It is so unrealistic!

[ryangil23]

Re: It is so unrealistic!

That’s my point. It shouldn’t have to be non-functional before you can be compensated for a faulty product. Can you imagine if every other industry was like this? Would be like saying your food has to be inedible before you can send it back or you can’t send an item of clothing back unless it’s physically impossible to wear it.

[Irish0331]

Re: It is so unrealistic!

For example, a more realistic MMA game would mean that single strikes do way more damage than they do now. I'm talking about eating 4-5 clean strikes could end the fight. Or taking 1-2 power punches could get a flash KO.

You and I may want this but i'd say 80% of the casual community wouldn't like it because they'd be getting knocked out within seconds and would get discouraged from playing. Instead of learning to pick shots and being careful, they'll simply quit.

This is the battle we (and the devs) are fighting.

I gotta agree 100%. I don't think its just casuals who wouldn't like a true to life sim. Honestly, I know that i'd be frustrated if I was getting kayoed in the first round every time. We have to be honest here, even the best of the best in this game eat repeated shots that would be fight enders in real life. If they went full on authenticity, i cant see getting through a whole round without eating a fight ending shot.

[bcelts]

Re: It is so unrealistic!

I stated I would like to have another mode that is more sim like. Not totally sim but more sim like. More realistic than what we have now. Strikes should definitely not be so accurate. That might help as well.

[Irish0331]

Re: It is so unrealistic!

I stated I would like to have another mode that is more sim like. Not totally sim but more sim like. More realistic than what we have now.

I remember UD3 having sim mode. I always played that mode, but i dont recall what the differences were between sim and casual modes. I'd be fine with a sim mode option. Itd be interesting to see what their idea of sim would be.

Not being able to clinch fight/grind against the cage is massive issue. Sucks ALOT of realism out of the game not being able to do that.

[TheShizNo1]

Re: It is so unrealistic!

I remember UD3 having sim mode. I always played that mode, but i dont recall what the differences were between sim and casual modes. I'd be fine with a sim mode option. Itd be interesting to see what their idea of sim would be.



Not being able to clinch fight/grind against the cage is massive issue. Sucks ALOT of realism out of the game not being able to do that.

I'm pretty sure Sim was mainly stamina/damage recovery

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[EarvGotti]

Re: It is so unrealistic!

I stated I would like to have another mode that is more sim like. Not totally sim but more sim like. More realistic than what we have now. Strikes should definitely not be so accurate. That might help as well.

I know NBA 2K devs have the same problem and they claimed they don't want to split the player base because it will pull their gameplay resources into too many different areas.

One thing i hope for in UFC 5 is an Online Gym/Fight Camp mode. Similar to what we had in Fight Night Champion. Allow us to create an actual gym, add members, change the settings between "Arcade, Competitive, Sim" and run tournaments directly through the gym.

Madden does this pretty well with their Online Franchise, so does NBA 2K.

[TheUFCVeteran]

Re: It is so unrealistic!

I remember UD3 having sim mode. I always played that mode, but i dont recall what the differences were between sim and casual modes. I'd be fine with a sim mode option. Itd be interesting to see what their idea of sim would be.

Not being able to clinch fight/grind against the cage is massive issue. Sucks ALOT of realism out of the game not being able to do that.

Much more stamina drained for each strike, much more damage for each strike.

[Blackman316]

Re: It is so unrealistic!

Not being able to clinch fight/grind against the cage is massive issue. Sucks ALOT of realism out of the game not being able to do that.

I'd personally like a more sim-based approach, but it mustn't complicate the controls any more.

I miss imposing the clinch when I feel like it. Maybe I suck but I can't hold onto it for longer than one punch in EAUFC4 if the opponent doesn't want to.

I get that they're trying to make it playable for the majority of players. Sure. It's EA. It makes sense. We must be the minority that's getting hurt by it. But they'll still get the people disconnecting when the fight hits the ground. I doubt that's gone.


