Appeal to developers

[daawod.messymess]

Re: Appeal to developers

UD3 without talking is the best MMA game. And it's amazing that I can compare the game of 2012 and the game 2018-2020. And the old game gives heat to modern games. The game feels really good even in 2020. The Legend

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[Counter Punch]

Re: Appeal to developers

I really hate how people keep calling it nostalgia as if those of us wanting a game more like UD3 haven't played it for years and we are only remembering it better than it was. I still play it to this day so it's not nostalgia. Go look at reddit, tons of people still calling it the goat. The number 2 post on there right now is about UD3. I'm not the only one.

The reason I like that game more is the grappling and modes. Sure it's not as pretty as EAs games. But EAs games arent that pretty graphically either. The fighters bodies in EAs games are awful. They all look like they were modeled after Dominick Reyes with those long torsos. At least UD3 made everyone look unique and like they should with the tech they had. The animation are really nice in EAs, especially for striking. Even though the animations we have are nice, we still don't have enough unique animations per fighter which we had in UD3. Animations are also better now in clinch, but we still need a lot more in the clinch for me to feel it's better than UD3. The ground grappling in EAs games is God awful. All the pausing and limited positions. I really hate it. Then there's the controls, what a convoluted mess.

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All I did was state my opinion. UD3 is the epitome of what a game for “casuals” would look like IMO. It’s far more arcadish than UFC 3 or 4, which I can understand would make it really popular. I loved UD3, but even if they remastered the game there’s no way I could go back to it after playing UFC 3.

[TheUFCVeteran]

Re: Appeal to developers

All I did was state my opinion. UD3 is the epitome of what a game for “casuals” would look like IMO. It’s far more arcadish than UFC 3 or 4, which I can understand would make it really popular. I loved UD3, but even if they remastered the game there’s no way I could go back to it after playing UFC 3.

Looks do not equal gameplay.

People get hung up on what it looks like. That's not always relevant, it's about how it plays, and it plays beautifully. Why do you think so many people still play it to get their fix? There is a small community who believe it's got the best from all areas: fun, realism, responsiveness, game modes, etc. It's not nostalgia.

It had the best stamina system to date (on simulation), a good damage system (linear or not, it would've been fine, and I admit that body/leg damage is too low) and a great grappling system and control scheme, same with submissions.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills sometimes when I see so many people say they prefer UFC 3, but then we all have our favourites so it is what it is, just giving my two cents.

[smokeface]

Re: Appeal to developers

All I did was state my opinion. UD3 is the epitome of what a game for “casuals” would look like IMO. It’s far more arcadish than UFC 3 or 4, which I can understand would make it really popular. I loved UD3, but even if they remastered the game there’s no way I could go back to it after playing UFC 3.

What exactly is your definition of a casual? I've spent thousands upon thousands of hours across all mma games since UD 2009. Sim fighting games are pretty much all I play. The ones I play most are UD3 and Fight Night Champion. I still play UFC 3 maybe once a week to a couple times a month because it's the only MMA game I can play competitively against other players. I would say "casual" players are definitely playing the newest shiniest game not UD3, lol.

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[Kenetic NRG]

Re: Appeal to developers

Looks do not equal gameplay.

People get hung up on what it looks like. That's not always relevant, it's about how it plays, and it plays beautifully. Why do you think so many people still play it to get their fix? There is a small community who believe it's got the best from all areas: fun, realism, responsiveness, game modes, etc. It's not nostalgia.

It had the best stamina system to date (on simulation), a good damage system (linear or not, it would've been fine, and I admit that body/leg damage is too low) and a great grappling system and control scheme, same with submissions.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills sometimes when I see so many people say they prefer UFC 3, but then we all have our favourites so it is what it is, just giving my two cents.

UD2/3 had some of the worst grappling mechanics in the history of the game. It doesn't hold a candle to the depth and system GPD implemented in UFC 2 & 3.

People often get hung up on all the 'fancy' stuff with UD3. When you actually look at the game mechanically and analyze it, it was incredibly exploitable. It was 100% a game designed for casual play. UD 3 is like taking the body of a lamborghini and then chucking a 2012 honda civic engine into it.

