UFC 128: Shogun vs. Jones - 3/19 in NJ

[aholbert32]

Re: UFC 128: Shogun vs. Jones - 3/19 in NJ

If you guys thought Rua was too slow to counter Jones' wild throws, what do you think Rampage will be able to do. Haha.

I think it comes down to how Jones looks against Evans.

Evans knows the kid better than anyone, Evans is a strong wrestler and has heavy hands. So we'll see how Jones looks against Evans.

Rampage aint gonna do a damn thing. I will wager any sum of money on that.

Machida aint gonna do a damn thing.

Exactly who else in that division still makes it "stacked"? Forrest? Coutoure? The division is not stacked.

I dont think Rampage will win either but comparing his fight to the Rua fight isnt fair. Jones wont take and keep Rampage down like he did Rua. Elite wrestlers (Evans and Henderson) havent been able to keep him down like Jones does. Jones does most of his damage on the ground. He finished Rua on his fight but that was after almost 12 minutes of grinding him on the ground. I'm not sure he will be able to do that to Rampage.

The biggest think is we still havent seen Jones take a solid shot and thats where the Lesner comparisons come through. With guys with power like Evans and Rampage it only takes one punch. Even in his fight against Evans, Rampage damn near won the fight in the third by anding a punch after being out wrestled in the first two rounds. Is it likely to happen? Maybe not but it only takes one shot.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: UFC 128: Shogun vs. Jones - 3/19 in NJ

I dont think Rampage will win either but comparing his fight to the Rua fight isnt fair. Jones wont take and keep Rampage down like he did Rua. Elite wrestlers (Evans and Henderson) havent been able to keep him down like Jones does. Jones does most of his damage on the ground. He finished Rua on his fight but that was after almost 12 minutes of grinding him on the ground. I'm not sure he will be able to do that to Rampage.

The biggest think is we still havent seen Jones take a solid shot and thats where the Lesner comparisons come through. With guys with power like Evans and Rampage it only takes one punch. Even in his fight against Evans, Rampage damn near won the fight in the third by anding a punch after being out wrestled in the first two rounds. Is it likely to happen? Maybe not but it only takes one shot.

Is Rampage really that much of a better wrestler than Hammill/Bader? I don't think so. Jones would get Page to the mat at some point. Keeping him down maybe not as much as he did to Rua, but enough.

As far as Lesnar comparison, now that is definitely unfair. Lesnar's stand up is non existent. Not only does he have a questionable chin but he also has a tendency to let multiple flush shots hit him.

With Jones you're definitely not going to see that as his stand up is pretty solid. Nobody has hit him yet, but just as any other fighter in the world, your chin is only so strong, if you get hit you're probably going down. So IMO that factor matters little to me.

Like I said, Evans will be a huge indication of how "unbeatable" Jones can really be. Evans knows this guy better than anyone and he is an elite wrestler himself who is athletic and also has knock out power. We'll see a true 2nd test in Evans. If Jones runs through him... then I really don't see anyone messing with Jones.

[Beantown]

Re: UFC 128: Shogun vs. Jones - 3/19 in NJ

Jones is on indefinite medical suspension as of now, pending test results on his right hand.

Rua is suspended 60 days for the TKO and then indefinitely after that pending scans of his head.

Schaub is out 60 days for facial lacerations, and indefinitely pending test results on his facial/orbital bones.

Shalorus is out 60 days for the TKO by Miller.

Cro Cop is out 30 days, and then indefinitely pending results.

Medical suspension round-up.

[Phillmattic]

Re: UFC 128: Shogun vs. Jones - 3/19 in NJ

Is Rampage really that much of a better wrestler than Hammill/Bader? I don't think so. Jones would get Page to the mat at some point. Keeping him down maybe not as much as he did to Rua, but enough.

As far as Lesnar comparison, now that is definitely unfair. Lesnar's stand up is non existent. Not only does he have a questionable chin but he also has a tendency to let multiple flush shots hit him.

With Jones you're definitely not going to see that as his stand up is pretty solid. Nobody has hit him yet, but just as any other fighter in the world, your chin is only so strong, if you get hit you're probably going down. So IMO that factor matters little to me.

Like I said, Evans will be a huge indication of how "unbeatable" Jones can really be. Evans knows this guy better than anyone and he is an elite wrestler himself who is athletic and also has knock out power. We'll see a true 2nd test in Evans. If Jones runs through him... then I really don't see anyone messing with Jones.