As for the stamina issues: there's the sliders. I feel they are a very nice addition to the series in the latest iterations. If they weren't there I'd join the people complaining.

[aholbert32]

Re: It is so unrealistic!

I could go on with the many things wrong with it such as submissions finishing before the bar is even full, being KOd in ground and pound when you actually framed the hook (not through block), ground and pound defence being flat out unresponsive at times, glitchy back drags from the cage, etc.

The fact that no other games are refunded, except cyberpunk which is a really high bar if that’s what it takes, is part of the reason why people are getting more frustrated with the industry. White hot hatred or however it was put above is too far but you can’t expect to take people’s money and then get all pissy when people criticise a product that has many flaws when they don’t even have the option of a refund, exchange or even a goodwill gesture. “Just go and play ufc 3” isn’t going to cut it I’m afraid.

Yeah but you guys are putting them in a position where they cant win. Lets accept one thing:

THE GAME ISNT DESIGNED FOR PEOPLE WHO GO TO OS OR THE UFC DISCORD AND PLAY THE GAME. ITS TARGETED FOR CASUAL FANS WHO DONT GIVE A **** ABOUT THINGS LIKE CAGE CONTROL.

The game isnt designed for people like you or me that are hardcore fans of the sport.

Once we accept that fact, what are they supposed to do when it comes to communication? Take Skynet.

Now I'm biased when it comes to him. He is one of the few devs on that team that has been consistently responsive during the 5 yrs I've been on the team. From an AI/Realism perspective, he has been willing to sit down with me and walk me through all of the things that goes into AI. He's been honest about the things the team could do and couldnt do. He is the only reasons people like me or Aero or Trust are able to regularly provide real input when it comes to the offline part of this game.

So say you are Skynet. You could do what 99% of the UFC devs do and thats lurk. Many of them see your posts on OS or Reddit or the Discord. They see everything you are writing....but they dont interact because alot of the interactions are just flat out negative (I'm not saying that they arent justified).

If you do that, people will complain about the devs being unresponsive.

If he chooses to interact with users, he is guaranteed to interact with that negativity...and thats fine too.

The issue I have is that people can **** on the devs (I see way more of this on Reddit and the Discord) but when a dev says "If you dont like the direction of 4...stick w/ 3"...thats a problem?

Thats so weird to me.

I'm not defending 4. I still play it but overall I'm very disappointed with the direction of the series. I'm just a little dumbfounded that the "customer" is allowed to **** all over his (and his colleagues) work and thats fine but if he fires back....thats over the line?

[allBthere]

Re: It is so unrealistic!

Yeah but you guys are putting them in a position where they cant win. Lets accept one thing:

THE GAME ISNT DESIGNED FOR PEOPLE WHO GO TO OS OR THE UFC DISCORD AND PLAY THE GAME. ITS TARGETED FOR CASUAL FANS WHO DONT GIVE A **** ABOUT THINGS LIKE CAGE CONTROL.

The game isnt designed for people like you or me that are hardcore fans of the sport.

I'm only here to say that I agree about letting dev's fire back, that's fine, I'm even fine with them choosing whatever direction they want to go in (they are the ones making it after all), I'll even go as far to say it would likely be better if they didn't listen at all assuming they hired the right people. UFC undisputed got worse after listening to the community as an example by adding energy bars and eliminating flash KO's.

BUT

I don't agree with some people that are making a bunch of assumptions as it relates to sim gameplay, hardcore vs casual debate. IF you look at the sports-gaming landscape, the most popular games are 'sim' even within EA if you look at FIFA. You have The Show, 2k, FIFA and other peripheral titles (and Madden! almost forgot) ... they are the highest selling sports titles and continue to add complexity over time. So anyone claiming that adding a sim mode or gearing it more that way overall would hurt sales i don't see that argument. They could put out a pure arcade title if that were the case and make it more fun sort of like 2k's battlegrounds or something of that nature.