Your other points I won't argue, but I really can't stand when people try to claim UD3 had a better grappling system than EA UFC 2 & 3.

[TheUFCVeteran]

Re: Appeal to developers

UD2/3 had some of the worst grappling mechanics in the history of the game. It doesn't hold a candle to the depth and system GPD implemented in UFC 2 & 3.

People often get hung up on all the 'fancy' stuff with UD3. When you actually look at the game mechanically and analyze it, it was incredibly exploitable. It was 100% a game designed for casual play. UD 3 is like taking the body of a lamborghini and then chucking a 2012 honda civic engine into it.

Your other points I won't argue, but I really can't stand when people try to claim UD3 had a better grappling system than EA UFC 2 & 3.

Depth means nothing when it plays terribly in reality.

The UD3 system was simple but made for some of the best gameplay. Forget the punch flick glitch, it was all skill based and wasn't the same, boring old "wait, rabbit punch, deny, rabbit punch TRANSITION" that plagues UFC 2/3. It's not realistic in any way nor is it fun.

Plenty of guys who've practiced BJJ have said that they prefer UD3's grappling, I've seen it on forums and by some YouTubers. Undisputed 2010 I agree had a terrible ground game, that was because the horrible auto-block ruined it, and the sub system was... weird. Some odd updated version of their shining system from 2009, I never did quite fully understand it.

[RollTideRoll0929]

Re: Appeal to developers

Depth means nothing when it plays terribly in reality.

The UD3 system was simple but made for some of the best gameplay. Forget the punch flick glitch, it was all skill based and wasn't the same, boring old "wait, rabbit punch, deny, rabbit punch TRANSITION" that plagues UFC 2/3. It's not realistic in any way nor is it fun.

Plenty of guys who've practiced BJJ have said that they prefer UD3's grappling, I've seen it on forums and by some YouTubers. Undisputed 2010 I agree had a terrible ground game, that was because the horrible auto-block ruined it, and the sub system was... weird. Some odd updated version of their shining system from 2009, I never did quite fully understand it.

I think what I enjoyed best about UD3 was the fact that there was a takedown struggle, not just based on hitting the right button at the right time to deny it. Sure there should be timing based takedowns if say, your opponent whiffs on a head kick but there should definitely be a struggle with many of the takedowns when both fighters are facing each other. I feel like this element is missing from all the EA UFC games

[smokeface]

Re: Appeal to developers

Depth means nothing when it plays terribly in reality.

The UD3 system was simple but made for some of the best gameplay. Forget the punch flick glitch, it was all skill based and wasn't the same, boring old "wait, rabbit punch, deny, rabbit punch TRANSITION" that plagues UFC 2/3. It's not realistic in any way nor is it fun.

Plenty of guys who've practiced BJJ have said that they prefer UD3's grappling, I've seen it on forums and by some YouTubers. Undisputed 2010 I agree had a terrible ground game, that was because the horrible auto-block ruined it, and the sub system was... weird. Some odd updated version of their shining system from 2009, I never did quite fully understand it.

I think if we had a similar denial system to UD3, with the animations to accompany it, it could solve the pausing we see now. Maybe it could use some tweaks, but we need to be able to actively hold onto our opponent.

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[1212headkick]

Re: Appeal to developers

UD2/3 had some of the worst grappling mechanics in the history of the game. It doesn't hold a candle to the depth and system GPD implemented in UFC 2 & 3.

People often get hung up on all the 'fancy' stuff with UD3. When you actually look at the game mechanically and analyze it, it was incredibly exploitable. It was 100% a game designed for casual play. UD 3 is like taking the body of a lamborghini and then chucking a 2012 honda civic engine into it.

Your other points I won't argue, but I really can't stand when people try to claim UD3 had a better grappling system than EA UFC 2 & 3.

