punch]

Re: PETITION TO REMOVE CAFS FROM ROSTER RANKED.

Pretty much hit the nail on the head here.

Just to restate my point for those who lack reading comprehension: If people want to have CAFs in their Ranked Championships, fine, have it. I want to play a Ranked Championships WITHOUT CAFs, and so do many others. Just like UT on UFC 3 had their own ranked, they can definitely separate them if needed.

Here's a decent compromise: Mixed Ranked Championships, and the Roster Ranked on its own. Don't force people who want to play competitive fights against fellow roster fighters, to play against CAFs online.

I don’t lack reading comprehension. I just don’t feel like people should feel ENTITLED to have the game cater to their own specific desires without at least giving a decent explanation as to WHY it should be that way and how it wouldn’t hurt the game. I mean you can, but you shouldn’t expect anyone to care unless they already agree with you.

A good argument against what you’re saying is that it would split the playerbase. If you don’t think it would, then that means only a small number of people are going to be using CAFs to begin with.

[Good Grappler]

Re: PETITION TO REMOVE CAFS FROM ROSTER RANKED.

EA MMA had cafs in ranked and it was amazing. The most competitive ranked I've ever played. Can't sign this petition.

When CAFs are in ranked, no one knows what their opponent’s strengths and weaknesses are. The opponent isn’t a real person, so you don’t know if they’re a BJJ guy or a striker. You have to figure it out during the fight. As a result, you don’t enter fights with any form of strategy. You just “play for the win”. Which, by the way, gives rise to far less realistic, far more cheesy matchups.

When it’s roster vs roster, there’s a need for strategy. Each roster fighter has their own strengths and weaknesses - and therefore every matchup needs to be approached differently. When you’re using Usman against Diaz, you avoid the full guard and avoid getting into boxing exchanges.

The ranked scene with CAFs present is all about getting the W by any means possible. The ranked scene with roster only is all about getting the W by using your fighter against your opponent the way they would really fight in real life

Honestly why does this need to be explained? I’m starting to think people just genuinely don’t care about realism at all.

[SMOKEZERO]

Re: PETITION TO REMOVE CAFS FROM ROSTER RANKED.

As long as the options to play without CAFs exists, I’m good. The UT scheme spilling over to ranked is a disappointment. I will say, this forum is primarily against UT and avoids it due to the unbalanced pay to win advantage. That community is the ones sinking in a bunch of extra cash into the modes and EA is only going to try and get more of it this go around.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[Good Grappler]

Re: PETITION TO REMOVE CAFS FROM ROSTER RANKED.

A good argument against what you’re saying is that it would split the playerbase. If you don’t think it would, then that means only a small number of people are going to be using CAFs to begin with.

Say you pick Jorge Masvidal in ranked. You’re telling me it doesn’t make any difference to you if your opponent picks Nate Diaz, Conor McGregor, or Bill Gates? You genuinely don’t see anything more enjoyable in Masvidal vs Conor over Masvidal vs Bill Gates?

That’s just bizarre bro

[Counter Punch]

Re: PETITION TO REMOVE CAFS FROM ROSTER RANKED.

When CAFs are in ranked, no one knows what their opponent’s strengths and weaknesses are. The opponent isn’t a real person, so you don’t know if they’re a BJJ guy or a striker. You have to figure it out during the fight. As a result, you don’t enter fights with any form of strategy. You just “play for the win”. Which, by the way, gives rise to far less realistic, far more cheesy matchups.

When it’s roster vs roster, there’s a need for strategy. Each roster fighter has their own strengths and weaknesses - and therefore every matchup needs to be approached differently. When you’re using Usman against Diaz, you avoid the full guard and avoid getting into boxing exchanges.

The ranked scene with CAFs present is all about getting the W by any means possible. The ranked scene with roster only is all about getting the W by using your fighter against your opponent the way they would really fight in real life

Honestly why does this need to be explained? I’m starting to think people just genuinely don’t care about realism at all.

Then why not just ask for them to tell you what archetype you’re fighting against at the matchup screen? Boom strategy problem solved. Now you just have 12 more fighter to memorize, which adds depth and balances out stylistic holes in each division. You’re also assuming they haven’t already implemented this. If not, that would be a way simpler change to implement than removing CAFs from ranked entirely.

If your argument is about realism, you won’t get any argument from me. CAFs in ranked is super unrealistic.

[Counter Punch]

Re: PETITION TO REMOVE CAFS FROM ROSTER RANKED.

Say you pick Jorge Masvidal in ranked. You’re telling me it doesn’t make any difference to you if your opponent picks Nate Diaz, Conor McGregor, or Bill Gates? You genuinely don’t see anything more enjoyable in Masvidal vs Conor over Masvidal vs Bill Gates?

That’s just bizarre bro

Edit: like, you must not even watch MMA level of bizarre. Lol. Imagine literally not having any interest in simulating REAL fights in the most high tech MMA game ever made. “Nah who cares bro, using CAFs makes things interesting. Plus, we need to keep an inclusive culture! Not allowing CAFs excludes people!”

Because of my job, I’ve watched almost every PPV for the last 7 years, with very few exceptions.

I personally favor realism. I think that striving for realism creates balance because MMA is naturally a balanced sport.

I’m addressing the people disingenuously saying it’s about balance when it’s clearly not. Many of those same people who have shot down every suggestion I and a lot of others have made about realism in the name of “balance” and not ruining the “meta” a higher levels of competitive play. Realism has never matter until now when they can’t make a competitive or balance argument against something they don’t like.

[Good Grappler]

Re: PETITION TO REMOVE CAFS FROM ROSTER RANKED.

Then why not just ask for them to tell you what archetype you’re fighting against at the matchup screen? Boom strategy problem solved. Now you just have 12 more fighter to memorize, which adds depth and balances out stylistic holes in each division. You’re also assuming they haven’t already implemented this. If not, that would be a way simpler change to implement than removing CAFs from ranked entirely.

If your argument is about realism, you won’t get any argument from me. CAFs in ranked is super unrealistic.

Because that doesn’t solve the issue of it being unrealistic as hell. I don’t care if they tell me before the match:

“Bill Gates has tremendous boxing, a slick triangle, and the ability to remove your nipples from half guard”

I’m still fighting ****ing Bill Gates. I may try to avoid his half guard for the sake of my nipples but I’m not going to find the process immersive at all

[RyanFitzmagic]

Re: PETITION TO REMOVE CAFS FROM ROSTER RANKED.

The ranked scene with CAFs present is all about getting the W by any means possible. The ranked scene with roster only is all about getting the W by using your fighter against your opponent the way they would really fight in real life

"Any means possible" is always the name of the game in ranked, in any video game that has ever existed. Let's not pretend that CAFs in ranked is gonna change that.

Don't act like people wouldn't take a patient, methodical fighter like Jon Jones and throw at a higher volume than Holloway did against Ortega.