I do think most of it is because it's EA, seriously, I've worked in TV too and you can see this at networks and it comes down to who the managers are and the corporate culture and philosophy - otherwise all games would be equal (network's and productions too). I think EA has questionable ability to identify talent in a variety of situations (BRIZZO ANYONE) and their technology seems weird to me (too many detail examples to get into here) and their corporate culture has always seemed toxic to me. (let's look at what happened to mass effect as well lol). They just seem to make series of decisions that don't benefit the fans.

The reality is fans of the sport have their games being made by the wrong company - it's just as simple as that to me. EA has not been able to keep me as a returning customer since the early to mid 90s. I don't boycott, I've tried to enjoy, I just can't - I've bought all the boxing games, Madden 2007, 2012, some Live's along the way and couple of FIFA's and an NHL there's just a common theme of underperforming all across the board - that isn't about to change anytime soon.

[TheShizNo1]

Re: It is so unrealistic!

I have plenty of members in the FIFA, Madden and 2K communities that would strongly disagree about those games being sim.

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[aholbert32]

Re: It is so unrealistic!

I'm only here to say that I agree about letting dev's fire back, that's fine, I'm even fine with them choosing whatever direction they want to go in (they are the ones making it after all), I'll even go as far to say it would likely be better if they didn't listen at all assuming they hired the right people. UFC undisputed got worse after listening to the community as an example by adding energy bars and eliminating flash KO's.

BUT

I don't agree with some people that are making a bunch of assumptions as it relates to sim gameplay, hardcore vs casual debate. IF you look at the sports-gaming landscape, the most popular games are 'sim' even within EA if you look at FIFA. You have The Show, 2k, FIFA and other peripheral titles (and Madden! almost forgot) ... they are the highest selling sports titles and continue to add complexity over time. So anyone claiming that adding a sim mode or gearing it more that way overall would hurt sales i don't see that argument. They could put out a pure arcade title if that were the case and make it more fun sort of like 2k's battlegrounds or something of that nature.

I do think most of it is because it's EA, seriously, I've worked in TV too and you can see this at networks and it comes down to who the managers are and the corporate culture and philosophy - otherwise all games would be equal (network's and productions too). I think EA has questionable ability to identify talent in a variety of situations (BRIZZO ANYONE) and their technology seems weird to me (too many detail examples to get into here) and their corporate culture has always seemed toxic to me. (let's look at what happened to mass effect as well lol). They just seem to make series of decisions that don't benefit the fans.

The reality is fans of the sport have their games being made by the wrong company - it's just as simple as that to me. EA has not been able to keep me as a returning customer since the early to mid 90s. I don't boycott, I've tried to enjoy, I just can't - I've bought all the boxing games, Madden 2007, 2012, some Live's along the way and couple of FIFA's and an NHL there's just a common theme of underperforming all across the board - that isn't about to change anytime soon.

Fifa doesnt even have fouls. I own the game on the PC and PS5 and that dev team has eliminated fouls which makes it rare to get set pieces in that game. I can only play the PC version and thats with a gameplay mod. I dont think you will find many people who call Fifa "sim"

Same goes with Madden. I literally am still playing Madden 20 because we havent found a way to mod 21 and the game is unplayable from a sim perspective without mods.

I love NBA 2k and its about as close as you can get from a sim perspectives but even this year they leaned toward the online comp and casual side. You can literally run unstoppable pick and rolls on that game and the devs have done nothing to fix that.

None of this defends the path that the UFC devs have taken but to argue that the majority of top sports games (ESPECIALLY EA SPORTS GAMES) have taken a "sim" approach is completely false.

[TheUFCVeteran]

Re: It is so unrealistic!

I'm only here to say that I agree about letting dev's fire back, that's fine, I'm even fine with them choosing whatever direction they want to go in (they are the ones making it after all), I'll even go as far to say it would likely be better if they didn't listen at all assuming they hired the right people. UFC undisputed got worse after listening to the community as an example by adding energy bars and eliminating flash KO's.