But yukes had a system that felt natural and also by their 3rd rendition they had a plethora of positions on the ground and cage seated which are pivotal parts of mma. Instead we got a clinch that while it looks very good it had over unders and double unders stripped from it and its main purpose is to just dirty box. Ud3 is the blueprint because of the depth in the game from the tutorials to the modes to the animation. Everyone would of been more happy with pride mode then fighting in a back yard.

[RollTideRoll0929]

Re: Appeal to developers

But yukes had a system that felt natural and also by their 3rd rendition they had a plethora of positions on the ground and cage seated which are pivotal parts of mma. Instead we got a clinch that while it looks very good it had over unders and double unders stripped from it and its main purpose is to just dirty box. Ud3 is the blueprint because of the depth in the game from the tutorials to the modes to the animation. Everyone would of been more happy with pride mode then fighting in a back yard.

UD3 had that rare combination of being simple yet deep. The controls were simple to grasp but the gameplay was complex and deep. I never have been able to really get down blocking transitions in the EA UFC games. I get how it works but you almost have to guess which way they are transitioning and march their input while holding block, where in UD3 you just hold away with the right analog. Was simple yet may things factored into the success of transition block and it would only work for so long, but would buy you time to either attempt a sub or transition into a better position. In UFC 3, I'd get taken down and if I tried to transition into a better position or attempt to get up, 90% of the time they would block it, eating a huge piece of my stamina, so I would have to wait for my stamina to refill, meanwhile eating several punches. If I went for another transition before refilling stamina I'd be completely depleted, which pretty much means I'd get subbed. Only option is sit there and wait for the stamina to refill and keep eating strikes.

[Counter Punch]

Re: Appeal to developers

What exactly is your definition of a casual? I've spent thousands upon thousands of hours across all mma games since UD 2009. Sim fighting games are pretty much all I play. The ones I play most are UD3 and Fight Night Champion. I still play UFC 3 maybe once a week to a couple times a month because it's the only MMA game I can play competitively against other players. I would say "casual" players are definitely playing the newest shiniest game not UD3, lol.

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I don’t mean casual as an insult. I mean people that want to pick up and play, and maybe over time learn some deeper mechanics, but ultimately start having fun right away. As long as a game is fun to play, they don’t really care if it’s fun to watch or if it accurately represents the sport.

If you think UD3 and fight night champion are representative of their respective sports, we’ll just have to disagree, because neither of those are sim games. They are both constant immersion breaking cheese fests. I’ve played every UFC and fight night game religiously since Dreamcast and PS2. I understand the appeal and fun of the UD and FN series. I saw their improvements with each iteration, and there are a lot of things they do well. But everything about them is super arcadish and dated. They were better than UFC 1 and 2, but they can’t hold a candle to UFC 3, and I have tons of issues with UFC 3.

Call me crazy, but I think a game should be fun to watch and to play and shouldn’t constantly kill immersion and make me think “that would never happen”.

[TheUFCVeteran]

Re: Appeal to developers

I don’t mean casual as an insult. I mean people that want to pick up and play, and maybe over time learn some deeper mechanics, but ultimately start having fun right away. As long as a game is fun to play, they don’t really care if it’s fun to watch or if it accurately represents the sport.

If you think UD3 and fight night champion are representative of their respective sports, we’ll just have to disagree, because neither of those are sim games. They are both constant immersion breaking cheese fests. I’ve played every UFC and fight night game religiously since Dreamcast and PS2. I understand the appeal and fun of the UD and FN series. I saw their improvements with each iteration, and there are a lot of things they do well. But everything about them is super arcadish and dated. They were better than UFC 1 and 2, but they can’t hold a candle to UFC 3, and I have tons of issues with UFC 3.

Call me crazy, but I think a game should be fun to watch and to play and shouldn’t constantly kill immersion and make me think “that would never happen”.

Man, UFC 3 is the game for me which always breaks immersion, from the ground game to the weak looking shots (there's never any follow through for strikes in UFC 3, nor do they do enough damage). Do you have any examples of immersion breaking moments in Undisputed 3?

The cage elbow was broken, and punch flick reversals were an exploit, both were due to be fixed by they never got to push the patch out before they shut down.