What makes Rampage an interesting fight is that he defends takedowns well and he is difficult to control. Rampage has decent size and is really strong so it would be interesting to see if Jones would be able to handle him in the clinch as easily as he has against his other opponents. Rampage may be a lot more motivated now and he showed up against Machida in really great shape.

I wouldn't count Machida out either. Machida doesn't take a lot of damage and also is really effective in the clinch. He also seems to understand where his weaknesses are and is adapting his style to be even more effective in MMA.

Rashad is a very intelligent fighter and is very well rounded. He is also the best athlete Jones will have faced yet, we saw how quick he is with his transitions from striking to wrestling.

I think all three of those fights are still interesting match-ups for Jones.

[aholbert32]

Re: UFC 128: Shogun vs. Jones - 3/19 in NJ

Is Rampage really that much of a better wrestler than Hammill/Bader? I don't think so. Jones would get Page to the mat at some point. Keeping him down maybe not as much as he did to Rua, but enough.

As far as Lesnar comparison, now that is definitely unfair. Lesnar's stand up is non existent. Not only does he have a questionable chin but he also has a tendency to let multiple flush shots hit him.

With Jones you're definitely not going to see that as his stand up is pretty solid. Nobody has hit him yet, but just as any other fighter in the world, your chin is only so strong, if you get hit you're probably going down. So IMO that factor matters little to me.

Like I said, Evans will be a huge indication of how "unbeatable" Jones can really be. Evans knows this guy better than anyone and he is an elite wrestler himself who is athletic and also has knock out power. We'll see a true 2nd test in Evans. If Jones runs through him... then I really don't see anyone messing with Jones.

He's a better defensive wrestler than Hamill and Bader and a better striker than both. He has a much better defensive guard than both of them.

People werent complaining about Brock's standup until the Carwin fight. Against Mir, Herring and Couture, his stand up looked fine and he floored all three of them on their feet. Carwin was his first elite striker.

I got caught up with the Jones hype after this fight too but I calmed down after I thought about it I realized we did the same thing with Machida. Looking at it objectively, while Jones is clearly the better fighter, he was facing a Rua who was coming of knee surgery, hadnt fought in a yr and looked slow and sluggish like he did against Coleman and Forrest. Great win but I still think the division could give him trouble.

[Gotmadskillzson]

Re: UFC 128: Shogun vs. Jones - 3/19 in NJ

Rashaad a nothing for Jones and niether does Machida.....Why ? Because of the 84.5 inch reach Jones has.

Sure Mike Brown caught Faber, but Faber doesn't have a 84.5 inch reach either.

Sure Rashaad is a good wrestler, however Matt Hamill by far is the most powerful and broadest wrestler in the division and Jones was tossing him around.

Also lets not put too much stock into the well Rashaad was his training partner and knows him better then anybody. I mean Vitor Belfort was Anderson Silva's training partner for 10 years and still got KO'ed.

Rashaad is really nothing but a smaller version of Bader. And Machida....lets wait and see if he can get passed Randy 1st, which I doubt. Randy is just going to take him down over and over again.

Far as Anderson fighting Jones, that is a while off. Jones will have to fight Evans, Rampage, Forrest and maybe even Randy too if he doesn't retire again.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: UFC 128: Shogun vs. Jones - 3/19 in NJ

Don't get me wrong, I want to see Machida/Evans/Rampage all in the cage against Jones. I'm not officially crowning Jones yet, I just don't see any of the three winning outside of Evans. I am the last person to get caught up in hype.

The main things I'm getting at:

1. The division isn't what it used to be
2. Lesnar/Machida hype was really uncalled for
3. Jones isn't Lesnar/Machida, he is a much more complete fighter. A more explosive fighter. Unpredictable. More elite skills. Physically is a freak, athletic, tall, unique. All that wrapped into one

I know what happened when Lesnar/Machida first started getting hot. And I thought it was ridiculous in both cases.

Machida's skill set wasn't an unstoppable force. It's just that he hadn't been hit who counter punched. His skill set wasn't scary like Jones' is.

Lesnar from day 1 had no skill. Again, ridiculous how people built him up to be unbeatable, especially after he beat Carwin. He is just a grizzly bear who has to get on top of you to beat you. His skill set is lacking.

Jones is neither one of those guys.

Also, you can't just directly compare Vitor to Rashad. Consider the skill sets.

[Phillmattic]

Re: UFC 128: Shogun vs. Jones - 3/19 in NJ

Rashaad a nothing for Jones and niether does Machida.....Why ? Because of the 84.5 inch reach Jones has.

Sure Mike Brown caught Faber, but Faber doesn't have a 84.5 inch reach either.