Just curious, how do you mean? UD3 has flash KO’s, just that they can only happen mid-strike. And energy bars, do you mean the stamina bar? Just a little confused, that’s all.

[ryangil23]

Re: It is so unrealistic!

Yeah but you guys are putting them in a position where they cant win. Lets accept one thing:

THE GAME ISNT DESIGNED FOR PEOPLE WHO GO TO OS OR THE UFC DISCORD AND PLAY THE GAME. ITS TARGETED FOR CASUAL FANS WHO DONT GIVE A **** ABOUT THINGS LIKE CAGE CONTROL.

The game isnt designed for people like you or me that are hardcore fans of the sport.

Once we accept that fact, what are they supposed to do when it comes to communication? Take Skynet.

Now I'm biased when it comes to him. He is one of the few devs on that team that has been consistently responsive during the 5 yrs I've been on the team. From an AI/Realism perspective, he has been willing to sit down with me and walk me through all of the things that goes into AI. He's been honest about the things the team could do and couldnt do. He is the only reasons people like me or Aero or Trust are able to regularly provide real input when it comes to the offline part of this game.

So say you are Skynet. You could do what 99% of the UFC devs do and thats lurk. Many of them see your posts on OS or Reddit or the Discord. They see everything you are writing....but they dont interact because alot of the interactions are just flat out negative (I'm not saying that they arent justified).

If you do that, people will complain about the devs being unresponsive.

If he chooses to interact with users, he is guaranteed to interact with that negativity...and thats fine too.

The issue I have is that people can **** on the devs (I see way more of this on Reddit and the Discord) but when a dev says "If you dont like the direction of 4...stick w/ 3"...thats a problem?

Thats so weird to me.

I'm not defending 4. I still play it but overall I'm very disappointed with the direction of the series. I'm just a little dumbfounded that the "customer" is allowed to **** all over his (and his colleagues) work and thats fine but if he fires back....thats over the line?

Thing is some of the criticisms on the discord were about certain parts not even working correctly. It wasn’t a matter of just not liking it. It’s like getting a phone upgrade and when you complain about some things not working correctly you are told to just use your old phone.

It’s one thing if you just don’t like something but it works and talking about things that don’t work. It’s like ordering food that’s spicy and you just don’t enjoy it but it’s supposed to be spicy. That’s on you. If it’s overcooked/undercooked, something in it is off then that’s a different story.

[tomitomitomi]

Re: It is so unrealistic!

IF you look at the sports-gaming landscape, the most popular games are 'sim' even within EA if you look at FIFA.

FIFA is the Call of Duty of football games. The consensus among football fans is that PES is the football sim.

That’s my point. It shouldn’t have to be non-functional before you can be compensated for a faulty product. Can you imagine if every other industry was like this? Would be like saying your food has to be inedible before you can send it back or you can’t send an item of clothing back unless it’s physically impossible to wear it.

You're not getting a refund if you complain after finishing the whole meal either. If refund policies were as lax as you want them to be, what is stopping people from beating a game in ten hours then demanding a refund because they found bugs? It's like ordering an expensive steak then asking for refund after you gulped it because you thought it was overcooked.

I'd imagine digital products are a grey area in general because of that and how hardware can impact the performance. For example, sometimes your FPS may drop because your hardware doesn't ventilate properly. Obviously you were referring to common UFC 4 bugs that happen to everyone but the point is that the refund policy of PC digital game stores is that you can only get a refund before 2 hours of playtime or 2 weeks of purchase date because that should be enough time to determine whether the game actually works.

Again, you've played UFC 4 for 8 months and hundreds of hours. It is completely unreasonable to demand a refund anymore because of minor (=the game isn't completely unplayable) gameplay bugs. The closest thing to a game-breaking bug that is the weird invisible characters glitch when the game launched but it only affected one match when it happened and didn't ruin the whole software.