The animations might not look as smooth as UFC 3, specifically the hooks, but combos flow beautifully and look fantastic in my opinion. Maybe it comes down to what you're looking for in an MMA game.

Are you looking for an MMA game that looks super realistic in terms of how the animation/movement flows but plays kinda sloppy/sluggish, or one that looks good, but plays like a dream? Personally, I'm in the latter camp but I know there are some who love the fluid look of UFC 3. I love watching UD3 almost as much as I love playing it. I don't get that same feeling with UFC 3, but that's just me.

[Counter Punch]

Re: Appeal to developers

Man, UFC 3 is the game for me which always breaks immersion, from the ground game to the weak looking shots (there's never any follow through for strikes in UFC 3, nor do they do enough damage). Do you have any examples of immersion breaking moments in Undisputed 3?

The cage elbow was broken, and punch flick reversals were an exploit, both were due to be fixed by they never got to push the patch out before they shut down.

The animations might not look as smooth as UFC 3, specifically the hooks, but combos flow beautifully and look fantastic in my opinion. Maybe it comes down to what you're looking for in an MMA game.

Are you looking for an MMA game that looks super realistic in terms of how the animation/movement flows but plays kinda sloppy/sluggish, or one that looks good, but plays like a dream? Personally, I'm in the latter camp but I know there are some who love the fluid look of UFC 3. I love watching UD3 almost as much as I love playing it. I don't get that same feeling with UFC 3, but that's just me.

The entire video I posted is an example of what I’m talking about. If you like watching UD3 that’s cool, everyone has different tastes and perspectives on things. It just seems like rock em sock em robots to me (which is what UFC 3 became after all the patches). I get your criticism of UFC 3, I agree with pretty much all of what you said about it, but UFC3 was a good foundation for what I was hoping would be a an amazing MMA game at launch.

I actually think the UFC 3 beta was far far far better game IN SOME CRITICAL WAYS than the final game ended up being, even though some improvements were made. I’ve just never had more fun than I had playing the UFC 3 beta and it came closer to capturing the spirit of an actually UFC fight than any game ever.

I guess what I’m saying is that you would have to change far less about UFC 3 to make it a satisfying MMA simulation than you would have to change about UD3.

[RollTideRoll0929]

Re: Appeal to developers

Hmmm.....I guess my memory is getting foggy in my old age......I could have swore that UFC 3 beta was a massive glitchy cluster@#$% and that it was improved significantly in the final build but I could be mistaken. I do seem to recall one thing though, either the beta or the final build pre patch seemed to have awesome stopping power.... .. power strikes like head kicks and overhand punches were deadly and if you swayed into one you were pretty much done. I do recall they toned this down.......alot.. ....and eventually you had to eat/land a good bit of strikes to get a KO. Other than that I thought in the beta the animations were super janky and controls super unresponsive.......hey it's been like 3 years so I may not be remembering correctly but I do know I was so unimpressed that I canceled my preorder after the beta and ended up buying it a couple weeks after launch

[Counter Punch]

Re: Appeal to developers

Hmmm.....I guess my memory is getting foggy in my old age......I could have swore that UFC 3 beta was a massive glitchy cluster@#$% and that it was improved significantly in the final build but I could be mistaken. I do seem to recall one thing though, either the beta or the final build pre patch seemed to have awesome stopping power.... .. power strikes like head kicks and overhand punches were deadly and if you swayed into one you were pretty much done. I do recall they toned this down.......alot.. ....and eventually you had to eat/land a good bit of strikes to get a KO. Other than that I thought in the beta the animations were super janky and controls super unresponsive.......hey it's been like 3 years so I may not be remembering correctly but I do know I was so unimpressed that I canceled my preorder after the beta and ended up buying it a couple weeks after launch

Apparently there was some “glitch” that made stopping power and damage more severe in the beta. I personally loved and begged them to change it back after they fixed it. It pretty much ruined the game for me after. That and the way that head movement and countering was nerfed. Constant danger and 1 shot KO power are as essential to me in an MMA game as the ability to dribble in a basketball game.