Sure Rashaad is a good wrestler, however Matt Hamill by far is the most powerful and broadest wrestler in the division and Jones was tossing him around.

Also lets not put too much stock into the well Rashaad was his training partner and knows him better then anybody. I mean Vitor Belfort was Anderson Silva's training partner for 10 years and still got KO'ed.

Rashaad is really nothing but a smaller version of Bader. And Machida....lets wait and see if he can get passed Randy 1st, which I doubt. Randy is just going to take him down over and over again.

Far as Anderson fighting Jones, that is a while off. Jones will have to fight Evans, Rampage, Forrest and maybe even Randy too if he doesn't retire again.

The reach is a big factor but there are ways to get inside and it can have its disadvantages.

Hammill is a solid wrestler but him being the better than Rashad and the most powerful in the division is very debatable. Plus Hammill is nowhere near the mixed martial artist or athlete that Rashad is.

The statement about Vitor training with Silva for 10 years sounds ridiculous, I will have to look that up. I know he trained with Silva for a while when he was trying to get his career back on track but 10 years?

Rashad is not Ryan Bader.

[phillyfan23]

Re: UFC 128: Shogun vs. Jones - 3/19 in NJ

jones fought a great fight obviously, but shogun didn't look close to what he looked like vs machida in their fights. I'm not trying to make excuses, hell I wanted to see Jones win, but Shogun looked exactly how he looked like against Forrest. out of shape, ring rusted and just not totally there.

I really dont want to try to take credit away from Jones because he is a terrific fighter, but I feel the fight woulda been a lot closer had Shogun been in fighting shape.

I'm no shogun fan, but i do hope he recovers physically and recoups and one day has a chance with Jones again. I still think Jones wins that fight because Shogun has an awful take down defense.

That's why many are saying Machida will fare much better, he has amazing TDD, so I hope he recoups as well and has a crack at Jones.

but congrats Jon bones.....you definitely are a deserving champion.

[ex carrabba fan]

Re: UFC 128: Shogun vs. Jones - 3/19 in NJ

I'm eager to see how Machida looks against Randy. Really eager. Then of course Rampage as well.

[LingeringRegime]

Re: UFC 128: Shogun vs. Jones - 3/19 in NJ

I think Evans has the best chance of beating Jones than anyone else in the division. I still don't think he will win, but he is quick enough and his stand up is good enough to test the chin of Jones, if (and this is a big IF) he can get inside of that massive reach advantage.

I still would bet on Jones winning though.

[Gotmadskillzson]

Re: UFC 128: Shogun vs. Jones - 3/19 in NJ

Yeah Randy will definitely test the TDD of Machida, because gurantee Randy is going to try to take him down over and over again, then ground n pound him all fight long. And when he isn't ground n pounding him, he is going to dirty box him up against the cage.

So I really hope Machida improved his stand up and stop dropping his hands so low, because if not, I can easily see Randy KO'ng him.

[Gibbz]

Re: UFC 128: Shogun vs. Jones - 3/19 in NJ

So I really hope Machida improved his stand up and stop dropping his hands so low, because if not, I can easily see Randy KO'ng him.

I'd really love to see that.

[MizzouBravesFan]

Re: UFC 128: Shogun vs. Jones - 3/19 in NJ

I hate to say I told you so but I told you so...

Bones is just on another planet...can't believe the dude has only been training for 3 years.

Insane.

He looked an entire weight class bigger than Shogun, Rogan mentioned it during the fight....that's where his advantage is. His length and reach makes it hard for anyone to get close enough to do damage.

I really don't know anyone at 205 that can even find any weaknesses to exploit...he does such a great job keeping everyone on the outside and even if they get close in like Shogun did a couple of times, he makes them pay.

If Dana insists on GSP vs. Silva, I'd love to see Bones fight Mousasi after he MDK's Rashad and Rampage.

[p_rushing]

Re: UFC 128: Shogun vs. Jones - 3/19 in NJ

He looked an entire weight class bigger than Shogun, Rogan mentioned it during the fight....that's where his advantage is. His length and reach makes it hard for anyone to get close enough to do damage.

I really don't know anyone at 205 that can even find any weaknesses to exploit...he does such a great job keeping everyone on the outside and even if they get close in like Shogun did a couple of times, he makes them pay.

He looked huge. He also didn't look fat. He was all muscle and looked like a heavyweight out there. I see no way someone could beat him unless they get a lucky punch. He can stay outside of anyone's range and on the ground he can lay on and control anyone.